Conference hydra::amiga_v1

>    	1.)  If I have Amigaterm, why would I have to use Kermit, Polycom
>    	     or Xmodem for moving or transferring files?

	Xmodem and Kermit are file transfer protocals. They are used to
	transfer binary files over the phone and minimize errors from
	noise.

>    	2.)  I don't understand what people mean by Arcing things. 
>    	     Is this another file transfer protocol?

	ARC takes files, and does 2 things to them.  1) It allows you
	to put related files into one big file, kinda like a VMS saveset.
	The second thing that it does is, it makes the collection of those
	files to be a LOT smaller. I've seen them average about 75% smaller.

>    	3.)  I inherited some files with the PC that appear to be ARC
>    	     files (fred.arc etc.).  If these are digitized video files
>    	     like I suspect, how can I get these files to appear on
>    	     my screen.

	I don't know about these.  Are they amiga files? if so, you need
	a utility that will show them.  I've seen about eleventy-million of
	them, so they do exist.  Someone should have one online here somewhere.

>    	4.)  Does anybody know I can backorder previous issues of the
>    	     Amiga World Magazine?  I'm primarily interested in the
>    	     December 87 issue and the Special Issue Reference Guide.

	Look in the magazine, they always have a section about ordering back-
	issues.
    
>    That's all I can think of for now, but I'll have more later on.
>    Thanks for listening.
>    
>    							Keith Bague

				Rob

    In other words, you're saying that Amigaterm is only good for Ascii
    files?
    
    						Keith Bague

    I really don't know.  Does Amigaterm do Xmodem?  If so, then, yes,
    you can use it for other types of file transfers besides ascii.
    If it don't, you'll have to get a hold of either Dave Wecker's VT100
    or (? forgot his first name) Leibow's Smokey.  Both of these allow
    you to do XMODEM and KERMIT.
    
    			Rob

    AmigaTerm came with the 1200RS CBM modem I bought.  Although it
    does a fairly good impersonation of a VT100, it does not support
    XMODEM or KERMIT.
    
    Mike Leibow's VT200 (Smokey) is a real gem (no pun intended), and
    it's free.
    
    Ed.
    

    OK, I'll bite, but being new to this:
    	1.)  How do I contact Mike Leibow?
    	2.)  Can I use Amigaterm to pull this "VT200" over or is this
             a case where it would have to done by sending a mini floppy?
    	3.)  Does Mike Leibow's "VT200" support XMODEM and KERMIT?
    	4.)  Is XMODEM and KERMIT like POLYCOM where both systems must
    	     have it in order to effect a transfer of a file?

>    	1.)  How do I contact Mike Leibow?

If it's VT200 you want, just get it from the net 

>    	2.)  Can I use Amigaterm to pull this "VT200" over or is this
             a case where it would have to done by sending a mini floppy?

Don't know about AmigaTerm, but if it can do IMAGE mode transfers, it
should work. I don't know what runs on the VAX side?? (Kermit, Xmodem?)


>    	3.)  Does Mike Leibow's "VT200" support XMODEM and KERMIT?

Sure Does!


>    	4.)  Is XMODEM and KERMIT like POLYCOM where both systems must
    	     have it in order to effect a transfer of a file?

Sure is. But VAX versions of both can be had for a simple COPY.

By the way, if AmigaTerm dosen't do the trick, send me a blank floppy and
I'll copy it for you.

John

    this discussion got me thinking of exactly what kind of tools/doc
    a "naieve" user need to get in order to really start exploring...
    
    My list.....ARC
    		Zoo
    		Vtx00
    		Shell
    		UUxxCODE (de/en)
    		conman/mach15/??
    		popcli
    		??????????
    
    Others???
    
    Maybe we could put together a disk like this, and send it out to
    those in need as they join the ranks of the "informed" PC users
    ;-)
    
    scott
    

    Thanks, I hope I'm not boring the heck out of you guys.  More
    questions:
    	1.)  What do mean by "getting it off the net"?  Do you mean
    	     USENET?  Can you give me some simple instructions on how
    	     to do this? (bbs, node name, telephone #s, whatever, etc)
    	2.)  What do people mean by "a file archived at so & so"?  Is
    	     this any reference to the VAX ARCHIVE package that backs
    	     up files in disuse to a backup tape?  In any case, how
    	     can I retrieve these files?
    
    						Thanks for you patience,
    						Keith Bague

    RE: .8
    
    Hey, I really appreciate any offers of help from you guys (and gals)!
    I look forward to the day when all the discourse I see flying
    around the conference makes as much sense to me as it does to you.
    In the meantime, please bear with me until I can come up to speed.
    
    							Keith Bague

There are a bunch of other notes her on this same thing, but in sumery (sort
of)

ARC (and Zoo, and UUxxCODE) are general PC utilities for packing a bunch
of files into one file for uploading and downloading. These utilities
generally do data compression to make files sometimes 50-75% smaller!

So people here pack their goodies into (for example) an ARC file (which
might be called AMEOBA.ARC) and upload it from Amiga to VAX. Now anyone
here in DEC can copy this ARC file to thier account, and (usually using a
modem) download it to thier amiga, and then un pack the files with the ARC
utility.

This doesn't tell you HOW to do this, search the notes here for in depth
stuff. To give you an idea of whats availiable, look in some of
these directories:

mvcad3::user0:[Amiga.*]
COOKIE::DISK$GZ_2:[WECKER.AMIGA]
ROZETT::AMIGA:
PAULY"AMIGA"::
OASIS2""::HSC000$DUA7:[BERNARD.AMIGA]
WJG::AMIGA:


For example, type:

	 $ DIR mvcad3::user0:[Amiga.*]

and get ready with the HOLD SCREEN key!!!


John

In case your new to notes, type NOTES> DIR /TITLE=piece_of_topic

ex. NOTES> DIR /TITLE=ARC

will list all notes in this conference with the characters "ARC" in thier
title.


Have fun !

