Conference 7.286::digital

    >> I submit to you that if the death of your Father-in-law is worthy of
    >> 3 days bereavement, then flowers should also be sent.
    
    Sorry to be so harsh, but Digital is not a charity. The fact we allow
    flowers to be sent at all is, I imagine, something many other companies
    do not do.
    
    
    
     

    Could you enlighten me? What contributions is your spouse making to 
    Digital? Mine puts up with me taking a job that, at times, has somewhat
    irregular hours, or requires me to be away from home a few days here
    and there. Most likely not as bad as your hours and travel etc. in case
    anyone should ask. But I have never asked her to do some work for
    Digital. This job, by the way, pays better than most 9-5 jobs and my
    family can afford therefor a few more things than most families with 9-5
    jobs.
    
    I hereby propose that Digital does not send $30 worth of flowers to
    anyone under these circumstances, but applies it such that employees
    can afford to buy $30 worth of flowers themselves if they feel that
    that is appropriate and needed. I would like Digital to continue to be
    interested in the feelings and well-being of it's employees, but I
    think that a card does just as well.
    
    Al
        

    
    	Sorry for your loss, but I have to agree with .1 and .2. 
    
    ed

    
    
    
    GEESH...you guys are harsh!  I guess DEC really has turned into IBM...
    (or DIGITAL....)   :-(
    

 
    RE: 
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|                      PERSONNEL                          Section 4.15         |
|                                                         Page  1 of 2         |
|               POLICIES AND PROCEDURES                   Effective 04-NOV-91  |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Death in Family

    
    Note the effective date (Nov, 1991). My father died in 1991, and the
    $30 bouquet I recieved was tiny; I imagine that by now a $30 bouquet
    is even smaller (when one considers that FTD or delivery costs probably
    also have to come out of that $30.)
    
    Deb

    
    	Now for $30, the FTD rep comes to your door, says "Sorry about
    	your loss", and leaves.
    
    	For another $30, you might get some flowers.
    

    Well, let's see; in the past four years I have lost my father, mother
    and brother.  I didn't get bereavement leave for my father's death
    because I was on disability at the time; I did get the three days for
    both my mother and brother.  At no time did I get flowers or a donation
    to a favorite charity or a note from the president.  I think I would
    have been shocked if this had occurred given the state of the company
    over the past few years.  It's nice to know that there is some
    provision for it in policy, however.

    RE: .7
    
    I believe flowers/donations are coordinated out of corporate, once
    they're notified. I would think the employee's manager or secretary
    provides the information (name, location, relation, etc) to corporate
    (HR?) and corporate takes it from there.
    
    kjg

    My mother died this past December.  I received flowers at the funeral
    and later a letter from Bob Palmer which both gave me comfort.  The letter 
    from Palmer came as a surprise.  It was nice to receive an official
    acknowledgement of my loss.  I believe that my manager contacted the 
    appropriate people for all of this to happen.  I don't know who those people
    are or how he knew who to contact.  But I really appreciated his and the 
    company's acknowledgements.
    
    Lauren

    RE: .7

    / Well, let's see; in the past four years I have lost my father, mother
    / and brother.  I didn't get bereavement leave for my father's death
    / because I was on disability at the time; I did get the three days for
    / both my mother and brother.  At no time did I get flowers or a donation
    / to a favorite charity or a note from the president. 

    /  -< Just how does DEC know to send flowers? >-

    When my mother passed away three years ago, one of the managers in my
    group asked me for the name of the church where my mother's funeral
    was being held so that he could make the appropriate contacts for the
    flowers to be sent.  (I believe that Personnel actually made the
    arrangements.)  My family greatly appreciated this kindness.

    I also received a personal letter from KO with his condolences.

    (This is how Digital knows where/when to send flowers, etc.)

    
    re: last ten -
    
    
    	It is not because Digital is something, but rather because your
    manager is.
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    re .7 and .11
    
    <<It is not because Digital is something, but rather because your
    manager is.>>   *** and the secretary.
    
