Conference koolit::vms_curriculum

    Hi Val, 
    
    When will the "VMS for Hardware Operations" book (? title ?) be added to all
    the SYSNET courses (or at least the first course in the string?)

    
    
    I would like to see the students get both the "Users Manual" and the
    "System Managers Manual" in the first course.  Then, they should be
    instructed to bring these materials with them for II and III.
    
    	Greg

    Roger Towne asked me to put the question this way: 
    
         If we limit ourselves to handing out just one VMS
         manual on each course, what manual would that be? 
   
   

   One suggestion for the Sys/Net courses:
   
   Sys/Net I:  VMS User's Manual
   Sys/Net II: VMS System Manager's Manual
   Sys/Net III: VMS VAXcluster Manual and VMS Networking Manual
   		(of course this bends the rule in .3)
   
   A possible alternative to the VMS System Manager's manual is the
   Guide to Setting Up a VMS System (for week II) and the Guide to
   Maintaining a VMS System (for week III). Users would then have to
   rely on on-line help for utility-specific information.
   
   Roger asked that any other suggestions be made by 11/22 (a week
   from Friday) so the US Area can start finalizing its book lists.
   
   					Val

    
    
    I assume the "issue" is the cost of the manuals.  Can someone please
    post what the "cost" of a User's manual and System Manager's Manual is? 
    
    
    	Greg
    
    

    What about including the new guide to _____ (the book that includes hw
    specific CCL stuff for models from the 3xxx-9xxx)...? Where does this
    book get fit in or does it do so at the cost of a users or system
    managers manual??  There seems to be enough of a price jump on tuition 
    with the Sysnet II from the existing SysmgrI to cover the cost of
    giving more than one manual...
    
    ih

    That book (Hardware for VMS Systems: Operations Guide) is in the 
    BOM for Sys/Net I, Sys/Net III, and Operator.

    
    I think that they really need the Vaxcluster manual and the Networking
    manual in SysnetIII. I don't think that the guide to maintaining
    a system should be an alternative to those two.
           I also think that the Guide to Setting up a System
    is good, but the problem is that I really think they will
    want the system managers reference manual. They do refer to
    that quite often in lab in SmI right now.  To me, they need that
    for SysnetII as well.
    
    Wendy Mullenhoff
    Washington DC

    Apart from the book mentioned by Val at 119.7 I wouldn't give away
    manuals.
    
    Observe how YOU use VMS and how often YOU have to refer to formal
    documentation. The on-line HELP provided should bale us out of 99% of
    the day-to-day amnesia. A good test of how you use VMS is to have your
    library of documentation a long way from your desk. You soon get to use
    HELP effectively. (How often is the volume not in the library when you
    want it?)
    
    Perhaps our course materials could provide more help on HELP.
    Indicate the appropriate topic, subtopic, sub-subtopic...
    
    Instructors could add this value to their deliveries.
    Or during demos occasionally issue a command with the wrong qualifier
    and/or value.
    Demonstrate the use of HELP to solve the problem. You MUST know the
    solution in advance! Works fine for me - at least the QAs reckon so.
    Also proves you're human - and fallable!
    
    Visits to customer sites have revealed course documentation unopened
    and still wrapped in its plastic outer. Why? We call across to someone
    we reckon knows the answer or use HELP. Often the documentation
    doesn't provide an index into the "How to..." problem that has arisen.
    
    Programmers have plenty of help for system calls and if they use 
    VAX LSE they shouldn't need a manual at all.
    
    An observation from some of the courses I've taught where one or more
    manuals have been given away. If the instructor doesn't refer to the
    documentation it provokes a comment to that effect on the QA - 
    "Instructor didn't refer/use course documentation..."

    
    
    
    	I believe Keith's response only points out again the difference
    	in experiences one has.  I have found that not only do my
    	students use their manuals in class, they also have them out and
    	available at their job sites.  
    
    	I do agree with Keith that Help adds the immediate response
    	alternative to questions one has.  However, in three years 
    	of instructing for digital I have already replaced my VMS users
    	manual and SYSTEM management manual two times.  
    
    	I am not sure whether this indicates an abnormally unusual brain
    	density on my part or not.  Regardless, these are tools I find
    	useful, and as such I have students use them regularly in 
    	classes.
    
     	Regarding manual costs:
    
    		There is nothing wrong with placing some responsiblity
    		on students who return for SYSNET II/III by asking 
    		they bring their previous course material.  
    		(VMS USER GUIDE to SYSNET II, VMS MANGERS manual to
    		III).  
    	
    		However, how do we accomidate individuals who have
    		not taken the preceeding course?
    
    		Best to include the one manual as suggested in earlier
    		replies.
    
    	To this end:
    
    		SYSNET I	VMS Users Guide
    		SYSNET II	VMS Managers Manual
    		SYSNET III	CLUSTER and NETWORK book  
    				(ok, so it breaks .3, but we have 
    				something more important than manual 
    				cost to consider....unhappy customers
    				don't return to spend more money on 
    				us!).
    
