Conference 7.286::digital

    
    What streets ? Not where I live ..?
    
    But.... Gates is due in Washington soon to have his knuckles rapped for
    beating the competition senseless. And if he was forced to choose
    between O/S and Apps, which would he cut loose ?
    
    And I presume you meant buy the whole thing from Microsoft, as opposed
    to a licence or two :*).
    
    
    Rgds,
    
    AW

    There's probably as much truth in that as there is in the rumour that
    Microsoft are going to buy Rdb. Mind you, I heard yesterday that a key
    member of the Rdb group is now Microsoft's technical db director, and
    just a few of his "team" went with him. Who knows?
    
    Laurie.

    RE: .1
    
    Actually, in a way NT addresses a problem that doesn't exist, and will
    never hit the desktop. I'd guess that MS would put their eggs in the
    Chicago basket if push came to shove; after all, their home territory
    is the desktop.
    
    Laurie.

	Be careful, the rumors nowdays must say:

	 "I heard a rumor that Digital are going to SELL...

	Jo�l

It makes perverse sense: this is how we get even with Cutler.

        I don't think so -- NT and Chicago are on a course to
        eventually merge in a few years.

        (On the other hand, a few years ago I would have said that
        Windows and OS/2 were obviously going to evolve together.)

        Bob

>    There's probably as much truth in that as there is in the rumour that
>    Microsoft are going to buy Rdb. Mind you, I heard yesterday that a key
>    member of the Rdb group is now Microsoft's technical db director, and
>    just a few of his "team" went with him. Who knows?

Yes, we lost our technical director (and have a new one). As of now, no one has
gone with him (not to say that we haven't lost other people to Microsoft).

michael

    re: Note 3136.7 by QUEK::MOY
    
    Who was the technical director who left for Microsoft?
    
    Ken....
    

    re: -1
    
    Answered via private mail.
    
    michael

    I can't say that I really blame the director.  I kinda hope that
    Microsoft would buy Rdb... then maybe the product would get the support
    and marketing that it deserves.
    
    I'm a little set off my the article on page 7 of this weeks
    Computerworld: "Rdb Falling By Digital Wayside".  the last paragraph
    stated:
    
    "People should be looking for other databases, particularly for new
    applications," said Lynn Berg, an analyst at Gartner Group, Inc. in
    Stamford, Conn.  "It's inconceivable that Digital would have enough
    money to keep competitive with ... other relational databases."
    
    The article just pointed out that Digital is emphasizing other DBMS
    rather than Rdb even though Rdb is a good product that can go
    toe-to-toe with many other DBMS on our systems.  I also recall a
    recent benchmark highlighting a world record in TPS.  From personal
    experience... Digital Sales seems to not even consider Rdb in proposed
    solutions.  If the product fails in Digital it is not for technical
    reasons.
    
    Such a good product... I tip my hat to the developers... I hope it gets
    its chance to shine either in or outside of Digital.  
    
    

    Interesting rumor.  I have no idea whether there might be substance to
    it or not, but I do believe that Microsoft is NOT irrevokably committed
    to NT.  With the prospects for Chicago, and the push Microsoft is
    giving it, NT is unlikely to amount to a very significant chunk of
    business for them.

    Consider this excerpt of a recent widely circulated enet mail from a
    DEC employee about DEC's booth at the recent Comdex/Windows World:

        'I am happy to report from all observations that Windows World
        Comdex was a huge success for Digital as well as C&P.  Digital
        appeared as a vital company that was upbeat and successful with
        lots going on. Many people commented that the Digital booth should
        win best at the show.  It had a baseball theme Team Digital
        complete with stadium bleachers that were so full they had to
        increase the number of "games" per hour.  IN FACT, BILL GATES WAS
        HEARD COMMENTING AS HE WALKED BY "WHY IS DIGITAL DOING A BETTER JOB
        MARKETING NT THAN US".'  (emphasis added)

    The answer, most likely, is that NT is more important to Digital than
    it is to Microsoft.

    Really.


    dlm

   Never work. The day Digital buys NT is the day NT (magically)
   becomes proprietary :-)

   But, then again, we could rename it to OpenNT :-)

   

I do not believe there is any truth to this rumor.

Ken Berkun
Digital Microsoft Alliance Team

    re: -2
    
    Since when is NT not proprietary?
    
    ..Larry

	RE: .14

	It's a joke son! Don't you know that Microsoft write "open"
	software?

	DOS is open because everyone uses it. Open is in the eye of
	the beholder. VMS could be considered open if all systems ran
	it.

						mike

Re: .15

�	It's a joke son! Don't you know that Microsoft write "open"
�	software?

Reminds me of a computer-humor joke...

Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. They just change the standard to "dark".

Bruce

    I for one am dancing in my cube hoping that this rumor comes true.  If
    NT is indeed for sale and Digital is considering its purchase AND
    Microsoft continues its compatibility with Chicago, Digital may in fact
    have its new VMS.
    
    If all of this is true, I for one will volunteer 5% of my annual salary
    next year towards the purchase.  I will then offer an additional 5%
    toward its marketing and development for the next two years.
    
    I truly hope there are takers.
    
    ..Larry Rose

    Srikes me as the stupidest thing we could do.As someone said,it would
    become proprietary overnight and we would porbably be tempted to
    reengineer parts of it.Microsoft are masters at this game.If they even
    consider selling it,it is because they think it is a pup and will cost
    too much to maintain.Open means you either follow standards where they
    exist or try to force de facto ones(not my words but those of Andy
    Grove,Intel)-if defacto fails,incidentally,get out real fast.
    Still,I have no doubt that we are considering it..
    