The "network" is, of course, DECnet.  If you hunt around in this conference,
you will see many instances of people who have uploaded stuff they have
acquired into world-readable directories on their VAXes.  You need only
$ COPY from the name they give to your own directory, and then use
KERMIT or XMODEM in combination with "Smokey" to get the file onto your
home computer.

For example, you can get the VMS end of KERMIT by giving the command:

	$ COPY BONZO::SYS$SYSTEM:KERMIT.EXE []/LOG

The help file for it is in SYS$HELP:KERMIT.HLB.  If you look on you own
system, you may find it is already installed.  You don't have to have it
in the system directory to run it, but it may take some incantation to
get it to find it's help file.

I keep a copy of XMODEM.EXE in PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]XMODEM.EXE

A little voice from far away....
I'm a new Amiga 500 user and still am a little confused about how to do things, 
namely getting public domain software etc over the DEC net into my Amiga.
Assuming I have copied the file from some friendly person's account into 
my account here, what next?  Assume also that I can unplug my VTxxx from 
the terminal server and plug in my Amiga, no modems involved. Do I need VTxxx
emulator program plus other magic to do the job? How many types of file 
compression can I expect to have to be able to unpack?
Be gentle with your answers!
Thanks in advanks.....................Guy PARSONS.................... 
PS I was halfway through net copy of VT200 emulator when local node went splat!
Boy, things go slowly when you're 10,000 miles away.

    
    First off, a suggestion for the EASYnet side. Always use FTSV when
    coping software from node to node. This would have allowed that long
    copy of VT200 to continue where it left off after your node rebooted.
    If you on the fringes of the network it's the only way to go!
    
    Having gone through my self not too long ago I can understand where
    you're coming from. I use Kermit on the VAX myself and DBW VT100
    on the Amiga side. I use VT100 only because I haven't had the energy
    to download VT200 since I don't use the Amiga has a terminal much
    and VT100 does the trick. Whenever I'm downloading a .ARC file I
    put the VT100 in IMAGE mode and turn off conversions. This solved
    almost all of the BAD HEADER messages from ARC on the Amiga. Try
    to download to RAM: because this speeds things up quite a bit. If
    it's an .ARC file you can then d'ARC down to a floppy directly from
    RAM, assuming you have enough memory.
    
    Nothing has made my life easier like getting the external floppy!
    The Amiga becomes fun again! And adding the 512K upgrade to my A500
    was nice as well. Both make getting downloads much easier so if
    you get frustrated just keep that in mind...
    
    -Ray
    

    The Catch-22 to all of this is getting the terminal program into
    your machine without already having a terminal program.  The only
    way that I have figured out how to do this is by physical transfer
    of a floppy disk from one person to another.  
    
    The next problem to be solved is getting a copy of the ARC program.
    This can be done by merely transferring the ARC program from a VAX
    account to your Amiga.  Fortunately, ARC is cleverly written such
    that you don't need ARC to unpack the ARC program.  Imagine how
    frustrating that would be.                        
    
    Re:  Scott's suggestion for a Starter disk...
    
    I've put together a disk called 'Starter' that has most of the
    essential goodies, and a few naked women thrown in for good measure.
    (Sorry, ladies, the Public Domain, or should I say Pubic Domain,
    hasn't caught up with the women's movement yet.)  I will happily send 
    one off to anyone who asks.  E-mail to LEDS3::ACCIARDI.
    
    Re:  How to transfer files and get them to actually run on your
         Amiga...
    
    On the off chance that we haven't really answered your questions
    yet, here's a step-by-step example of how to transfer a file from
    a VAX to an Amiga...
    
    1.  Place a copy of ARC in either the root or C: directory of your
        system disk.
    
    2.  type CD RAM: from the Amiga CLI.  Not necessary, but very wise.
    
    3.  Run the VT*** emulator of your choosing; make sure it has either
        Kermit or XMODEM protocols.     
    
    4.  Get a working copy of XMODEM or Kermit running on your VAX  and
        dial in using the VT emulator on the Amiga.  Once connected,
    	transfer the file using XMODEM or KERMIT.  XMODEM wants to see
        command 'S FILENAME' where 'FILENAME' is the VAX version to
        be transferred.  If you use Kermit, type 'SET FILE TYPE BINARY'
        at the Kermit > prompt.  Then, type 'SEND FILENAME'.  The VAX
        will think for a second or two, then ask you to run your receiver.
    	Do this, and the two machines will shake hands and begin
        transferring.
        
    5.  When finished transferring, you can go to your Amiga CLI and
        type 'ARC E FILENAME.ARC'.  The unARCing process take a bit
        of time, so don't panic.  When the CLI prompt returns, do a
        'DIR RAM:' and you'll see a number of files.  Usually, there
        is an ASCII 'ReadMe' file explaining what the deal is.  There
        may also be an 'Execute.Me' batch file that may rename some
        files (ARC only allows 10 character filenames) and may perform
        some other tricks.
    
    That's all there is to it!
    
    Ed.

    
    	More naive questions from another new user!

    	How big should the RAM disk be? Is a 512K machine big enough
        To download to ram?
    
    	I have VT200 vers 1.0 and have tryed most every combination
    	of switches to download stuff .. they all seem to download
    	ok , Kermit never has any retrys entered. Yet when I
    	try to Dearc using ARC023 I get mostly BAD HEADER errors
    	and then ARC stops, Sometimes the CPU would freakout and
    	the I would get SOFTWARE FAILURE error from the GRUE (sp)
    	I tryed to KERMIT GET, KERMIT SEND, XMODEM receive 
    	all on AMOEBA.ARC, One file I read said KERMIT needs
    	the file attributes to be Fixed 510 bytes while Xmodem 
    	wants STREAM files. Dir/Full says AMOEBA.ARC is a 510 fixed
    
    	Tonight I am going to try again, 
    	VAX KERMIT> Set file type Fixed
    	VAX KERMIT> Send Amoeba.arc
    
    	VT200> File IMAGE MODE
    	VT200> File CONVERSION OFF (no check mark)
    	VT200> Puck up to File Transfer Kermit receive.
    