    The secretary, who is almost always the only one in the group who knows
    how to get flowers, card and letter sent to the family. And often without
    any prompting from the manager, goes ahead and makes the arrangements.
    
    
    
    

    Ah, yes, the forgotten secretary.  The mover behind the
    masses.  This person does contact the appropriate people
    to get the ball rolling on flowers, cards, etc...  With-
    out this person, groups do have to do the work themselves
    in order to honor one of their fellow employees during 
    their time of sorrow.  

    On the subject of bereavement leave, these three days can
    be taken at a later time if circumstances are such that 
    things need to be handled later.  Not all families do the
    in-the-ground stuff etc right after the death occurs.  The
    employee needs to work this issue with their manager.  It
    has been negotiated in some parts of Digital.  

    A quick call to your PSN can and does start the ball rolling
    now for anyone without secretarial support these days.  Just
    check with your manager to make sure that only one call gets
    placed.  Info gathering is required.  

    
    
    	When my mother died 2 years ago I did get a form letter
    	from Bob Palmer.  I was quite impressed!
    			Gordon Ripley

    
    Not to open a can of worms, but is three days always enough?
    In the Orange Book it states the three days must be consecutive.
    
    My father passed away six years ago on a Tuesday morning (about
    9:00-9:30am).  After my sister called me at the office, I immediately
    left to be with my family.  His funeral was that Friday.  That's 
    four days, three days bereavement and one day vacation.  BTW, I was 
    also working a parttime cashier job at the time; they gave me five 
    days.
    
    Last month my grandfather passed away.  Although he lived here
    in PA, he was buried in Nebraska.  Once again, I took off
    four days to fly out with my mother (it was her father) and 
    my sister for the graveyard services and the settle the issues
    around his property in NE. 
    
    In today's shrunk-down world, families have split and have 
    settled in all over the globe. 
                                 
    
    ---Mar()
    
    
                                                                  

    My condolences to the basenoter.  Times like these are hard enough
    without having to cope with any additional headaches.
    
    HAving said that, let me also say that I think Digital's policies are
    actually pretty decent in terms of sending flowers, condolences, etc. 
    Three days' bereavement leave doesn't sound like much, but I have
    worked places where you were expected to take vacation time.  I've also
    worked in companies/organizations where flowers, letters of condolence,
    etc., were just not done.  Period.  By *anyone.*  Sure, an individual
    group might chip in for flowers, send a card, etc., but to have a
    corporate policy seems pretty generous to me.  I grew up in a heavily
    industrialized area, and the expectation I was brought up with was, you
    work to the best of your ability, and in return the company pays you on
    time and dishes up decent benefits and promotions/pay raises. 
    Everything else is icing on the cake.  Sounds harsh, I guess, but
    that's been reality for me.
      
    

My father died this year on Febrauary 11. Digital donated
some money to a charitable Institute in the name of my father.
I also got a letter from Bob Palmer expressing his sympathy.
I also got greetings from the chatiy expressing thanks for the donation.
However you need to inform this to the appropriate person through
your secretary. Thins won't happen automatically.

-Sudhakar

A member of my team notified personnel when my father
died and I was given a choice of flowers or a charitable
donation. I chose the donation. Later I also recieved a
letter. It doesn't have to be the secretary. Anyone who
knows about the death can do the notification though I
don't know if they try to verify it. liesl

    
    We just got home from Kentucky where we buried my wife's father. I
    understand the tone of the first several replies. I tend to be somewhat
    hard-line also when it comes to what Digital spends money on.

    However, having just attended a funeral, I saw how important flowers
    are to the family. It's not the flowers, but the thought behind the
    flowers. I was asked numerous times, "Paul, did your company send any
    flowers? Hey Paul, which ones are from Digital?" 

    Explaining Digital policy in front of an open casket sucks!

    Anyway, I guess the point I'm making is... $30 is such a small amount
    to spend for the goodwill it generates. I know I could have sent
    flowers in Digital's behalf, but that seemed kind of deceitful at the
    time.

    Re: contributions spouses make... I travel and work a lot of OT. I
    don't think I need to explain further.

