Conference csc32::consolemanager

>>    	I know this has been discussed several places in this and the vcs
>>    notes file without resolution but I thought I would take another shot.
>>    Are there any scan files that will work for OPENVMS AXP. If not is

  Try Doreen Flynn, she is our product administrator and has been doing some 
  work to collect all the scan profiles various people have been creating and 
  placing them in a central repository.

  I think Doreen can be reached at MUZICK::FLYNN

>>    there some place to get the system messages syntax for OPENVMS AXP 6.1
>>    so we can build our own scan file.

  You could always try someone in the OpenVMS engineering group.

Cheers,
Phil

    
    
    	Hi Joe,
    
    	See also note 614.4.
    
    	Rgds,
    
    	Geert

    
    	I tried Doreen prior to adding the .0 note, and also as far as note
    614 goes there are no scan files for VMS AXP only VMS. 
    
    
                                                 Thanks,
    							Joe

    Folks
    
    We have seen this discussion swing back and forth, but what we have not
    seen is a sensible (any?) outcome. I hope the following is helpful.
    
    Scans are a fundamental part of PCM. They must be created. It would
    seem that there are three areas of responsibility that could create
    them: the PCM development team, product development team, or the users
    of PCM.
    
    Taken in reverse order: the users of PCM don't have any tools to help
    them do this, we can go through operator logs to hunt up new messages,
    but this is beyond many of our scopes, and all too often proves to be
    retrospective (perhaps a PCM action routine could be developed to help
    us do this?); any product development team is primarily concerned with
    spending its money on itself, if very few of its sites use PCM why
    should it spend the time creating PCM scans? and how do you get 3rd
    party teams to comply (like Oracle Rdb etc); which leaves the PCM
    development team.
    
    Guys, I assume that you really want to sell this product! Then create
    scans. We all appreciate your lack of resources, but it would be far
    more efficient for you to develope a local new message finder and to
    use it internally to create scans for all Digital products, and any
    third party products that we may use, than it would be for all of us to
    do the same.
    
    By not doing so you leave yourselves wide open to any competition that
    may want to stray into your territory. Were I in competition with you I
    would make it my business to get scans to my customers for everything,
    and then to keep them updated - my products, foobar's products,
    toobar's tape drives, ANYTHING that sent messages to the console...
    
    FWIW...
    
    Tony Sherrard

Tony,

>>    Scans are a fundamental part of PCM. They must be created. It would
>>    seem that there are three areas of responsibility that could create
>>    them: the PCM development team, product development team, or the users
>>    of PCM.

 We (the development team) totally agree.
    
>>    Taken in reverse order: the users of PCM don't have any tools to help
>>    them do this, we can go through operator logs to hunt up new messages,
>>    but this is beyond many of our scopes, and all too often proves to be
>>    retrospective (perhaps a PCM action routine could be developed to help
>>    us do this?); any product development team is primarily concerned with
>>    spending its money on itself, if very few of its sites use PCM why
>>    should it spend the time creating PCM scans? and how do you get 3rd
>>    party teams to comply (like Oracle Rdb etc); which leaves the PCM
>>    development team.

 So you think that we have the time to create scan profiles for eveything 
 under the sun.
    
>>    Guys, I assume that you really want to sell this product! Then create
>>    scans. We all appreciate your lack of resources, but it would be far
>>    more efficient for you to develope a local new message finder and to
>>    use it internally to create scans for all Digital products, and any
>>    third party products that we may use, than it would be for all of us to
>>    do the same.

 We certainly do want to sell the product!! However, when there are only two 
 engineers working on it full time, its a little difficult!!!

>>    By not doing so you leave yourselves wide open to any competition that
>>    may want to stray into your territory. Were I in competition with you I
>>    would make it my business to get scans to my customers for everything,
>>    and then to keep them updated - my products, foobar's products,
>>    toobar's tape drives, ANYTHING that sent messages to the console...

 You are preaching to the converted, all I can say is that you escalate your
 requirements to those with the purse strings!!

Cheers,
Phil

    To add to what Phil said.....
    
    Events/Scan profiles are also quite subjective. Beyond those things
    that are obviously problems like a BUGCHECK/hardware errors how do you
    determine whats really important and should be included? This is
    compounded further when you consider 3rd party products - how are we
    supposed to know what they send to their consoles. I seriously doubt
    that if we called them up that they would be willing to just send us
    a source file with all the messages in it. We can't even get that info
    from our own engineering groups!! I understand your point of view and I
    empathize but there are many logistical problems the first of which
    is funding for bodies to do the work as Phil has already alluded to!
    
    Regards,
       Dan

    
    	Lets forget about third party products for a moment and get back to
    the problem at hand. We should be able to provide our customers using
    our tools on our recommended platforms the scan files needed for our
    products. This does not seem unreasonable. There were scan files
    provided for several operating systems and devices, it does not seem
    unreasonable for a customer to expect that as their operating systems
    and platforms change, so to should the scan files.
    
                                                   Joe 
    								

Joe,

	As has been stated many times in both this and the VCS notes conference,
	the PCM engineering team are not in a position to provide what you
	require.

	The only people who can provide complete listings of the output systems
	and applications make is there people who develop them. It MUST be 
	the responsibility of the OpenVMS enegineering group to provide a
	listing of the possible messages for OpenVMS etc. We cannot second
	guess these things.

	The only way to change the current behaviour is to escalate it through
	the management chain. There will never be any such change through this
	notes conference.

Andy.

    
    	A cld/ipmt case has been logged as of 5/9/95. We will see if that
    helps.
    
    						Joe Averbach