Conference 7.286::digital

>  Several people have hinted over the last few years that they have had such
>an experience, with the creditor saying that one's job at Digital is too in-
>secure to be used as the basis for a loan, mortgage, or rental. Or (worse) 
>that the company itself is about to fail. This sort of thing scares me. 
    
    Which just goes to show that innuendo is a powerful tool. There are all
    kinds of idiots in this world, some of which were questioning DEC's
    survival as far back as I can remember. 
    
    What counts here is confidence in yourself. Forget DEC for  a moment
    and consider whether you have the tools that make you valuable to a
    company in this day and age. You do? Then DEC will either love you or
    leave you but you can get a job and thus pay the bills. That has been
    my reply to naysayers - if I didn't have the ability, I wouldn't get
    paid. If you DON'T have these tools, then I guess you should start
    acquiring them - fast. Being deadwood is the kind of thing that would
    scare me.
    
    /a

RE: "What counts here is confidence in yourself." - and 
    "Being deadwood is the kind of thing that would
    scare me."

So you belive a bank base their policies on your 
selfconfident and your subjective perception on your ability, and
not on your actual income and other facts, like the risk of your 
potential unemployment...  dream on...

RE: Base entry:
I have not been refused loans as a Digital employee, but have been told 
from a bank, that Digital employees was not preffered customer for loans, 
as they were at high risk for loosing their jobs... 
 


 
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    I'd say that in the US, this would have to be total rot.
    
    No bank has the time to run financials on a loan applicant's
    employer.  They're happy if you have had a job for over a year.
    
    I re-financed twice in the heat of the melt-down, and never so much as
    an eye brow got lifted.  And I live in a neighborhood a bank might
    consider "red-lining" if they could get away with it.
    
    You could count the number of apartment owners that have heard of
    Digital on one hand.  (At least before Alta Vista :^).
    
    You are too easily scared.  Go out and apply for a few loans.  When the
    financial community gets wind of your interest in borrowing, you'll
    need a stick.
    
    Frank

    RE-.0 
    
    Go to a large lender like G.E. Capitol Mortgage Services where Digital
    is a large customer. Thats what I did when I refinanced 3 years ago.
    got a great rate and no problems. They can be reached at 1800-222-0238.
    
    They know that no job is safe and they have had their share of layoffs
    since Neutron Jack took over G.E.
    
    Hope this helps.

The mortgage market is very competitive right now,
I don't think they can afford to care about such things.

I didn't have any problem.

-Mike

    I just got a brand new mortgage this past March.  We were making news
    about layoffs about that time, and I got asked if I was in danger (no)
    and what i would do if i lost this job (get another one).  This was
    enough for the person who took the application.  The underwiter was so
    happy not to be doing another FHA loan (te Syracuse area is
    sufficiently depressed that VERY few people can aford to buy a house
    under anything but FHA programs) that she never even asked.
    
    The second answer there goes for everyone.  If anyone ever asks, your
    answer is that you'll get another job.  Period.  It's a reality of the
    job market today, and lenders are aware of that.  What they wanted me
    to show was just that I could - ie had the skills - so i'll agree with
    the earlier poster that says if your skills aren't current enough to
    GET another job, then you should worry.
    
    Becki
    

    so, is there any chance that the loan officer or landlord is not
    sharing you their true thoughts?  Like maybe, "You have a bad credit
    record."  Or maybe they're sexist and use the "Digital->bad" line to
    cover their real reason.
    
    Mark

    re .6, what is an FHA program loan?

    Let's separate the frustration and outrage from the facts. 
    
    First of all, the bank's or lending institution's attitude regarding
    your security against a potential loan is based on a number of things,
    including your employment. The higher the mortgage amount requested as
    a percentage of your income, the higher the risk. Secondly, is the home
    you are considering at middle of the market or top end. Third, how
    important is Digital to the specific local economy. And how is that
    economy overall. Several yeara=s ago when DEC was downsizing and
    everyone else was crapping out, job replacement did not seem viable.
    Foreclosures were a daily thing. Fourth, what is the
    bank's general posture, ultra-conservative or liberal. Fifth, what
    other financial commitments and sources of income are at play? How's
    mortgage money at the moment - loose or tight? What kind of money are
    they using? Is it Fannie Mae? If so, there are sometimes some wierd rules 
    applied to loan approvals. 
    
    The point is......
    
    Lending institutions' concern with the viability of your employer can be
    real. Calling  it stupid does nothing to solve the problem nor make it
    go away. I refinanced several years ago and my wife and I both had to get
    statements from Digital that we were not in current jeopardy.
    (Ironically, she was TSFOed several months later and I'm out of here
    tomorrow.)
    
    If in the eyes of the lender, you are at the upper side of the salary
    range in the area and you debt to equity ratio is tight, and your
    chosen home is not easily re-marketed due to location or price range,
    then all kinds of odd things will pop up in the loan approval process. 
    
    So, what to do?
    
    I switched to a mortgage broker vs going through "my" bank. The broker
    found a national lender, less concerned about local conditions. We got
    around the problem - but is WAS a problem.
    
    Be persistent; be creative; don't give up. If denied, try again. You'll
    get through it. 
    
    Good Luck   

This situation is not new - it existed when the first TFSO rounds were in 
effect.

				Steve

One of the blessings of not living in the Greater Maynard Area, is that
no one knows who/what Digital is.  Hence no such discrimination.