    Paul

>    are to the family. It's not the flowers, but the thought behind the
>    flowers. I was asked numerous times, "Paul, did your company send any
>    flowers? Hey Paul, which ones are from Digital?" 
>
>    Explaining Digital policy in front of an open casket sucks!
    
    This has come up in MANY areas in this notesfile - perhaps not as
    personally wrenching as this case, but there are many examples:
    
    Why doesn't Digital support employees to a sufficient extent that NOONE
    would ever purchase someone else's PC?  How do I explain that the PC in
    my home is a <insert favorite other vendor>?
    
    Why doesn't Digital have sufficient involvement in the community to
    provide matching grants for charitable contributions?  
    
    I'm sure others can come up with similar examples.  I don't know the
    answer to your question (or the others), but I agree that it isn't an
    especially comfortable feeling to have to explain the actions of your
    company, especially when there IS NO good explanation...

    Because we cannot afford to.
    
    

>    Because we cannot afford to.

For things like employees as an implicit salesforce, can we afford NOT to?
(I've had a number of people - visiting friends and relatives, mostly - ask
why I didn't buy a Digital PC, something which looks like it may happen
again.)

    
    
    I find it quite odd that people would as what flowers the company of a
    son-in-law sent.  Not to sound cold, but I don't see where it it would
    even be expected.  Especially a company of 60K employees.
    
    
    
    
    Mike

re: "I find it quite odd that people would as [sic] what flowers the
company of a son-in-law sent."

I was thinking the same thing. I don't recall socre-carding flowers at
any of the numerous funerals I have been to, but that's me.

One other thought, re: "It's not the flowers, but the thought behind
the flowers." If I were concerned with value, I'd rather a donation to
a charity than flowers. I think that the thought behind a bunch of
corporate flowers is about on a par with the guy who delivers 'em, aka
nil.

Pete

    I also have gone through this sad situation, having lost both of my
    parents, a few years ago, and last month having my wife lose both of
    hers, within two weeks of each other.
    
    When I lost mine there were plenty of flowers from our friends at
    digital, from various offices where we had worked.  There were no
    flowers from Digital.  There was not even an acknowledgment  from Ken
    Olsen on the death of my Father, but I did receive two on the passing
    of my mother.
    
    My wife is a former employee, rightsized after 7 years.  Again there
    was no official Digital acknowledgement or flowers sent when she lost
    her mother.  Two weeks later , her father passed away.  Again all the
    flowers were from the friends we had acquired. 
    
    Bottom line is that the joy of the sharing the expression of love and
    concern from our friends far outweighed the coldness perceived from our
    company.  
    
    I, too expected more, but then again, I've been disappointed before,
    also.
    
    Joe
                                                          

I worked for DuPont when my mother died.  I received flowers from my
co-workers.  I knew them, and was happy to receive acknowledgement from people
I knew, who I had a reason to believe actually cared.  I doubt it would have
had the same meaning had it come out of the official flower-sending policy from
the company with some form letter from the upper echelons of the company, even
signed by the president in the middle of signing the five-year service awards.
This is a personal matter, and official anything doesn't cut it for me.

						Brian

    To Whom It May Concern:
    
    If you are reading this, I am dead. That's a period, not a comma, let
    it go.
    
    Forget the funeral. They're dreary. For the over-emotional, they risk
    dehydration. If you must congregate for some symbolic farewell, do it
    in New Orleans. Ask a local band to play "Oh didn't he ramble."
    If they don't ask why, stay to the last set. Enjoy.
    
    Forget the donations. Death should never motivate gifts to the living. 
    
    Forget the flowers. Why compound the deaths? Instead go find a flower
    patch, a grove, a rocky outcrop. Doze. Dance. Or simply be there.
    
    For remember: as above,
    		  so below.
    
    
    Blessed be.
    

    
    	RE: -1
    
    	At the risk of sounding inhumane,
    
    	well put.  My feelings exactly.
    

