Conference 7.286::digital

    >this is NOT Russia - are you sure? Not if Billary has their way! Think
    about the socialism we are becoming, in spite of what may appear to
    make more sense.....I don't like it either..

    Tom -
    
    You are trying to make sense of the situation using faulty assumptions.
    To be concise:
    
    1. DEC is pursuing an Intel model. Thus, if you are not involved in
    chip design, manufacturing, integration, or support, your job is being
    kept alive by machine.
    
    2. DEC's target total population is likely to be 65,000, per (1). That
    means another 30K or so to go -- probably by the end of F94.
    
    3. Given (1) and (2), seats in the lifeboats are in short supply.
    Thus, layoffs are being done on a political and Darwinian basis.
    
    4. The only people who will make out in the nest year or two are top
    management and those whom they favor. Stock and bond holders will get
    some crumbs in the short run. Most employees now are just "expenses," and
    will be treated accordingly. Notice that DEC is "buying-back" stock
    options at essentially zero bucks? Makes the books look a lot healthier
    if DEC loses its autonomy.
    
    
    I hope this helps -
    
    Ken
                                                

    	I don't think this is a TNSG-only phenomenon. There's either a lot
    of denial going on, or middle management truly doesn't know what's
    going on...yet. Everyone seems to like the number 500 this time around.
    We keep hearing this number applied to all sorts of things. We haven't
    heard anything specific here in VMS either...and if VMS-only skills are
    the kiss of death, then if anybody should hear something, we should!
    	We've been hearing June 14th as the layoff date in software
    engineering. If this is true, given past layoffs, only high-level
    grumbling, offsite meetings, pep talks from VPs, middle-management
    denial, and confusion would be appropriate at this stage. In another
    1-2 weeks, the actual numbers should start to clarify and laddering
    should commence...if this all turns out to be true.

    re: .0
    
    NSM = ???
    DSM = Digital Standard MUMPS?
    
    Bob

    	Not-quite Standard Mumps?
    

    I rant about this too often, but...
    
    From the viewpoint I have (field) weak decision-making affects more
    than layoffs.  Products are cancelled with brilliant excuses - like
    "The market is too competitive." and "We weren't selling enough."  No
    proper analysis is done - like why didn't it sell - weak product, less
    features, or (most likely) no-one knew about it and Digital sales is
    still iron-mongering only.
    
    People are laid off in the field by percentage.  Some 27-year old Wall
    Street analyst without the brains to remove his Oakleys during a
    blackout says "Digital should have x employees" and Maynard jumps.  A
    percentage is calculated and passed down.  Each level of management, in
    order to avoid actual thinking/work passes the percentage down.  It
    is getting harder in the now-five-person organizations to make those
    10% cuts.
    
    I still don't see any hint that Digital plans to be anything but an
    Alpha foundry in the long term.  And if you think that's wonderful,
    look at the history of foundry success - it's not often based strictly
    on technical merits:  Motorola's Mac-chips were technically faster and
    better than Intel's; the TI-9900 certainly was...   So, regardless of
    the hype available for Alpha which is admittedly a public awareness
    first for Digital, others with greater marketing skills are going to
    beat us.  
    
    Some Warning Signs:  
     - NT from Microsoft is on Intel and Mips NOW.  Anyone with a 
       developers' kit knows that.  What applications will be there when NT 
       is available on Alpha?  (By 'be there' I mean shrink wrapped and
       on the shelf!)
     - Microsoft is (wisely) re-opening its IBM relationships.  Will they
       need a distant number two any longer?
    
...and so on, into the night.
    

    
    
    
    In 5 years time Digital will be:-
    
    Profitable
    Selling networking lego bricks
    Selling OEM bits-storage and Alpha SBCs only
    
    Digital will not be selling:-
    
    complete systems or boxes or PCs
    services
    SI-we will either have a separate company or have given up
    
    Digital will have a vastly reduced workforce if this is true-like 30000
    total with probably 20000 in SI in another company.
    
    So,we will be more than an Alpha foundry.As for Microsoft and its'
    alliances...who haven't they had an alliance with(my local baker is the
    only one who springs to mind)?
    
    This not a doomsday scenario-I beleive it to be real,reasonable,with
    an 80% probability of being true and more of an industry threat to
    other companies than our-I mean,who else has had so much practice at
    change.If you believe the above,plan accordingly and you will start to
    see that it is not a bad future.
    

re: .4

I believe:

	NSM = Network Systems Management
	DSM = Distributed Systems Management

John

    re: .7
    
    Sorry, but...
    
    With IBM handing out the "computer business"...
    With Digital not wanting any...
    With the SUN Setting...
    With Apple stuck in Mcland...
    With Prime/DG/Wang struggling to meet payrolls...
    With SGI into VR...
    
    The next set of rules will be written by one of:
      - Microsoft
      - Hewlett-Packard
      - Someone from Japan - my guess: Hitachi
    
    While the 'golden rule' in the land of Id is "whoever has the gold
    makes the rules", in business, it's "whoever makes the rules gets the
    gold".
    
    There will be no joy in Maynard.
     

