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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:	DEC Rdb against the World

Moderator:	HERON::GODFRIND

Created:	Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:	Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1348
Total number of notes:	5438

270.0. "Brain damaged customer!" by INFACT::DATZMAN (Indianapolis Field Applications Center) Tue Dec 13 1988 03:09

    I have a customer that is in the selection process for a new
    database system.  They currently have a very large installed
    base of 1032 databases on VAXes.
    
    They were considering RDB and SYBASE.  I have now been informed 
    that they are considering SYBASE and ORACLE.  The reason for
    the change, they stated, was that RDB does not run on multiple
    hardware platforms (DEC, IBM, PCs, etc.).

    The strange thing is that initially, all of these databases
    will be used in a *VAXcluster*.  They also are not sure of
    the other platforms that they will eventually running the databases
    on, nor are they sure when this will occur.
    
    How do I cope with this type of customer?  They are totally
    ignoring ease of integrating, maintenace, integrity, etc
    and are going for the "hot items" like 2 phase commits and
    triggers.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    
    Dick

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
270.1	ORACLE doesn't have 2PC or Triggers!	COOKIE::BERENSON	VAX Rdb/VMS Veteran	`Tue Dec 13 1988 19:16`	8
	> How do I cope with this type of customer? They are totally > ignoring ease of integrating, maintenace, integrity, etc > and are going for the "hot items" like 2 phase commits and > triggers. Have you considered a PID on Rdb/VMS futures? They might find it hot enough for their tastes.
270.2	Some competitive strategies	DEBIT::DREYFUS		`Tue Dec 13 1988 19:42`	28
	Stress interoperability over portability - take full advantage of VAX hardware with a VAX database. - take full advantage of future hardware with a database appropriate to that hardware. - allow interoperability through databases supporting the RDA (remote database standard) such as Rdb. - allow application portability through the tools that run in heterogenous environments such as Ingres. Stress performance in a cluster. - Sybase can't access a database from multiple nodes - Oracle performs very poorly Stress online backup - Sybase doesn't have it. - Oracle uses VMS backup in a very confusing and unreliable manner Stress database design tools - Rdb allows you to preview your query plans so that you know what the database is doing. - Get a PID to see the very exciting new developments in the area of physical database design. Take a look at some of the Articles on competing with Oracle and Sybase in this notes file (reprints of Competitive Update articles). --david
270.3	How do you fight egos?	INFACT::DATZMAN	Indianapolis Field Applications Center	`Tue Dec 13 1988 20:24`	13
	Thanks guys. We did have a non disclosure a couple of month ago discussing some of the upcoming features. While they were impressed they still view DEC as "not at the front in database technology". We have some egotistic members on the customer side that refuse to recognize the important issues that you mentioned. We even offerd to convert one of their applications (1032) to RDB for free, but they didn't go for it. You have given me some ideas though. Dick
270.4	$$$ is everything	IND::NG	Thomas K. Ng, NYFD, 334-2435	`Thu Dec 15 1988 16:31`	35
	re: .3 >How do you fight egos? I can fully understand you feeling toward this situation...helpless... want to squeeze the st out of that Sybase/Oracle Ah*le and that egocentric maniac. I've been through a few of those. How you fight depends on how much you want to win (or more acurately, how much your want RDB to be in the account instead of Oracle/Sybase), because there will be a lot of work ahead. There are a host of RDB technical advantages over other third party products such as those mentioned by David (re: .2). And you can check other sources for more of those. However, there are other steps you may try. Have you considered doing a complete 3-5 year cost of ownership study which translates the RDB advantages into $$$ terms? The licensing and maintanance fees themselves should give you something to show. Do you customers have IBM data which they want to access? You can show them big development/integration savings. Then you can show them to your customer and tell him that you will cc the numbers to his boss (or maybe his boss's boss if you have such a relationship). If your customer is in a competitive business (meaning not a non-profit organization), then savings ($$$$) should open their eyes. Thomas P.S. - You may have an internal selling job to do to convince your sales rep that winning with RDB is important. A lot of my reps don't want to jeopardize a sure hardware order for an extra RDB license which is probably less than 5% of the total dollars, especially considering the amount of work that he/she will have to do.