    RE: Rdb rumours. I heard today from a source in Microsoft UK that
    Microsoft are trying to recruit the top twenty database engineers
    worldwide. They have already trawled Spitbook.
    
    Laurie.

    re: "Dos is open because everybody runs it"...
    
    strange logic.
    
    Everybody runs it:  as long as they are using Intel CPU's
    
    By that logic, one could claim that VMS is open because "everybody runs
    it" as long as they are using VAX CPU's
    
    t.

��        <<< Note 3136.20 by ICS::BEAN "Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL!" >>>

��    re: "Dos is open because everybody runs it"...
��    
��    strange logic.
��    
��    Everybody runs it:  as long as they are using Intel CPU's

    ...or Cyrix, or Advanced Micro Devices.

    I think what's pleasing to customers is that they can buy the
    CPU in a box from dozens (maybe hundreds) of vendors.

        Re:        <<< Note 3136.20 by ICS::BEAN "Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL!" >>>

        The market decides  what's  open.    When  they  feel they have a
        choice of vendors to  purchase  a  product from, or they feel the
        vendor isn't out to gouge them they procl;aim the offering open.
        
        Anker

    re: .19, Microsoft recruiting top database engineers
    
    This is not exactly a secret.  Microsoft has had ads all over area and
    industry publications (including large ones in the Globe) recruiting
    top database and repository people for a major project.  There have
    even been notices going around electronic mailing lists (I even got
    one, which tells you how far they're looking :) :) ).
    
    Since some of the top database engineers worldwide work in Spit Brook
    for DBS, it's a logical recruiting ground, even without the condition
    of the company and the sale rumors and all the rest.  
    
    --bonnie

>Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>A: None. They just change the standard to "dark".

    "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards
    and we can change them."

    Karen Hargrove of Microsoft quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial.

...petri

    Proprietary...  who cares?  It is MS-Windows for more powerful machines
    than PCs.  If we can buy this OS, we will have bought tremendous
    mindshare and experience...  from users that aren't our customers.  NT
    is so similar to DOS/Windows 3.1 that anyone with experience in the
    latter can immediately operate the former.  The free press associated
    with this purchase is also worth a tidy sum, good or bad.
    
    It doesn't matter what is proprietary and what is open.  It is proven
    that users respond to the Microsoft-developed Windows GUI.  For us to
    have the exact same O/S look without a patent infringement lawsuit is
    also worth quite a bit.
    
    There are several large companies that have already bet on NT.  OS/2 is
    too unsupported and Novell is too unstable.  NT had a stronger first
    release than any other O/S in modern history.  
    
    What will keep WNT open is our committment to channels:  allow HP, IBM,
    whomever continue to sell it and sell services for it.  Obviously,
    mission-critical support will have to be up to Digital (major problem
    with Microsoft ownership).  Continue an open relationship with
    Microsoft to make sure Chicago has complete compatibility; Improve the
    backward compatibility with 16-bit Windows apps; keep the O/S 32-bit
    until everyone is ready for 64-bit (Sun, HP, Power PC); Market the hell
    out of it.
    
    This could truly be the boost back into mass commercialism that VMS
    gave to Digital.  Such an O/S could propell us from a $14billion
    (moving toward $10B) to a $20B company with universal appeal.  WNT is
    open to those coming from the PC world looking for more power.  NT is a
    real operating system with real security features and real mindshare. 
    This could be a real winner for Digital.
    
    I'm gitty.

    You realize, of course, that we cannot buy NT.
    
    Buying ANYTHING is an expense, and so according to our corporate 
    vision, must be eliminated, with the ultimate goal of having no 
    expenses whatsoever (revenue is irrelevant).
    
    Sandy

I've been a silent reader in this conference, but I couldn't resist 
a comment here.

There is NO way that Microsoft is selling NT to Digital. Absolutely zero 
chance. 

NT is the base technology for many strategic thrusts from Microsoft, 
including Cairo, EMS (enterprise mail server), Tiger Video Server and 
their Database followon products (post Sybase SQL server divorce). This 
last piece is what they are recruiting database talent for. 
There is no way Microsoft would divest of this technology at this stage.
 

Scott

    never say never...
    I wouldn't be too surprised if the US Justice Department said
    to Microsoft: "Operating Systems.  Applications.  Pick one."
    kb

I didn't say "never". I said "No way at this stage".

Scott

    Why don't we spice up this rumor with some takeover talk: 
    
    Something like: We will buy WNT - Bill Gates buys digital. Creates the
    ultimate Client/Server-vendor.
    
    Just a guess :-)
    
    Klaus

    Just spoke to a Microsoft engineer.  Rumors everywhere that Gates may
    leave to start another company.
    
    ..Larry

>    Just spoke to a Microsoft engineer.  Rumors everywhere that Gates may
>    leave to start another company.
 
Interesting.  He announced a few weeks ago that he was going to stay on as
CEO of Microsoft for at least ten more years.

I thought that sounded a bit strange.

-steve-

>>Rumors everywhere that Gates may leave to start another company.

	Maybe they are confused with his branching out and investing
	in other ventures, like is 800 satellite project with McCaw (I
	think). Or maybe we are looking at our next CEO??? :-) :) :)

						mike

    >>Or maybe we are looking at our next CEO???
    
    Gates wouldn't fit in here.  He has no respect for hardware
    technologies.
    
    ..Larry

RE: .34

	Believe me, I was joking.

							mike