    
    	Jason.

    I agree with note 119.2.  Give the students "users Manual" and "system
    Managers Manual" in the first course.  Have Them bring the books
    to future courses.  For those who have not taken sysnet I, but are
    taken sysnet II, put them in the Bridge packet. 
    
    Hardware Operations Guide for VMS systems is a great info source,
    but as a teaching aid it is not needed.  I have taught  sysnet I
    twice but have not used this book in my presentation.  I could have
    and should have had "System Managers Manual".  It would have been
    very helpful to the class.  It would have helped with Authorize,
    sysgen and Backup. I vote we drop "HOG for VMS systems" and put
    System Managers Manual in.
    
    Chuck Naughton
    

  Agreed.  The HW book is more useful in the later courses, especially in
  chapter 2 of SN3.
  
  $

    Can somebody tell me the order number of the book,
    "Hardware for VMS systems: Operations Guide"?
    
    We don't normally give away any reference books other than the 
    student guide/exercises. At times, I do bring in some reference
    manuals to class. The book reader is another resource we have.
    
    /Henry.

>>    Can somebody tell me the order number of the book,
>>    "Hardware for VMS systems: Operations Guide"?
    
    The number is EY-G995E-DA.0001 and the official title is "Hardware
    Operations Guide for VMS Systems".
    
>>    We don't normally give away any reference books other than the 
>>    student guide/exercises. At times, I do bring in some reference
>>    manuals to class. The book reader is another resource we have.
    
    I would certainly not recommend to give this HW guide away. It is very
    thick and heavy. The contents is highly interesting, although students
    will only be interested in their specific VAXen. We keep a number of 
    reference copies in the classroom. 
    
    
    			Rob

    Rob,
    
    Is the book more like the one which comes with standard VMS
    documentation on VMS installations and descriptions of different
    processor types, or is it a separate manual?
    
    Rgds,
    Henry.

    Henry,
    
>>    Is the book more like the one which comes with standard VMS
>>    documentation on VMS installations and descriptions of different
>>    processor types, or is it a separate manual?
    
    The "Hardware Operations Guide" is a book developed by DCD (the former
    ESD&P), I even think Andy funded it. It has an EY number and refers to
    usage in courses, so it is definitely E.S..
    
    I am not in detail familiar with the manual in the standard DOC set,
    but let me give you a quick rundown on what is in the HW Ops Gde.
    
    About this guide
    Chap 1 VAX 9000 system (20p)
    Chap 2 VAX 8820, 8830, 8840 (20p)
    Chap 3 VAX 8600, 8650 (32p)
    Chap 4 VAX 8530, 8550, 8810, 8820-N Systems (24p)
    Chap 5 VAX 8200, 8300 (51p)
    Chap 6 VAX 6000 (33p)
    Chap 7 VAX-11/780 and VAX-11/785 (35p)
    Chap 8 VAX-11/750 (43p)
    Chap 9 �VAX 3400, 3600, 3900 (46p)
    Chap 10 VAXstation 3520, 3540 (16p)
    Chap 11 VAXstation, �VAX 3100 (36p)
    Chap 12 VAXstation, �VAX 2000 (20p)
    Chap 13 VAXstaion II, II/GPX, �VAX II (42p)
    Chap 14 Peripherals (26p)
    
    All chapters seem to cover Console Commands and Standalone Backup. Not
    all of them go into I/O bus configurations and in general the level of
    detail varies among the chapters. Total book contains 534 pages (!!!),
    including titel pages and index. The chapters contain many intersting
    diagrams and tables.
    
    The sheer size of it held us back in putting this guide into the Bill
    of Materials for any of the Sysnet courses. The instructors asked me to
    provide them with a set of guides to be used in the classroom as
    reference. We probably will give one or two away to those that claim
    they really want it. It would help if we could break it down into
    separate documents per VAX family. A Student could then choose the ones
    he wants to have (to take back to the office).
    
    Have you got the picture?
    
    			Rob

    Rob,
    
    It sounds like the standard VMS documentation on installation
    and different CPU descriptions. Thanks for the information.
    
    /Henry.

    Please see topic 37.* for the history of the Hardware Operations Guide.
    
    Yes, we primarily used the sources from the "VMS Installation and
    Operations" manuals in the VMS doc set, with material from hardware
    documentation in a few places. The idea was to whittle the material
    down to something manageable and free of redundancy, but obviously it
    could use a lot more whittling.
    
    					Val
    

    Val,
    
    Thanks for the pointer. It surely sheds light on the book.
    
    	/Henry.

    
    
    
    Just went back and re-read all the responses here.  
    
    There has been a generous amount of debate, yet I have not seen any
    resolution.  Is there a deadline stated somewhere I missed (I read all
    these quickly).  If so, have we passed it?  If so  (I like nested
    if's), what has been determined?
    
    just call me curious.
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Jason.