    	And then see what happens when I dearc it ( the only difference
    between this proposed download and previous attempts will be Conversion
    off.  ( What does CONVERSION convert??)
    
    Also In previous attempts at KERMIT SEND vaxkermit never prompted
    me (in ascii english) to start my system (xmodem does) what it did
    do was throw about 6 caracters of gibberish on the VAX screen.
    
    I did do one successful download to my machine once, The disk that
    I have with VT200 on it cam with ARC version 1.6 or 1.8.... The
    latest one I've seen is ARC023 so I told KERMIT to GET me the
    ARC023.BIN (executable file) and it runs just fine on my 1000.
    
    ( I didn't get the VT200.DOC file which probably explains all
    of the above questions ... first I have to download VT200.ARC
    and then DEARC it ) ( Catch 22 )
    Please don't yell at my carrying on I bruise easily.
    
    Dean

You need to type KERMIT> set file type BINARY (not fixed)

    Hi Dean,
    
    	Also, make sure that you select Image XFER MODE under the Comm
    Setup  Menu Item of VT200, and turn Convert off.  Make sure that
    your dial-in line is 8 bits as well...do a show term/full once you
    login, and one of the bits of information displayed should be EIGHTBIT.
    Hope that helps.
    
    brad

    Here's how I do it.
    
    First of all there is two types of files that you can transfer
    
    	- Binary (.ARC, .BIN, .EXE)
    	- ASCII  (text, .UUE, .SHAR)
    depending on the type of files you are transfering you want to
    set both the transceiver and receiver end of the Kermit on the 
    same type.
    
    The first thing I do on the Vax after I have logon is to set my
    terminal the following way:
    
    SET TER/EIGHTBIT/NOBROADCAST
    
    then I start Kermit
    
    After Kermit is started depending on the type of transfer I do this:
    
    Binary Xfer
    
    		SET FILE TYPE BINARY
    		SERVER
    
    ASCII Xfer
    		SERVER
    
    Now you will be able to use the Amiga end to control the transfer
    of your files.
    
    On the VT100/VT200 emulator you must set up the same type of transfer.
    
    For a binary Xfer:
    
    	You select Image transfer in the Type of transfer menu and
        Kermit Get in the first menu.
    The emulator will open a gadget and ask you for the name of
    the file you want to transfer.
    
    For a ASCII Xfer:
    
    	You do as before except you select Text in the type of transfer
    instead of Image.
    
    
					Hope that helps.
    					Hubert.
    

	Really appreciate the great response...thanks again!
To reassure people, I did buy a "proper" system at the start, namely Amiga500 
plus A501 1/2 meg exp. plus A1010 drive. I've used it a few times without the
extras, but they sure get plugged back in quickly. Even setting up a decent
collection of progs in RAM doesn't always eliminate the crazy disk swapping
required with a single drive.
 If any AUSTRALIANS are reading this, please contact me on SNOFS1::PARSONS
as I am sending off for Ed Acciardi's "Starter" disk. See me for a copy when I
get it.
		Regards to the Amiga conference members..........Guy

    I concur with Guy, the outpouring of help from the Amiga community
    has been oh so helpful with helping me get in gear.  More questions:
    	1.)  What is USENET and how do you access it?
    	2.)  Are ALL the people using vaxnotes Digital employees?
    	3.)  If my modem is hooked into my serial port on my A1000,
             then where does my Epson printer hook into?

    							Keith Bague

>    I concur with Guy, the outpouring of help from the Amiga community
>    has been oh so helpful with helping me get in gear.  More questions:

	I Agree. I am also new and have found un-ending support in here!


>    	1.)  What is USENET and how do you access it?

	(I am just figuring this stuff out, so correct me if wrong :-))
	USENET is another computer network, external to Digital,
	on which most universities and computer companies converse.
	DEC has nodes which have links to USENET (and others?) where upon
	we (lucky DEC Employees) can pass messages/programs around. One
	real neat thing is that Commodore-Amiga is linked in so we sometimes
	get it "strait from the horses mouth".

	You cant directly get on to USENET. You can include your name in
	one or more "mailings" and recieve notes from selected groups.
	You can also submit a note to be sent on to USENET.

>    	2.)  Are ALL the people using vaxnotes Digital employees?

	The should be! If not employees, contract or other acceptable
	individuals. 
	
>    	3.)  If my modem is hooked into my serial port on my A1000,
>             then where does my Epson printer hook into?

	If the Epson is parallel, plug it into the parallel port. Otherwise
	get a switch box and plug the Amiga, Printer and Modem into it. 
	Then you can simply select modem OR printer - sorry, not both
	simultaneously. 

	You could get a Parallel to Serial conversion device and then
	put the printer on the parralell device.

    re .20  
            Kermit sets your terminal/NOBROADCAST for you (at least
            at least it does here).  That way you don't have to 
            remember to "reset" your terminal.
    
    re .21
            More information on Usenet can be found in ASHBY::USENET
            (or press KP7 to add it)
    
    brad

    
    Amiga Usenet postings can be found in YGDRSL::AMIGA_USENET
    (press kp7 to add that one too! but you knew that already didnt
    you)..
    
    And thanks to Eduardo Santiago for moderating that conference
    and making it easy for us mortals to sift through the enourmuos
    USENET postings.
    
    brad
    

    Re .16
    
    Nude `women'?  I've only seen one.  Are there really more, or was
    that just a slip of the finger?
    
    I am *not* a chauvinist pig, really....
    
    Gary  

    Actually, there used to be several, but I had to purge 'em to make
    room for serious stuff.  OK, more serious stuff.  Besides, you never
    know who you're going to offend, so just to be on the safe side,
    I try to offend everyone equally.  :^)
    
    PLINK has a few megs worth of naked bimbae for the downloading.
    Most were done with DigiView by a fellow with a professional grade
    vidcam, and are spectacular 4096 color images.  Other than the missing
    hip staple, they look like magazine centerfolds.
    
