Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I don't know about 3100 writing MSDOS disk ('cause I haven't one)
    
    But I just wanted to point out the way I'm doing my transfer. I copy
    the stuff from Tape in my account and then transfer it over the net on
    a DECstation 220 running PCSA. (EXchange/net filename.lzh Nodename::C:)
    Then use Dos2Dos and there we go. No hassle at all (beside the limited 
    size of the files 1420 Blocks !)
    
    						Erik
    					

    Yeah, that's what I do but it IS a pain! I'd much rather be able to
    dump it straight onto an Amiga readable disk from the VAX. Also, as you
    say, there is a limitation on filesize.
    
    It would be neat to be able to cut out MS DOS format if possible. If
    it's PHYSICALLY possible, I'd consider trying to get hold of the source
    for one of the VMS->MS-DOS utilities and trying to get it to work for
    AmigaDos...
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    				Jamie.

	You said you're using EXCHANGE/NET. I'm using NFT.
	How can these two be compared. Which one is faster/more reliable.

	Up to now I had no probs using NFT, but if EXCHANGE is quicker maybe
	I should use this.

	The speed of NFT is quite well, but of course direct writing in
	AmigaDOS format would be great.

	cheerio
	hELMUT

    Writing straight on AmigaDos disk would be great, but won't you need an
    amiga disk drive or should any 3'5" disk drive do ?
    
    BTW, I don't find the VMS-MSDOS-AMIGA a painfull way, cause first you
    group the stuff on an VMS account, then on the PC harddisk and at the
    end of the day, just dump them on floppy disk. Doesn't take that
    much time and effort � I guess it's better anyway than downloading all
    the stuff thru a modem �
    
    					Erik

     I'd imagine that any 3.5" floppy drive would do,  am I right in saying
    that the only difference between an MS DOS disk and an AMIGA (or any
    other disk format) is the way the data is written on to the disk, and
    this is controllable with software?
    
    Is VAX2AMIGA.EXE a dream?
    
    
    Russell.
    

    What you need is MSH. This is a PD peice of software which allows the
    Amiga to read and write MSDOS disks directly. Then it's just a matter
    of using PCdisk on the VAXstation.
    I regularly copy LZH files from TAPE:: and import them onto a 3�" disk
    using PCdisk. Using MSH, I can unpack them straight from the MSDOS
    format disk straight into RAM or directly on to my other drive.
    
    If you do a dir/title="MSH" you'll see all the pain I went through
    trying to get this to work. 
    
    If, however, you stil have trouble, contact me and I'll send you a disk
    with it all already installed.
    
    Steven

    It sounds very much like MSH is what I want! The most pain I have with
    the PC route at the moment is that mostly I have zoomed or dms'ed files
    for the Amiga that I have to copy to a pc disk then use dos2dos to move
    the file from a pc disk to an amiga disk then use DMS or ZOOM to unpack
    the file etc etc (yawn!). If MSH would allow me to use DMS or ZOOM
    directly on the file on the PC disk, that's all I could ask for
    (except for a version of DMS/ZOOM that ran on VMS and wrote to the 3.5"
    disk in the correct way!!! (being a little greedy ;-) ) )...
    
    Thanks. I'll have a look at MSH.
    
    
    				Jamie.

    Jamie, what is DMS and ZOOM, and what is there purpose in life ?
    
    						Erik

    They're much the same as WARP. They'll compress a whole disk into a
    single file and vice versa. ZOOM is the best of all these though in the
    past it's been a little shaky. The latest version, which is currently
    in Beta test, seems to be very reliable (in fact, flawless!).
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    				Jamie.

    don't forget CrossDos as a means of transfering data. I think it is
    much better than the public domain programs available.
    								bill

    Does CrossDos allow you to access the DOS disks directly from the Amiga
    like MSH ?
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    				Jamie.

    Yes! I consider it a league ahead of msh in functionallity, utilities
    supplied,and support. I always felt those running MSH missed the boat.
    CrossDos has worked flawlessly for me. At around $40.00 list it's a
    bargain. I figure the guys that use MSH probably took the difference
    in price after they sent in the Shareware fee(you all sent it I hope)
    to buy aspirin. Actually it isen't all this bad because endless
    manhours were dumped into this product to get it to work when it first
    came around. CrossDos worked the first time I tried it.
    								bill

	Jamie,

	I'm using CrossDOS for quite a while, having no problems.
	When you mount a disk with the appropriate command you can 
	reference the disk either e.g. as DF0: or DI0:

	DF0: is for standard AmigaDOS floppies.
	DI0: is for 720K Messy-DOS where read/write access is possible.