    My father died a few weeks ago. Some co-workers sent flowers and even
    though my Mom had asked for donations in lieu of flowers, I'm glad
    people sent flowers. We ended up with at least 12 arrangements,
    including some baskets of plants (as opposed to cut flowers), which not
    only added color at the church, but also around the house. I think it
    helped my Mom, "seeing" expressions of sympathy, even if she had
    requested otherwise. She's also mentioned that she's been overwhelmed
    by the number of cards she has received, especially from people that
    she would never have expected to hear from. It is helping her, knowing
    that many people had enough regard for my father and for her to send
    some type of note.
    
    Yesterday I received the letter from Palmer's office, expressing
    sympathy and mentioning that a donation was made to the indicated
    charity. I know this is a probably a form letter that is signed by
    someone in the office, but there was still a small piece of me that
    felt good to receive it.
    
    Sometimes, even if you don't think you want them, little gestures can
    make a difference. 
    
    Everyone has a different thought on what's appropriate for a time such
    as this. And each family is different in it's relationships. But,
    sometimes an in-law (mother, father, etc.) passing away can be as
    painful, if not more painful, than your own family member. I would have
    to agree with the earlier noters that, even if it is a small token, it
    would be nice for some recognition by the company of the passing of the
    spouse's family. 
    
    I'd rather be measured as "a company that sets the standard or goes
    beyond the standard" vs. "well, no one else does it, why should we".
    Humanity and corporate life do not have to be exclusive of each other.
    

    Janet,
    
    You are not alone..I agree that Digital should acknowledge an employees
    loss.  I think it shows that somewhere along the way we are not just
    badge numbers.
    
    Melody

    
    Another vote for compassion and a little plain caring.
    My mom died a few weeks back and although I have not
    received a letter from the company (form letter or not)
    they did make a donation as my father wished.
    
    Also a card and a fruit basket from the folks I work with
    was heart warming too. Thanks to all, again.
    
    Rick A

    My mother passed away about 2 months ago and I also received a fruit
    basket and card. It was really appreciated and a nice touch. It might
    be hard to imagine, but even the smallest gestures mean so much at
    times like those.
    
    Fred Deady

    I lost my father a year ago, April 14 1994 to be exact. I too received
    a note from Bob Palmer and a fruit basket from my co-workers. Both the
    note and the fruit basket were very much appreciated.
    
    As you know, spring of 1994 was a very dark time for the company. The
    fact that Palmer sent a note, even if it was just a form, told me that
    people do care, despite the trials of huge financial losses. It was
    obvious that Bob signed it personally.
    
    I still have the note, and plan to keep it a very long time.
    
    Steve

    
    I got my letter. Too bad it was address to Mrs instead
    of Mr Richard E. Angelone. Boy, the ex would love that.
    
    Rick A

    
    When my mom died I received a letter from KO, this was just before he
    left...I was very touched by the letter and
    by the gift from my co-workers.  I don't know about the BP letters, but
    the KO letter was on stationery, not corporate letter size paper.  It
    was typed and signed in pen by KO.  It didn't have a form letter feel
    to me...it was a nice gesture.    
    
    I was very touched by this gesture from my company and am happy to hear
    that the tradition continues...sometimes things are meaningless at a
    time like this, but I remember this being meaningful for me.
    
    -Susan
    
    

    Nothing
    
    What went wrong?
    
    Or are the KO/BP letters confined to employees of teh US subsidiary?

    Re. .36....
    
    Actually, I think the way it happens is this:  Your secretary (god
    bless those that are still with us) or SOMEBODY sends a notice to the
    home office and advises them of your loss.
    
    That's how it happened for me... even KO could not read minds.  So,
    like many things, it all begins at home.
    
    tony

    I think maybe Nick's point (.36) was that secretaries in some parts
    of the world are less knowledgeable about this sort of thing than in
    the US. I don't know of anyone in REO (where I work) who got a KO/BP
    letter in similar circumstances.
    
    b

    
    As hazy as I was at the time, I remember my boss saying he had to
    notify someone in Digital (who I do not know) when someone in an
    employee's immediate family dies so I believe my boss did whatever it
    is they do.
    
    -Susan