Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

    
    
    I've stopped laughing now :-)
    
    You want to put CDD/PLUS into an account to show the POWER of our
    products?
    
    The reason we usually lose these accounts is because of the immense
    resource requirements of CDD/PLUS, the stability of CDD/PLUS in the
    real world, the performance of CDD/PLUS from an account with
    regular quotas, the lack of concurrency when compiling against
    CDD/PLUS, I could go on ..
    
    Please, if you want to show them the power of Digitals DECtp strategy,
    use something other than CDD/PLUS !
    
    Simon M.
    CSC/Colorado Springs 

    If you want high-performance, just convert the stored ORACLE tables
    into a MUMPS database...Right?
    
    ---- Michael Booth

    I think Steve was thinking more of getting into the account by
    supplying something Oracle doesn't have...CDD/Plus, and then moving to
    Rdb to show the power....
    
    In any event, c'mon guys.....just answer the question!
    
    

    Oracle has no interface to CDD/Plus. You could store the tables by
    manually entering them, but then Oracle SQL*Plus still couldn't read
    them. I suppose you could code the application in 3GL with Oracle SQL
    statements. But even thenm they will have to be compiled against Oracle
    libraries, and the Oracle DB table names (as opposed to CDD/Plus
    pathnames) will have to be referenced in the code. So I think the
    answer is that this scenario will not work. You are looking at parallel
    dictionary maintenance---not particularly appealing.
    
    ---- Michael Booth
    
    RE: -.1
    
    Brother Davis, how often have we witnessed your digressions in search
    of humor? Your newfound seriousness surprises me.

    Surprisingly I've been called by two customers today with just the same
    question. They want to store metadata in a central repository and let
    Oracle (SQL*Forms) use it. Quite impossible I know, but this still
    could indicate O's weakness.
    
    One customer (big oil company) even wants to store ALL metadata in a
    central dictionary (so for IBM, DEC, Oracle,... based applications).
    I'm afraid we have to wait for ATIS and IRDS to become reality and
    accepted by IBM and Oracle (if ever).
    
    
    Henny Olthof, EIS Holland

    I spent two days at an Oracle site, trying to convince them to try
    a DECtp product.  They had SQL*Forms, Case Dictionary and Oracle
    DB.  They were having problems with multiple data definitions in
    the Application code (mainly Cobol with embedded SQL), and wanted
    to find a sollution.
    
    They've now decided to extract Data definitions from Oracle DB into
    text files, edit these into the appropriate format, and load them
    into CDD/Plus.  They then link to the CDD for the record definitions
    required.
    
    Note, this is a stable application where support is the major issue.
    They are now playing with some third party 4gl packages using the
    run-time restricted Rdb kit.
    
    This isn't a clean way of introducing Digital products, but by using
    the back door, we're visible, we may be slow, but it works !
    
    Iain. 

    but it does open a chance to point to the "closed amd propriatary"
    nature of Oracle. We open our dictionary to 3rd parties, we support
    IRDS..  It is a valid argument with some customers.
    
    Barry

    DEC RdbAccess for ORACLE on VMS allows you to integrate the ORACLE
    data definitions into CDD/Plus.  It's easy.  Simply go into 
    Rdb SQL, connect to the ORACLE database, and type INTEGRATE.
    
    Voila, the definitions are added to CDD/Plus.
    
    RdbAccess for ORACLE will ship in November.  Look for the announcement
    in the 29 October issue of Competitive Sales Update.
    
      

    Re .5
    I also have been working with a large very advanced customer who has
    been using Oracle (not by their choice, but because of their contract
    requirements). They are very interested in CDD/Plus and the whole
    concept of metadata storage. Oracles product is purely manual and they
    are looking for an automated tool. 
    
    I just did a live demo of RdbAccess for Oracle and they were impressed.
    The fact that we can automatically store Oracle metadata in our
    CDD will be a strong selling feature.
    
    I have accounts that have done development in Oracle but they don't
    want to pay the license fee to distribute the application (and
    database) to multiple nodes. If customers are developing already in
    Oracle, then they can integrate the metadata into the CDD and build Run
    time Rdb databases on all of the remote nodes. WE GET THE VAX SALES AND
    ALL THE OTHER SOFTWARE PRODUCT SALES! THAT IS WHY THEY SHOULD BE
    AFRAID!
    
    Joe

    Re: .1
    
    I too think that CDD/Plus is slow. It is a great tool and holds a lot
    of customer interest. Engineering should work on performance.
    
    Joe