	So you can insert a MS-DOS disk and then read/write from/to DI0:
	or you insert a AmigaDOS disk referencing it normal DF0:

	IMO this product is worth its money

	Cheerio
	hELMUT

    This is exactly the same as for MSH. The drive can be accessed as
    either DF1: or MSH:. Both drivers are present at the same time,
    therefore an AMIGAdos disk gets picked up by the AMIGA driver, and an
    MSDOS disk by the MSH driver. 
    
    It really is completely transparent and so far I've had no problems
    with it.
    
    Steven

    I downloaded and installed MSH about a week ago.  Version 1.5.  It took
    10 minutes to install on my Amiga and has worked fine since.  I am able
    to access the drive(s) as DFx: or MSH:   IBeM worked fine also though I
    do not have a use for it right now.
    
    md
    

    MSH: works fine, the best thing is it's shareware! I use it combined
    with dw (uploaded a few days ago by someone else). Messyfmt also seems
    to work.
    
    Greg

Re: .0

Whoa, take a look at this note. A wonderful sample, if you ever need one,
for your Disgression 101 course. ;-)

To answer the original question, no.
Unless the controller in the VS/DS systems is a lot more flexible than I
know, it just can't write the pretty unusal format of Amiga disks.

Sorry,

<CB>

    re -1 but can the Amiga format,write a vax compatable floppy?
    							bill

    RE .-1
    
    No, but take a look at Cross-Dos; it'll do it in MS-DOS format ;-)
    
    
    Seriously, though, MSH works great for what I want it for. If the 3100
    drives could have taken AmigaDos format then that would have been
    perfect but I'm happy to compromise ;-)
    
    Thanks to everyone.
    
    
    				Jamie.

    I own, use crossdos. If that is all that is required then what is the
    big deal. You put a 3.5 in the DecStation move data take the disk home
    put it in Amy and thats it. With the High Density drives available
    maybe we can get this support added. I can now currently read,write,
    format IBM,Amiga,Macintosh, and atari ST disks. I have no problem
    taking work home on a 720K 3.5 floppy. BTW I don't see this kind of
    file sharing on the other systems, aside from .IFF pics which gained
    a hold with Dpaint on the PC.

	Bill,

	you said that you can format disks under CrossDOS, then use
	it on the VS.
	I always have troubles when I try to use a CrossDOS-formatted disk
	on an I*M PeaCee or a clone.
	It's unusable.

	Do I miss something, or how can this problem be solved.
	Otherwise taking a formatted disk and using it works great and
	I never had any kind of problems.

	Ciao
	hELMUT

    There is a Gottya you need to be aware of. If you format a DS/DD disk
    with Crossdos at 720k it should work on the Decstation(100% rate here).
    If however you format a High Density 3.5(like we use here) on the amiga
    to 720k it formats fine. However when you insert it into a decstation
    the braindead thing thinks it is a HD floppy,and will give an error.
    You need to cover the opening on the floppy that says it's a HD floppy
    with tape or something. Then when you insert it the DecStation will
    see it as a 720k floppy. You can format 720k on the workstation and
    the Amiga will read it fine with CrossDos. If you still have problems
    make sure you using the right format utility with CrossDos.(MQD9)
    								bill

    re: VMS EXCHANGE/NET vs. DOS NFT differences
    
    With NFT you have to know if the binary file you want to copy is in
    STREAM_LF or not, so that you will know if you need to use the /BLOCK.
    
    EXCHANGE/NET has a switch, /TRANSFER_MODE=AUTO, which will handle that
    automatically.
    
    I use NFT mostly, because I'm usually at the pc make the floppies
    anyway.  But that AUTO mode can be useful when you grab a bunch of
    files over the net and they aren't all stream_lf.
    
    Dave

What is so odd about the Amiga floppy format that you could not get 
a VAXstation floppy to write to it ? The timing is all regular unlike
a MAC drive. 

Am I missing something here ? 

regards
	Mike

p.s. I'd happy using cross-dos or msh but am curious.

Re: .20

Yes, I suppose an Amiga could write whatever format the VAX/DECstations
are using for their disks. However you would likely need the MSH or CrossDOS
sources, a detailed description of the DEC format and _some_ time. ;-)


Re: .25

There are no physical sectors on an Amiga floppy, just logical ones.
That is, a large 512*11 bytes sector per track and a "huge" sync gap.

Since the drives in the VAX/DECstations are controlled by standard 
controller chips (and via SCSI, at least with the DECstations) you
just don't have the options, flexibility and direct control of
the floppy that the Amiga custom chips give you.

Cheers,

<CB>

Thanks for the explanation <CB>.

Mike