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Conference vaxuum::document_ft

Title:DOCUMENT T1.0
Notice:**New notesfile (DOCUMENT.NOTE) now available (see note 897)**
Moderator:CLOSET::ADLER
Created:Mon Feb 09 1987
Last Modified:Thu Oct 31 1991
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:897
Total number of notes:4397

308.0. "Multiple <p> tag behavior with <note> tag" by ATLAST::BOUKNIGHT (Everything has an outline) Sun Apr 26 1987 11:54

    A question on the handling of <p> and <note>.
    
    If I include the following:
    
    <p>this is paragraph text.
    
    <p>
    <note>this is note text
    <endnote>
    
    I get the following:
    
    this is paragraph text.
    -blank line-
    -blank line-
    Note: this is note text
    -blank line-
    
    but if I put in the following:

    <p>this is paragraph text.
    <note>this is note text
    <endnote>

    then I get the following:
    
    this is paragraph text.
    -blank line-
    Note: this is note text
    -blank line-

    The latter is what I expect.
    
    Seems like multiple <p> tags (including what looks like an implicit
    <p> tag at the front of the <note> tag processing) should collapse
    to the effect of a single <p> tag.  To me, this is the inituitive
    expectation, not that <p> can be used to put in "blank lines". I
    would expect there to be another tag for forcing white space lines.
    
    The situation arises not necessarily with normal interactive/editing
    input of DOCUMENT source, but with front end generator programs
    that sometimes combine elements like <p><note> and expect it to
    behave just like <note> by itself.
    
    I expect that you are going to suggest that the generator program
    be cleaned up, and that may happen, but I don't think that answer
    addresses the problem of how multiple <p> tags should behave.
    
    Jack
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
308.1CUPOLA::HAKKARAINENAlbatross!Mon Apr 27 1987 10:4215
    Remembering that we're marking elements of text, not providing
    formatting instructions, I don't think that multiple <p>'s should
    be gobbled by Document. The intuitive behavior that I expect is
    that Document should give me consistent output for my input. 
    
    There is no implicit <p> prior to a note; the formatting requirements
    of <note> in that particular doctype call for added space. 
    
    It seems that there's a lot of extra work needed when trying to
    interpret what a user intended with a <tag_a><tag_b> combination. But,
    if something is going to be done like that, then the front-end
    processor should delete the superfluous tags, simplifying subsequent
    passes. 
    
    kh
308.2"marking text" is the point hereATLAST::BOUKNIGHTEverything has an outlineMon Apr 27 1987 12:5021
    On the other hand, why should DOCUMENT do anything with a <p> with
    no associated text? A <p> that stands by itself like in <p><p> causes
    white space to appear for both instances; based on your statement
    that we are "marking text", there is no text marked for the first
    <p> so why should the output reflect this with white space, as opposed
    to no effect at all?  I really want the <p> tag to work like it
    was "marking text" and cause the paragraph-start processing to occur
    when the first character of the paragraph is encountered, not when
    the tag is encountered. Seems to me that encountering an immediate
    tag such as <note> or <head1> or something that is a "major" formatting
    tag should override the effect of the <p> and cancel it, but as
    it is now, the <p> seems to "get in its licks" before the new tag
    gets a chance to do its job.
    
    The appearance of the <note> section as separated from the rest
    of the paragraph does not appear to me the reader much different
    from the same effect that a <p> tag has.  This is why I refered
    to the implicit <p> action that seems to be associated with the
    beginning of the note.
308.3guilty as charged!GLINKA::GREENEThu Apr 30 1987 11:109
    I know that I "shouldn't" but I have made great use of the
    multiple <p> tag in forcing spaces (especially to make more
    space after a header, or to force a nice clean page break).
    
    I'm sure that there are many of us who have used little tricks
    like this to do what we wanted/needed because either there was
    no proper way or we just didn't know what it was.
    
    	Penelope
308.4needs thought/workCLOSET::ANKLAMFri May 01 1987 12:3012
    
    The use of multiple <p> tags to produce extra space is one of
    those 'holes' in the system that are current abused as 'features'.
    
    Jack is correct that we should probably discard multiple occurrences
    of <p> tags, or to discard <p> tags in front of text elements that
    provide their own spacing. Fixing this is extremely complex, and
    will require a good deal of internal work; will add to the list
    of things to look at post-V1.
    
    -patti