Conference govt02::basingstoke

    Happens all the time....its because there are no penalties for parking
    in a disabled space in a private car park, eg: parking ticket..
    It happened last year in the multi storey, the bays are clearly
    marked but were still filled with morons cars who don't want to
    walk an extra few yards, and it was then that NCP said that they
    have no way of enforcing that only disabled drivers park there.
    
    My suggestion is wheel clamps and the fine money could go to a 
    relevant charity....

No clamps don't damage the cars: the best solution is the US one - a large sign
that says that the bays are for disabled drivers only and that other cars will
be towed at the owners expense and risk.

Since the tow driver has to break into the car to disengage the brake and ensure
the car isn't in gear, the bill is thus substantial:

	towing,
	storage,
	new side window,
	etc etc etc...

plus it takes a long time to get to the pound (usually half a state away) and 
get the car back...

/. Ian .\

    
    Towing away is a pain, but if the intent is to damage the pocket
    of the driver then damaging the car won't help much. So many of
    these people are company car drivers (people are more careful with
    their own) that it will be their employers who will bear the cost
    of the damage.
    
    Clamping sounds just fine to me, but double the release charge for
    people parking in disabled bays.
    
    Mark
    
    PS And in DEC car parks too!

In case you hadn't got the point when you clamp a moron you immobilize them
IN THE DISABLED PERSONS SPACE.

Towing costs them money (and if its a company car it should be passed on), 
time and effort, but much more importantly 

		IT RELEASES THE SPACE FOR ITS INTENDED USE!

/. Ian .\

    
    Yep, good point Ian, I can't be think too clearly today.
    
    I made that very point in CARS_UK a few months back! :^)
    
    Mark

English Law being what it is, you'll probably find that, since the idiot 
is on private land, if you break into his car to move it, he can sue you 
for all the damage!
Only the police seem to be able to get away with that sort of thing.

A better solution might be something like a fork-lift, that just whisks 
his car away without damage, and puts it somewhere inconvenient. 

Ian

    One of the methods used in a particular large and popular carpark
    in Croydon is to slide little trolley things under each wheel of the
    offending car and wisk it away - no damage, but a large fine (I think
    it was about �30 last year).
    
    Rob

        > -< Stick a skateboard under each wheel! >-

    	I doubt Derek Mitchell would want you to use his 23 in this
    	way !!! :^)
    
    	Mark

    Isn't wheel clamping a bit counter productive in the sense that
    it keeps the car in the parking space that is supposed to be being
    left free. Towing away doesn't have this problem and a non-trivial
    fine that would accompany it would hopefully dissuade someone from
    doing it again.
    
    However, have we put our own house in order? Occasionally I've seen
    cars parked in silly places in the car park and all they've got
    is tame notices reminding them that they shouldn't park there.

    I have a suggestion -
    
    Why not print a notice for the driver explaining the inconvenience
    caused to disabled drivers and expressing dismay at his/her lack
    of social consience.
    
    This may not tug at the heart strings of that sort of person, but
    if the notice were printed on sticky paper of the sort that doesn't
    peel off without leaving a mess (you know the sort of thing they
    print price labels on - take hours to scrape off and destroy your
    fingernails) then the driver would be put to considerable inconvenience
    with no actual damage being done.
    
    

    
    It still wouldn't get the offending vehicle away from the space !

    True - but vengeance is sweet.
    
    If word got round that you were likely to have to spend an hour
    or so cleaning your windscreen, this would be a great dis-incentive
    - prevention rather than cure
    
    
    Andrew
    

    
    I agree that the disabled spaces should only be used by disabled
    drivers. I have seen people park in them without batting an eye-lid
    and they seem to be able to walk alright so I doubt if they were
    disabled.
    
    It is a shame that they don't seem to appreciate what it must be
    like to be disabled and to have to walk/wheel your wheelchair from
    the other end of the car park, its bad enough when you don't have
    a disability.
    
    Maybe there are some drivers who don't notice the large disabled
    symbol painted on the tarmac. A good idea might be to put large
    disabled signs along the centre line (i.e. between the two rows
    of spaces) where they could not be missed.
     
    Bye
    
    Trevor

Just a small point: disabled badges are not only issued to people who are 
visibly disabled: apart from the obvious case of being able to get one if you
have artificial legs (Douglas Bader walked OK on two artificial legs without
using crutches or walking sticks), you can also get them for example if you have
a severe heart condition, or breathing problems such as asthma or emphysema.

I have one (having been shot in the leg I am officially classed as partially 
disabled and "walking impaired" - I occasionally need a walking stick to manage 
stairs). That said I virtually never use it, since I always figure that there 
are so few spaces and there might very well be somebody who needs the space 
more than me.

/. Ian .\

PS: you can also get a badge if you are fully fit but transport somebody who 
would qualify, but doesn't or can't drive. In this case you may only use the
badge when actually transporting the disabled person.

re< Note 241.14 by SAC::PHILPOTT_I "Col I F 'Tsingtao Dhum' Philpott" >
>
>That said I virtually never use it, since I always figure that there 
>are so few spaces and there might very well be somebody who needs the space 
>more than me.

   It's so nice to find someone who has some concern for others.
   Well done.

Hi,

If they are not disabled then make them so!!!

This can mean many things but it really winds me up to see people parking in 
disabled slots. I dont know of any effective solutions apart from legislation
that would impose hefty fines or, dare I say it, a BAN. You dont actually have
to ban people just the threat is enough.

Another solution is the hefty fine whereby enough money is taken out to cover
costs and the rest .... well I dont know, donate it to charity?

However, the problem still remains that the slot is occupied and so the car 
should be dragged away and who cares about damage. If it is a company car and 
the driver continually has his car in for repairs because its been towed away
I think most companinies might have a word with this person!!

If all else fails, break their legs and then they can apply for a card.

thoughts??

Larry (just to the right of adolf hitler) wiltshire

    
    Re .16
    
    Surely you'd have to ban someone, or the threat would be perceived
    as empty.
    
    Mark 

    Re .-1
    
    Agreed, a threat is not enough. It must be seen to be carried out.
    
    In my opinion there should be far less discretion about such
    punishments otherwise the "I'll get away with only a warning" mentality
    arises. Even for first time offenders, it's got to hurt.

    (By the way I don't own or drive or car so this is easy for me to
     say.)
        
    Re .-16
    
    I'm not into vandalism. A fine could cost as much as the repairs
    without the money lining the pockets of car mechanics. A straight
    fine could be more usefully employed (e.g. as noted - to charity).

    Nope - you've got to tow them away and fine them.
    
    The only reason people abuse the disable parking spaces is because
    they are convenient.  If you inconvenience the swine by towing their
    cars away _and_ imposing a heavy fine to recover the vehicle
    (preferably with a couple of days paperwork delay involved!) they'll
    stop doing it.
    
    Jon
    
    p.s. I don't think you should break people's legs because this action
    will lead to an increase in the number of disabled drivers which
    will lead to a need to increase the number of disabled spaces which
    will lead to increased opportunity for people to abuse them which
    will lead to a need to break more people's legs which .........