    Gee, the DCU mortgage department still believes in us...  :-)
    
    -Mark

>    re .6, what is an FHA program loan?

  FHA stands for Federal Housing Administration (among other things). It is
a federally subsidized program for mortgages.

>                      <<< Note 4745.9 by BRAT::MONBLEAU >>>

>    go away. I refinanced several years ago and my wife and I both had to get
>    statements from Digital that we were not in current jeopardy.
>    (Ironically, she was TSFOed several months later and I'm out of here
>    tomorrow.)
    
  I'm sorry .9 is leaving. I would have liked to ask, how did you get a state-
ment saying you were not in current jeopardy? Did you simply ask your manager
to write this statement, or was it more complicated?
  Have others been asked by lenders to get similar statements?
  Fortunately, I don't need a loan at the moment and I don't plan to buy a
house anytime soon. I asked .0 mainly out of curiosity, and to help prepare
others for possible problems.

    There was a time [1982] when I was just married with now 3 children and
    living in a home with someone elses name on the mortgage that I walked
    into a car dealer, pulled out my badge and got the royal treatment on
    buying a new car.
    
    DEC was considered a secure place to work then. The conversation tide
    has turned. If the information is really used as a determiner I can't
    say, but the questions are asked. and in a negative fashion.
    
    Howard 

    Re: .14
    
    Early this CY we took advantage of some attractive refi opportunities.
    
    The 2 banks that we used required a statement of employment status. 
    This had nothing to do with *Digital*, but is a common verification
    procedure (in addition to showing recent pay stubs).
    
    Both banks sent form letters to Digital HR.  When HR returns the forms
    it merely makes a statement (in effect) that "This employee is currently 
    employed...".  Binary response that doesn't indicate any risk factor on
    where the person or person's group is in the strategic mix.
    
    BT

  This really doesn't relate to this string but the company I worked for
  before Digital didn't make it.  The news was bad just before chapter 11.

  I had the habit of depositing my paycheck with "cash back".  You can even
  do that at ATMs these days.  Well, one day the bank refused to honor that
  transaction.  Basically my paycheck was considered no good.  I had to
  deposit the entire check and then write a personal check on my account to
  get some walking around money.

  I guess the theory is that if the company goes belly-up they can always
  hold you, the individual, accountable.

  It wasn't a very good feeling.

  	mikeP

re: .7 denied because 'digital is bad'

I'm sure that if you got a WRITTEN statement from which they are required
to give you stating that your loan was not approved because of the 
stability of Digital that Legal would enjoy fixing our stability on the
back of that bank. Big law suite, Big Settlement out of court, Digital gets
the money, You get nothing or maybe TFSO'ed 

    Warren,
    
    You know that won't happen.  Besides, why do you think that Digital
    Legal would go to bat against a bank or a landlord for an employee?
    This ain't the Free Lawyers Foundation.
    
    Mark

They wouldn't be going to bat for the employee, They could care less about
the employee, what they have is a statement in writing from a big pockets
institution stating that 'digital isn't fiscally sound'. This is a legal
document for the purposes of dening a loan. It could be taken as libel, 
*unless digital isn't fiscally sound* 

What I was trying to get across is that NO loan company would be stupid 
enough to try to use Digital's fiscal position to deny a loan. At least
the current position. We have no long term debt to speak of compared to
other corporations our size. 

Re .-1
>> stating that 'digital isn't fiscally sound'.

I don't think that was what was claimed, but rather that a job a Digital was
tenuous due to large numbers of impending layoffs.  It's not the same thing.

						Brian

    I used to work in the banking industry.  I worked for a service bureau
    that was owned by a consortium of banks.  I dealt with loan officers
    all the time -- I maintained the loan system.
    
    It turns out that loan officers use all sorts of subjective criteria to
    evaluate a borrower.  For example, one fellow that I knew was denied a
    loan because his father had declared bankruptcy four years prior to the
    son applying for the loan.  Mind you that the son and his wife had
    good jobs and made good money.  This is what person-to-person banking
    gets you.
    
    Consumer banks on the other hand instead make use of quantitative
    methods to determine credit worthiness.  Only when you get into
    mortgages do you start seeing a more detailed examination of your work
    history.  Even then, a consumer mortgage company will stick as much as
    possible to quantitative evaluation techniques and use private mortgage
    insurance to make up the mistakes.
    
    

    .11 and .18
    
    Being denied a loan based on PERCEIVED ability to return those funds is
    not discrimination.  Discrimination is based on race, creed, color,
    familial status in the area of equal opportunity in loans.  There would
    likely be no law suit as mortgage companies can and will decide for
    themselves what a high risk loan may be.  I am not a lawyer, but am a
    licensed Realtor in Maryland and have to be very familiar with
    anti-discrimitory practices.
    
    Bryan

>    Being denied a loan based on PERCEIVED ability to return those funds is
>    not discrimination. ...

It most certainly is...

>                       ... Discrimination is based on race, creed, color,
>    familial status in the area of equal opportunity in loans.  

                    ... and so are these


> ...  I am not a lawyer, but am a licensed Realtor in Maryland ..

Well, whether your a doctor, lawyer or indian chief (as the old saw goes)
you, like most other people, fail to discrimiate between "discrimination",
which is not illegal, per se, and specific types of discrimination which
ARE illegal.

And illegal or not, being discrminated agains just because of being employed
by Digital is pretty sad.