    Gates predicts that in 5 years the division of Microsoft that sells
    multimedia content, in the form of CDROMs on musical instruments and
    art, will be bigger than either the operating system or application
    software divisions.   He is going around buying up digital rights to
    paintings, and dealing with book publishers and Hollywood.
    
    See article in the May 10 "Forbes" titled "Sell the water, not the
    plumbing."

    Well, some time has passed, and still there is little information
    coming out. I have heard that our organization in TNSG had a budget
    cut and tried to renegotiate the cut with the CBUs and TDs that are
    part of the Supply Chain process designed to turn the company around
    by focusing our work on the customer requirements (Yay!) instead
    of by Engineerings or Marketings or anyones dreams which may not be
    linked to custgomer input.
    
    There is also word that the CBUs and TDs (technical directors) have
    made recommendations on projects to cut. Naturally I also feel good
    about this because I would want to see CBUs customer business units
    defining our work areas. (They may =make mistakes, but anyway I trust
    any customer input rather than digital architects, marketitects or
    otrhers with their own agendas that are not really looking out for
    the customers.)
    
    The rumors about laying people off on the targeted projects seems
    to have been spurious. Layoffs if any will be handled by laddering
    based on performance and skill sets anmd the intention from what I
    can understand is that certains projects will be cancelled and people
    may be cut from anywhere based on laddering and then moved around.
    Since I appealed for this process if it should be used, I have to
    say it looks like it will be used after all and I think this is
    good. (If there has to be a process, this is as good as it gets--
    including a way to retain top talent and keep those persons giving
    their efforts to the company in time of trouble.)
    
    I'd like to close this message with an appeal for some more information
    which I will mail to Dennis ROberson and DIck Crosby (our manager of
    NSM)
    
    1. In other orgs and groups in DEC, budget cuts, estimated numbers of
    persons to be affected have been communicated. I think this is
    important and should be done soon. Even if specific people are not
    "warned" this information does alot for us.
    
    2. In many organizations, those people that have been laddered and
    who would be affected by a layoff have been in many cases been
    "warne" "early advised" or whatever. It is not looking so hot to be
    in TNSG given this is not happening in TNSG. The reason, is that there
    are other jobs, many in fact that are available. And it seems only
    reasonable to let people whose sets of "skills" might be lowering
    their position in TNSGs ladder -- to let those people get an
    indication that they should look and possibly find a match. Just
    because someones skills don't help them in TNSG does not mean that
    they may not find an appropriate position elsewhere.
    
    There are only so many available jobs in DEC, not all will find one,
    but there is alot to be said for allowingpeople to look. It has been
    proven that early warning can be done without making a promise that
    a person will be affected (which opens the company to lawsuits
    if they were not laid off and then are layed off later.) One can
    be "warned." I know many people outside of TNSG that have been warned
    and have sought other jobs in DEC. Does one of you from TNSG mgmt
    want to hear me tell you who and how many people trhey are? You
    might be very embarrased to know that your org (TNSG) is behind the
    humanization of downsizing in this respect. I hope you will consider
    this.
    
    3. COmmunication of downsizing laddering processes. I hope that each
    manager in TNSG will feel some regret that many people who read this
    note are able to understand how the factors for downsizing are
    being determined, e.g. performance and skill set laddering, but they
    are getting it here, rather than from you. Perhaps you do not
    understand how much people want to know how their management will
    determine downsizing. There is actually a very positive benefit from
    knowing these things; it makes people respect a rational process. As
    you know I had to start by posting a rumor which was all that the
    information was available that layoffs or downsizing may be conducted
    by all those on the affected projects. 
    
    With regards and appeals for detailed communications quickly, I leave
    this note for your considerations.
    
    Tom Boyle
    

    I know what a CBU is.  What's a "TD" (technical director)?

    re: .11 
    
    You are making a terrible assumption - but following true corporate
    rationale - if you think that because the C in CBU stands for customer
    there will be customer input on anything.
    
    Three cows are in my herd.  Yesterday the black one led the white one
    to a new patch of grass.  The spotted one followed.  Today the spotted
    one found the grass and the others followed side-by-side (teamwork?). 
    Do I have a different herd?
    
    I can bet the CBU surveys, if any, will contain questions like:
    
    Do you want to buy DECwrite? 
    Did you want to buy DECdecision?
    Did you wanna buy DECquery?
    
    Then return inwards for a year yelling that the products are no good
    cause nobody wants them.  Well, very few answered 'Yes'.
    
    

    re .13
    
    I have direct and personal experience with both the Telecom and
    Financial CBU's which refute your moo-o-gram..
    
    They have asked for specific products in the UNIX space to satisfy
    "real" customers..
    
    

    re .14
    
    Then why have the UNIX versions of DECdecision and DECquery been
    cancelled? Both damn fine products, with advanced multiplatform
    integration capabilities, user interface finesse and functionality way
    ahead of the competition, even PC based products e.g. try drawing a pie
    chart with lots of small slices; DECchart does a supurb job, while
    Excel makes a right pigs ear of placing the labels and the wizard has
    all the user friendliness of a rat sandwich. 
    