    Maybe we should start a [AMIGA.NAUGHTY] directory someplace.
    
    Ed.

    re .16
    
    What did you put on the starter disk?  Just curious.

    Lessee, offhand (don't have one here...)
    
    Conman
    Snipit
    VT200
    ACO (Formerly Comm)
    Mach15	    
    ShowPrintII
    Diskman
    Sysmon
    Popcolors
    Bunch of new C: commands
        ARC
    	Defdisk
    	Avail
    	Setlace
    	Fastmem
        Runback
        Fixhunk
    
    In the future, I'll proably add the ASDG RRD and Matt/Steve's Shell.
    I currently don't have 'em in my possesion.
    
    Maybe we need a new note with suggestions/contributions to a general
    beginer's disk.  
    
    Ed.
                   
    

For the record, Ed starter disk is GREAT! Get it if you can... (Sorry for the
advertisment, Ed!)

Seriously, When I first got started, Ed (who very conviently works just
downstairs!) gave me STARTER...

Even to this day, I still find something usefull that I didn't realize he
put on there when I first got it! (does that make sense?)

John

Ok Ed, you mean YOU don't have (or more yet, _use_) Matt/Steve's shell????
Now I'm not talking to you until you remedy _this_ situation.  ;^)

					ok, ok, I couldn't resist!

					...richard

OK, I'll bite.

But first - I'm not a Unix type (mainly since I've never even used it!)

What does Shell give you?

Well, I hate to admit it, but (low whisper) I only have one drive.  Shell
includes all the commands I use most (except RUN) so I can go into shell
and then put other disks in df0:.  It saves A LOT of disk swapping on my
part and I don't have to have a bunch of commands in my RAMdisk.

(Opinion on) Besides that, I like it.  The format for the dir command is
much better.  The "*" works as a wildcard again!  It allows line editing.
(Yes, I know - CONMAN)   It has an alias command that lets you define your
own commands or abbreviations like you can in DCL.

Anyway, I sure that there are more reasons if I stop and think about it,
but I'm a new user so I don't have it all in my head yet.  Anyone else like
to extol its virtues further?

							...richard

    OK folks, time for some more new/naieve user type questions again.
    
    Where/how can I find a compiler for AmigaBasic ? I know one exists
    as I've seen benchmarks that say compiled amigabasic is faster than
    truebasic.... (I'll have to stick to basic for a while as c in the
    UK is VERY expensive [lattice c �190, developers c �400] [aztek
    c �350])
    
    What is "RAW" mode ? (as opposed to "CON")
    
    How can I get my system (A500 unexpanded) to boot up to use the
    whole screen ? (today on booting up I only get a CLI window with
    24 or 25 rows covering 3/4 of the screen - the first thing I have
    to do is drag the size gadget to the full screen size [30 rows]).
    
    Same question really with my amigabasic 'output screen' it only
    comes up with 24 rows and WILL NOT drag any bigger !!! (BTW the
    LIST window will drag to 30 rows).
    
    Does anyone have an la50 driver that will support graphics ? I have
    used the Fish #90 PrtDrvGen to create a driver but the options
    available within PrtDrvGen don't have a means of coping with sixels.
    
    Hope that this isn't too much all at the same time..... 
    
    				Alan T.
    
    re: -1 Hmm that shell looks handy.........

    Sorry, just one more...
    
    
    What is DRACO ?? (it appears on FF 55 & 56 [or is that 65 & 66 ?])
    
    It would seem to be a language of some sorts - but is it a specialised
    language (e.g. for writing adventure games or the like) ?
    
    					Alan T.

It's supposed to be a cross between 'C' and Pascal, and have full intuition,
etc support.  The author writes compiliers for fun (??) and has put out some
PD stuff in DRACO.  

Robb

    Re: .11 (yes I know it's way back)
    
    Don't look in ROZETT::AMIGA. ROZETT is no more, it is now an MDM
    test system so all you'll probably get is "%F-NOSUCHOBJ". 
    
    As mentioned in 910.something, YGDRSL::AMIGA: contains Amiga stuff
    for people in or close to area 5.

    re the compiler...sorry, I don't know, but I would bet its as much
    as the C compilers....
    
    Raw mode is just the basics...think of it like a simple TTY, as
    opposed to a vt200  ie all the screen control sequences, etc. are
    all interpreted by the console...at least thats how I think of it,
    even though there's a lot more to it...
    
    as for the screen, I'll bet thats the difference with the video
    output...here in the states, all you get (without morerows) is this
    24 line screen....sorry, again, no real info...anyone else??
    
    scott.
    

    re .34
    The Absoft AC-Basic compiler is language compatible with AmigaBasic.
    I got it from Abel Supply for $115.00 and it works fine. There is
    a note on it somewhere in this conference. 

    New question:
    1.)  If I wanted to merely transfer a file from an Amiga to another
    	 Amiga over a phone line, do I have to use a transfer protocol
         or is the phone connection at the receiving Amiga treated as
    	 a new CLI session?  I have also heard of software on IBM PC's
     	 that allow you to call up a friends PC from your own, enslave
         his PC and write to his disks as virtual devices belonging
         to you.  Is there similar software for the Amiga?
    
    						Keith Bague

    Robb's pretty close.  It looks like a cross between 'C' and something
    else I haven't really figured out yet.  I've been looking at it
    really hard, trying to figure out if it is usable.  It seems to
    be.  All the include files I seem to need from looking at Peck's
    book and Mortimore's seem to be there.  It seems to be now changing
    the syntax to agree with Draco's is all that is stopping me from
    working with this.
    
    He gives a few examples in the 2nd arc file, not enough to learn
    from, but enough to compare with 'C' programs and change to Draco.
    