    In this instance we even use what we sell! (I did say it, really, you
    can pick yourself off the floor) and have methods documented for its
    operational use in support of the Digital Services business. I can lay
    odds the 'CBUs' aren't aware of this and even if they did they'll
    ignore it due to the NIH syndrome.
    
    Angus 

    -1
    
    have to agree with you there.  From scratch, in only a few days I put
    together a linked DECdecision application that allows me to enter
    customer survey responses into a Calc worksheet, automatically
    calculate basic statistics such as mean mode and std deviation and link
    to:
    
    	Other Calc sheets that calculate nonparametric statistics
    	Chart to draw the pie & bar charts
    	DECwrite to build the the survey report
    
    It's a pleasure to use DECdecision after the bad experience of many
    PC-based tools.
    
    Colin
      

    re. .15
    
    I can't speak for the products you mention; only the ones I know
    about..best to get info on individual products from the responsible
    product manager or devo manager..
    
    I was only refuting the apparent generalization being made..

    Upper management gave me a call on the issues I posted. I got
    these questions.
    
    1. How many people do I know of that had some kind of pre warning
    of possible downsizing and did they find other jobs.
    
    2. Similar to above. Are there other jobs out there such as writing,
    software engineering, product management. Can anyone comment?
    
    3. Communication of budget cuts and projects to be disinvested
    in would appear public and not a desirable thing for digital.
    I don't know onb this,-- I would still say it will become public
    anyway and so it might as well be made known to employees.
    
    Can anyone comment on these specific issues?
    
    Tom
    

>            <<< Note 2496.14 by DECWET::PENNEY "Johnny's World!" >>>
>    I have direct and personal experience with both the Telecom and
>    Financial CBU's which refute your moo-o-gram..
>    
>    They have asked for specific products in the UNIX space to satisfy
>    "real" customers..

>>           <<< Note 2496.15 by SUBURB::MCDONALDA "Shockwave Rider" >>>
>>    Then why have the UNIX versions of DECdecision and DECquery been
>>    cancelled? Both damn fine products, with advanced multiplatform
>>    integration capabilities, user interface finesse and functionality way
>>    ahead of the competition 
>>	(etc.)

	re: .15 (Angus)

	The products may be fine (and I use them, and am a former developer
	of DECdecision), but the point in .14 is that the CBUs are trying to
	satisfy "real" customers, a group of which internal users are not a
	part.

	The question of why we haven't been able to sell DECdecision and
	DECQuery to "real" customers is a different issue. As it stands, the
	products don't make money (or anything close to it), and that's why
	they were canned.

	Roy

    I would like to turn the discussion back to my specific questions about
    downsizing. That was the intent of this note. You can start other
    discussion in another note.
    
    Once again, does anyone have information on questions 1, 2, or 3
    from .18
    
    Tom
    

    re: .20
    
    I wouldn't admit to having this kind of information.  I don't want 
    to be the target of some sort of "leak" investigation by someone in 
    upper management.
    
    Steve

re: .18

>    1. How many people do I know of that had some kind of pre warning
>    of possible downsizing and did they find other jobs.

Check out the Notes conference WARIOR::JOBS.  You will find many examples
of people posting resumes because they were warned.  Of course, you will
also find many examples of people posting resumes during their 1-week
notice period.

Ray

    
    Re:
    
    Since I'm not afraid of answering questions. To hell with people who
    don't like it when people speak straight:
    
    Re:
    
>    Upper management gave me a call on the issues I posted. I got
>   these questions.
>    
>    1. How many people do I know of that had some kind of pre warning
>    of possible downsizing and did they find other jobs.
 
    When TFSOing was done in Networks Engineering in December everybody had
    the option of being prewarned. That was definitely the case in my area
    of Networks Engineering.
    
    Everybody was told that they could go to the group manager (later
    downgraded to cost center manager) or personnel and would be told one
    of three things.
    
    	1, The chance of you getting TFSOed is extremely low. You are
           basically not on the hit list that is being considered by cross
    	   org.   
    
	2, You're chance of getting TFSOed is medium but not certain.
           Depending on what happens at cross org you may or may not be TFSOed.
    
	3, It's pretty damn certain you're going to be TFSOed.
    
    There was a "political" way of saying the above three things. I think
    it was in term of risk "high", "medium" and "low". But the message was
    above. Pre warning was delivered 1-2 weeks (maybe more) ahead of Pearl
    Harbor Day (the day people were notified).
    
>    2. Similar to above. Are there other jobs out there such as writing,
>    software engineering, product management. Can anyone comment?
 
    Yes there are other jobs available in the company. In fact I have an
    unapproved req in the jobs notesfile at present. Looks like it will be
    signed off but nothings certain until the ink is dry.   
    
>    3. Communication of budget cuts and projects to be disinvested
>    in would appear public and not a desirable thing for digital.
>    I don't know onb this,-- I would still say it will become public
>    anyway and so it might as well be made known to employees.
    
    In Networks Engineering this information has been communicated to
    specific groups and people directly affected. As you point out no
    wholescale communication is done. The rumour mill still rules on this
    one.
    
    Dave