    I don't think that the archives on mvcad2:: have the complete
    distribution, but I do.  Beware, they are really long. 1 is about
    100K long  and the other is 160K.
    
    CRVAX1::DUA4:[ANDREWS.AMIGA.DRACO]DRACO.ARC,DRDOC.ARC
    
    					Rob

    New questions:
    1.)  Can the Amiga 1000 handle Regis type graphics?  What I'm
         specifically interested in is a terminal emulation package
         that will allow my Amiga to emulate a VT241 at home.  Also,
         how the heck can you go through the Vaxnotes conference without
         the keypad on the right side?
    2.)  Has anybody ever taken the time to redefine the keypad on the
         Amiga 2000 to emulate a VT220 keypad?  Can it be done?  If
    	 it can be, I suspect that there is going to be large demand
      	 for adapter plugs for A1000 users that are going to want to
    	 purchase the 2000 keyboard.
    
    						Keith Bague

>    1.)  Can the Amiga 1000 handle Regis type graphics?  What I'm
>         specifically interested in is a terminal emulation package
>         that will allow my Amiga to emulate a VT241 at home.  Also,
>         how the heck can you go through the Vaxnotes conference without
>         the keypad on the right side?

	VT241 sure would be nice, but the closest is the VT200 which
	can do SIXEL.  As for VAXnotes, use the "prompted" commands.
	For example NOTES> NEXT UNSEEN, NOTES> REPLY, NOTES> WRITE etc...

	I know. It's a pain.


>    2.)  Has anybody ever taken the time to redefine the keypad on the
>         Amiga 2000 to emulate a VT220 keypad?  Can it be done?  If
>    	 it can be, I suspect that there is going to be large demand
>      	 for adapter plugs for A1000 users that are going to want to
>    	 purchase the 2000 keyboard.

	The VT200 does a good job, except I haven't figured out how
	to get the GOLD functions in EDT/TPU (when logged into a VAX, of course)


SO I guess now I have a question:  How DO you use GOLD keys? (Isn't GOLD just
a key (escape) sequence which EDT recognises?)

    
    I have a 1000.  In smokey, F1-F4 correspond to PF1-PF4 on the VTxxx
    keyboard.  Therefore F1=Gold.  This should also be true for the
    500 & 2000 keyboards.
    
    When Mike Liebow gets back maybe there are enough of you to convince
    him to put in a new script/startup command which will switch these to
    the keypad area for 500/2000 owners.
    
    - steve mcafee

    1.)  How does a new user go about bringing up a digitized picture
      	 file up on the monitor?  Do you have a different procedure
    	 for displaying the file depending on whether it is IFF or HAM
    	 format?
    2.)  If someone (like Mike Liebow) remaps the 2000 keypad to emulate 
    	 the VT220 keypad for say EDT, does it logically follow that
    	 keyboard would also work for WPSPLUS?
    							Keith Bague

< Note 1058.45 by IVOGUS::BAGUE "Open the pod bay doors, HAL........" >
                    -< Tired of the questions yet?........ >-

>    1.)  How does a new user go about bringing up a digitized picture
>      	 file up on the monitor?  Do you have a different procedure
>    	 for displaying the file depending on whether it is IFF or HAM
>    	 format?

there are various utilities that'll display IFF files. I use something called
SHOWIFF from a fish disk I think.  HAM is part of the IFF encoding, so a decent
IFF `shower' should handle it nicely.

>    2.)  If someone (like Mike Liebow) remaps the 2000 keypad to emulate 
>    	 the VT220 keypad for say EDT, does it logically follow that
>    	 keyboard would also work for WPSPLUS?
>    							Keith Bague

yup, keys be keys.

Robb

    Re: .45
    
    Keith, I just put the STARTER disk in the mail for you.  There is
    a file on it called ViewILBM that will display any IFF image known to
    man.  There are numerous file viewers making the rounds; a new one
    called uShow is only 644 bytes!  ViewILBM is over 11KBytes.
    
    You can make entire disks of Icon-viewable pictures by taking any
    project Icon and assigning 'ViewILBM' as the default tool through
    the INFO menu from Workbench.
                 
    In fact, if you install ViewILBM in your C directory on your system
    disk, you can configure DiskMan (another slick file manipulator
    utility) to call ViewILBM whenever you want to page through graphics
    without using CLI or Workbench.  DiskMan is also on the starter
    disk.
    
    Ed.
    

    RE: .45
    
    One of the things that will stress most VTxxx terminal emulators
    is the WPS-Plus software itself. I am happy to say that Smokey (the
    VTxxx emulator) doesn't even blink....  The only current pain is
    that you need to remember to press the F1 thru F4 instead of the
    normally positioned PF1-4. Minor problem.
    
    =jbf=
    

    More naive questions.
    
    Where can I find a list of the available switches and options available
    for the standard AmigaDOS commands ? The only one listed in the
    manual "Introduction to the Amiga 500" is the "1> dir opt a" command
    but reading comp.sys.amiga this morning showed a "1>type foo opt h"
    to get a hex dump of a file - Where do I find a listing of all these
    switches ?????
    
    The book that came with my A500 keeps giving reference to the book
    "The AmigaDOS Manual" by Bantam. Guess what ? No local bookstore
    can even find a reference to it.... Can somebody please post the
    ISBN number for it ?
    
    Speaking of books, would you recommend the AmigaDOS manual for a
    beginner or is there a better one ?
    
    				Alan T.
    

    re: support for the A2000/A500 keypad
    
    ummm... I've always liked VT100 v2.4 -- no fancy windows during
    downloads, did most of the things i wanted, etc.  I liked even more
    when I found that I could actually understand the C code enough
    to add support for the new keys in the keypad (I gave up on later
    versions of VT100, too much windowing and mouseing code).
    
    If there is any interest I can upload it and the changes.
    
    -dave

    re: .49
    
    _The AmigaDOS Manual_, 2nd Edition, by Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
    
    ISBN 0-553-34440-0  $24.95 in the U.S.
    
    Be sure to get the second edition, which covers the current (1.2)
    version of the operating system.  This book is a reference without
    much introductory stuff.  As a "naive user," you might find _Compute!'s
    Guide to the Amiga_ helpful in getting started, although it is somewhat
    out of date.
    
    I find it handy to start the CLI from POPCLI or MACH rather than
    from the CLI icon on the Workbench disk.  Hope this helps.

re .43

Using "u n" for "next unseen" is not THAT much more painful than using the 
keypad to read NOTES. A close friend of mine uses a puck on a graphic 
tablet all day, and the puck just isn't up to the heavy usage of the news 
biz; fortunatey most commands can be made from the keyboard, and it wasn't 
hard to learn to prefer typing a few characters in order to get dependable 
response. Similarly, I don't expect much trouble with whatever it takes to 
read NOTES from our Amiga [Real Soon Now] instead of a Pro....

    To:  Ed Acciardi
    
    Thanks for that STARTER disk.  It's really helped me a lot.  Some
    questions, though:
     	1.)  I started moving stuff over to the workbench and am rapidly
    	     running out of room.  I've already removed all the printer 
    	     drivers and am not sure which else is safe to remove.  Is
	     there a note in the conference which discusses making room on the
	     workbench?
	2.)  I'm not sure I fully understood your previous note about
    	     to setting ViewIlbm in the NOTES part.  Does this mean
    	     that any picture I deal with gets a icon automatically?

    ViewILBM is a general purpose IFF picture viewer.  You can run it
    from the CLI by typing 'VIEWILBM FILENAME'.  You can also take any
    project icon, such as a DPaint saved pictue icon, and from the CLI 
    type 'COPY OLD_ICON_NAME.INFO TO NEW_ICON_NAME.INFO' where 'NEW_ICON_NAME'
    is the name of the IFF file you wish to view from Workbench.Now,
    single click on the new icon, and select INFO from the Workbench
    menu.  Change the default tool to ViewILBM.
    

    Re:  Stuff to throw away to make room on your system disk...
    
    Before I had my hard drive, I used a stripped-down system disk filled
    with the stuff I used all the time.  For any little used C commands,
    I built a utilities disk.  I purged ED, EDIT, DISKDOCTOR, and any
    other stuff that I didn't use frequently.
    
    Don't remove anything from the LIBS or L directories.
    
    

RE .54


Speaking of ICONS, I tried to take a project ICON and call it DEC-VT200.INFO.
I then made the default tool :EXECUTE and stuck EXECUTE in the root dir of
the VT200 disk...

In DEC-VT200 is 2 lines:

	ASSIGN FONTS: VT200:
	VT200

When I click on the DEC-VT200 icon, GURU...???


John

P.S.  What are "tool types" in project icons ?

    John, you need to get XICON, which will allow you to process batch
    files from an icon.  
    
    Here are some examples of tools...
    
    Notepad
    Textcraft
    Dpaint
    
    A project would be a notepad file, or a Textcraft document, or a
    DPaint picture.
    
    As you all probably know by now, Workbench is currently an inadequate
    environment for taking total control of the system.  There is no
    'generic' icon for many files.  Version 1.4 of the system software
    is rumored to be a total rewrite of the Workbench environment.
    
    I think we should start a new note listing our wishlist and
    likes/dislikes of the current Workbench.  I can make sure that the
    wishlist is forwarded to Commodore people on PLINK.
    

Thanks ED.  Wishlist is a great idea, in fact I'd just like to see a 
"rumors" list of OS changes (1.4??? where's 1.3 :-) )...    

    
    
    
    	XICON is on Fred Fish disk 102.
    
    	MVCAD3::user0:[Amiga.ff102]XICON.ARC
    
    
    	See file MVCAD3::user0:[Amiga]Fred-Fish.help for down-load
    	instuctions.
    
    
    			Steve Peters
    

    1.)  Anybody out there that can give me the pin configuration for the
	 cable hookup from my Hayes Smartmodem to my Amiga 1000?  I'm getting
	 some strange behavior when I try to use my keyboard with the
    	 my current cable.(a male to male Digital special)
    
    2.)  Which version of Smokey is on the STARTER disk of Ed Acciardi?
         Is it started up (after being deARCED) by just clicking the mouse
    	 on it twice?

    Up until recently, I was distributing Smokey X.6 to DEC employees
    via the Starter disk.  I just converted over to Smokey X1.1, which
    supports the A500/A2000 keypads.
    
    I believe that I have included an icon in the archive.  I also included
    a sample VT200.init file, which Smokey will look for when you run
    it.  If there is no icon, just 'run vt200 vt200.init' from the CLI.
    
    You can use Smokey x.6 to download the latest version from 
    AGNESI"AMIGA"::SMOKEY1.1.arc
    
    

    The reason I asked about clicking on the vt200 icon is that I deARCed
    VT200 and put it on a scratch disk, BUT when I tried to double-click
    the mouse on the VT200 icon, it returned me back to the VT200 disk
    window without producing any results.  Maybe it has to do with my
    modem cabling problems.  Comments anybody?

    
    Sounds like you didn't put the fonts into FONTS:.  When smokey can't
    find the fonts it wants, it will shut down.  If you were running
    from the CLI it tells you this is the problem.  Look for an execute.me
    file in the area where you de-arced smokey.
    
    Which brings up another issue/complaint about the Workbench.  There
    doesn't seem to be a SIMPLE method for programmers to blast a workbench
    error message to the user.  Am I wrong?  That Last Error commad on the
    workbench menu is pretty pathetic.  Sorry for the diversion.
    
    - steve mcafee

    Uh, I know this might sound stupid to you, but what am I supposed
    to do with execute.me once I find it?  Please have mercy, I'm new
    to the PC world.

No problem.  The execute.me file is a command procedure that, when executed,
will do any post-unarc work needed before you can use the product.  Often it
just contains some rename commands.  Type it out and see.

To execute, simply "execute execute.me".  If you only have one drive, you
might "type execute.me", see what commands it is going to use, and copy
them to your RAM: disk before executing it to save you many disk swaps!!

						...richard

	Actually, the 'execute.me' for Smokey is called FONTS.COM.

Mark

    I'm not sure I understand what everyone is talking about when they
    are talking about the "Drew Shell" (Manx?).  Is this some kind of
    VMS emulator written in C?  In any case, could somebody point out
    the obvious advantages of obtaining this and running it instead
    of AmigaDos?

    Actually, you run it on top of a CLI window.  What it gives you
    are some commonly used commands (DIR & LIST, TYPE, COPY, DELETE),
    command line recall and editing, the ability to set up your own
    logicals, lets you define your f1-10 keys, walks the dog, and cleans
    the kitchen.
    
    				Rob

    Pardon me for being dense, but aren't the commands you listed in
    the Drew shell already in AmigaDos?

    Yes, they are, but the best part of the shell is that they are all
    built in, you don't have to access the disk for them.  It makes
    life a lot faster, when you don't have to wait for disk access,
    and doesn't chew up valuble RAM space.  If you have only one drive,
    I would image that for simple things, it would make your life heaven.
    					Rob

    
    	RE: 65 
    	One thing to watch out for when you 'execute a EXECUTE.ME' file
    	is they often contain a 
    	Rename xxx.xxx to s/startup-sequence thus blowing away your
    	original startup-sequence ! ( Maybe I should PROTECT my startup)
    
    	

    What's the name of the software that allows you to execute files
    by moving the mouse to the file name and clicking on it?

>    What's the name of the software that allows you to execute files
>    by moving the mouse to the file name and clicking on it?

Probably MS-Windows

John

    I meant....for the Amiga.

    
    
    RE .72
    
    	The window system on the Amiga is called Workbench.
    
    		Steve
    

    No...I know what you mean...and thats not it...I saw description
    of a program that listed the files in text format (not icons), but
    like climate, zing, etc...allowed execution...I think its browser
    by peter desilva, but can't be sure...
    
    Yup...just looked around here...came over the usenet a bit ago...
    haven't tried it yet, but the SHAR files are in 
    
    	mvcad3::user0:[amiga.usenet]browser.sh*  (2 files)
    
    
    ------------------------from the docs--------------------------------
    
    
    NAME
            browser -- a "programmer's Workbench" for the Amiga.
     
    SUMMARY
            Browser provides a less flashy but more useful (at least
            for programmer's and other power users) adjunct to the
            Amiga Workbench. It also radically reduces the need for
            directory utilities.
     
            It emulates most of the features and capabilities of the
            Workbench, in text-only windows. All files in the system
            are accessible... not just the ones that have icons
            associated with them.
     
            Supported features include: executing, copying/moving,
            renaming, and deleting files; and examining, copying/moving,
            renaming, creating, and deleting directories.
     
            Unsupported features: formatting, renaming, and making raw
            copies of diskettes.
     
    
    

    Can anybody fill me in on something called Kickbench?  It's been
    mentioned on brief occasion around the conference and I'd like to
    look at it in more detail.  I assume that both Kickstart and Wb
    are on the same disk, but is this disk recommended for novice users
    (like myself) or more for the guru-type enthusiast?

Kickbench is a way for an Amiga 1000 to have Kickstart and Workbench
on the same disk.

The advantage is that it only takes one disk to get the 1000 up-and-running.

The disadvantage is that storing Kickstart on your Workbench disk eats
256K of disk space.

The procedure for using Kickbench isn't too difficult.  Novices should
be able to handle making their own Kickbench disk.  After the disk is
made, anyone can use the disk to start the Amiga.

Instructions for setting up a Kickbench disk is available on one of the
Fish disks.

    Yet another naive question:
    
    Sometimes a process will just seize on me (the most common 'guilty
    party' is amigabasic). The machine isn't hung, just the one process.
    I can popcli (Mach15) and have a perfect newcli but, of course,
    the 'hung' process is still occupying memory. I can issue the status
    command and readily identify the task thats hung -- so -- the question
    is: Is there an equivalent of the VMS $ stop proc/id=xxx command?
    i.e. can I stop task 2 from task 4 ?
    
    				Alan T.

Well, you could try the BREAK command. Or equivilently, select the window
of the hung process and try each of ^C, ^D, ^E, ^F (^ = hold down control key
while hitting second key) These are task flags which should abort a sane
program - that is , if it's not trapping them itself...


But in general, if a process gets "hung", it stays that way...

John

    "Say, I'm a new Amiga user and..."  I've set up POPCLI in my
    startup-sequence as follows:
    
      POPCLI 180 NEWCLI >NIL: CON: etc.
    
    The wierd thing is, sometimes when I endcli the window is left on
    the screen, and sometimes it is cleared.  Once when I observed the
    former, I tried it again and gave it >ENDCLI >NIL: and the window
    still stayed on the screen.
    
    Two questions: 1) shouldn't my NEWCLI in the s-s make the window
    consistently clear when finished? why does it work sometimes, and
    not others?  2) is there a way to clear a finished CLI window off
    the screen?.  Any and all informative answers gratefully appreciated.
    
    ...Tim  8^)                              

    Why does the cli window stay there?
    I've noticed that if you run some programs (smokey,GOMF, a few others),
    then do a endcli, the window stays there until you exit the program
    you ran.  Some programs do this, others 'detach' themselves from
    the cli 'cleanly' (for lack of a better phrase).  I haven't noticed
    anything consistant with this behavior.
    
    Try getting RUNBACK, as this may solve the problem with the window
    not closing properly.  I don't know for sure.
    
    				Rob

    re 81....82 hit the nail on the head...this all goes along with
    a discussion recently on usenet re popcli 3, and the new way it
    sets up a task instead of a process...this changes the way it inherits
    process info, stacks, file handles, etc.
    
    but, the short, non-tech answer is that when you execute a program, 
    in general, it keeps the CLI as a place for output, and the window
    won't go away untill everyone is done with it...
    
    some programs get fancy, like popcli 3, some of the wKeys stuff,
    etc., and "install a background "task" that doesn't hook to the
    initial cli, but your ordinary programs don't
    
    RUNBACK and other variants detach the cli from the task...usefull
    for clock programs, vt200, etc....anything that open its own windows...
    
    hope this helps...scott
    

    Re: .83
    
    Scott,
    
    So if I understand what you're saying, If I start a program from
    the CLI, even if I started the CLI with NEWCLI >NIL: or ended it
    with ENDCLI >NIL: the window will stay open until all the programs
    I started from that CLI are finished.  Is that right?
    
    What about my other question re: cleaning unwanted stuff off the
    'bench.  Does the above process preclude cleaning?
    
    ...Tim
    

Re: .81 -.83

The reason why a CLI window will sometimes stay around is indeed that
a RUNed program opens the parent's CLI window in shared mode.  AmigaDOS
will not remove a window from the screen until all programs that have
that window opened in shared mode close it.

POPCLI2 and POPCLI3 both can be run from a CLI and not prevent that
CLI's window from closing.  However, they accomplish this through
different means.

POPCLI3 uses the new Lattice cback startup module.  This startup procedure
"clones" the program in place into another process.  This code does not
pass the standard input and output file handles, so the program does
not share the CLI window.

POPCLI2 is cruder.  It simply closes the standard input and output
filehandles.  This means that POPCLI no longer has shared access to
the CLI window, and so an ENDCLI will close it.  (This also means that
POPCLI2 must never exit.  If it does, AmigaDOS will try and reclose the
standard input and output filehandles.  Hello, Guru.)

So, neither POPCLI2 or POPCLI3 will keep a CLI window from closing.  So,
in your case, I suspect that the problem is that you are RUNning some
other program that keeps the CLI window from closing.

There is no way to force a "leftover" window to close except by having
everyone that has the window open to close it.   The easiest way to
accomplish this is to stop any programs run from that CLI.  Even if
there was a magic way to forcibly shut down such windows, you wouldn't
want to do it because you couldn't keep any of those programs that
have the window open from trying to write to it.  Even programs that
normally don't write to standard output may do so in a panic if they
encounter some catastrophic problem.  Writing to a closed filehandle
is a quick way to a Guru.

To avoid the problem, use RUNBACK to run the program.  It sets the
standard input and output filehandles to NIL:.

    Thanks for the word of explaination.  AmogaDOS is starting to be
    more understandable.  Amiga Conference comes through again!!!

	Er, this is a *real* naive question; when I got my Citizen HQP40
	printer (IBM & Epson compatible) I got a serial->parallel interface
	cable. It seems that I am able to attach either end into the Amiga
	and then attach the other end into the corresponding serial/parallel
	port on the printer. Does it matter which way I connect the cable?
	Will my text come out backwards or something? ;-)

	Secondly, when I do get the cable connected, will I need a special
	driver for colour on the HQP? If so (as I guess it will be hard to
	find one - the HQP is new on the market) could I use an Epson driver?

KK

    don't know re the cable, but the espon driver should be ok...of
    course you may not be able to use all the features of the higher
    densities, etc.  I have a citezen 120, and it works fine with epson.
    
    I also used the printer-driver-generator (PD) to gen a new one that
    supports the higher print densities...the lates version I have is
    on   mvcad3::user0:[amiga.arc]prtgen.arc
    
    scott.

     At this risk of winning the "naive user of the year award" ...
     How do I use this *&^%*&^% Amiga 500. Ah that felt better.
     
     But seriously folks, against my normal philosophy I bought an Amiga
     500 saturday at 4:00 pm from the Memory Location - they closed at 5:00
     and I have a new toy with NO manual!!! I managed to do a few thing by
     trial and error (I backed up workbench and Faery tale adventure), and
     generic computer knowlege, but I cannot get anything significant to
     run. If someone is there (here?) today (Sunday) I'd really appreciate
     a quick step through of how to start Faery T.A. for example. Otherwise
     it is swear and wait until tommorow when I can get the manual from
     those otherwise helpful people at the Memory Location.
     
     Since this is clearly a time limited request, perhaps mail to 
     STAR::ROBINSON would keep the file from clutter, and I could delete
     this later.
     
     Thanks,
     Dave 
     

    To start faery tale adventure:
    
    	First, have a blank disk readyfor saving games.  FTA will
    	ask you to insert the blank when it starts up.
    
    	To start FTA insert the FTA disk when the Amiga asks for Workbench,
    	game will start.   If your system is already booted:  Insert
    	FTA disk and press CTRL+<RED Amiga>+<Commodore key> together
    	(system reset).
    
    	FTA will ask you to complete three phrases.  You'll have to
    look at the FTA map to find the phrases.

     Thanks for the info. I don't think I could have guessed the system
     reset combination :-}. I suspect I will put some other notes in
     here but I hope future problems have more substance to them.
     
     Since you answered here, I guess I'll leave the original request.
     It may seem humorous at some point....
     
     Thanks again,
     Dave

    I didn't want to start a new note for this, and I couldn't find
    an appropriate existing note, so I'll stick it in here.
    
    Two questions:
    
    1) can anyone recommend a foreground/background colour combination
    which gives minimum flicker in hi-res interlace ? I have tried many
    combinations, the best so-far is bg 6,6,6/ fg 2,2,2 which is very
    dark and not really useable (but is almost flicker free).
    
    2) I'm making up a cable for an RGB monitor (analogue), can anyone
    tell me what signals I need to feed to the monitor ? I've already
    connected up R,G&B signals and R,G&B grounds, but then I'm stuck!
    What about H-synch or V-synch ?? (Hardware type I ain't !!)
    
    			Alan T.

    I use black text on a grey background, looks great in interlace.