Conference 7.286::digital

    
    
    
    i cant believe some people are so eager to give themselves a paycut
    for the benifit of the company.
    
    while i'm lucky to have a job an all, 2yrs between raises and the 
    workload of 2-3 people,
    
    i'm not one for donating money to the financial black hole to keep
    the mill in digitals name.
    
    if digital cant afford the maintnance and utility bills on that 
    prehistoric building, what makes you think we could.
    
    and yes i used to work at the mill.
    
    
    we will all miss it. but we'll live
    
    mike

    Cut everyone's wages for the Mill -- no thank you.  
    
    BUT, cut everyone's wages to save some jobs -- I'll be first in line
    and you better make it more than a 1% cut in pay.  But, I do want to
    see a guarantee, a contract, that states what jobs are saved and who.
    I don't want to see a US Congress deal...raise taxes to save the poor,
    only to find out that 25% of the money went to a study on how the
    Idaho pruple worm mates when it's a cloudy day.  
    
    Sorry, I too hate to see the Mill go, but it is just brick and lumber.
    Where as, a job is keeping someone's child clothed and fed.
    
    Scott

I wonder how BP will feel standing at the door of the mill saying good-bye
to the next round of TFSO employees trying to console them that, in part,
their sacrifice has allowed mother Digital to retain its symbolic mill because
we decided to apply employee contributions towards keeping the mill and clock
instead of keeping employees.

Let's "Save The Mill"
    		after we "Save The Company"
    				after we "Save The Employees"

IMHO, it will do little good for Digital's brand campaign and reputation to
save the mill while we purge employees.  It will rank at the same level as
the March 15 Computerworld article (see note 2410.28).

Gerry

    Wang couldn't save jobs by giving everyone a 10% pay cut.  I think the
    mill is a neat place, but its time has past for Digital.  We no longer
    have the margins to afford it.  Its a symbol of what once was, true. 
    But look at it now, its still a symbol of DEC.  Its expensive, its in
    poor shape, its ill positioned for the future.  Its time for DEC to
    grow up and leave the nest.  We need to change to survive.  We need to
    have significantly lower costs to compete with the software houses out
    there.  If that means we close a building that's too damn expensive to
    run and maintain, so be it.  I want DEC to survive!  We need to stop
    looking back and look forward to find new ways to win.
    
    	Dave

    
    I wonder how he feels about saying good-bye to those laid-off to pay
    for burgundy logos with circular dots on the "i"'s.
    
    
    

    I think that there are (and were) a lot of Digital employees who never
    saw, much were in the "Mill".  I've been with Digital 5 years and 50
    weeks and can be included in that count.  I don't feel much tradition
    or feeling for a building that must not be carrying its weight.  Maybe
    it would be best donated as a office, school, library, or even sold.

    re: .0
    
    To echo .6, I'd sooner save jobs than the Mill, but I wouldn't donate
    to either cause.
    
    Giving back salary for extra jobs is a waste of time.  It will simply
    be a matter of time before the business climate (and the way we do or
    do not react to it) dictates the number of heads we need to carry on.
    The "paycut for jobs" idea is a warm concept, but the first weak quarter
    would find the "saved" people out on the street, and the remaining people
    even more disheartened, having taken a pay cut for no reason.
    
    I'm more concerned that Digital in 1998 will have no place for me.  I
    solve problems.  I write software.  I do what my customers ask me to
    do.  I suggest new avenues.  I design and develop new concepts.
    
    I don't do silicon.  I don't want to do program management (here at
    least; too much paper and endless meetings).  I don't thrive on
    buzzwords.
    
    In 1998, it seems Digital will be a silicon shop.  If we haven't sold
    off the consulting business, we'll be doing project/program management
    with few or no actual workers employed by Digital.  It doesn't sound
    like we have much of a long-term view of software engineering, so it
    might be gone by then (or nearly so, based on reports I keep hearing
    from folks up north).  Field service will likely be tiny compared to
    today's org.
    
    Bottom line:  my fear is that the Digital of 1998 will not resemble the
    Digital we have been used to; not only in spirit, but in product lines.
    The Digital of the Mill will no longer exist, so it is fitting that the
    Mill be cast off as well.
    
    -- Russ

    I wonder how KO feels about the mill going. Is he prepared to put some 
    of his cash in ????
    
    Curious

    
    
    The Mill. What ventures will it give birth to next ?  A place for new
    beginings? Or is this the end for the mill, a slow decay?

	Save the Mill with some of our hard-earned? No way!

	Save the Galway plant and the great folks there - absolutely! I would
	sign up for that tomorrow.

	Andy (ex-millrat - jobs before buildings)

    Why not save the clock tower only?
    
    CW

    re .0
    
    No thanks.  Too bad this note wasn't in SOAPBOX where I could 
    tell you what I really think of this "idea".

    	Well, that's the second most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    And keep your hands off my paycheck. Let the yuppies with two Saabs or
    two Volvos per family donate as much as they want to. I can barely
    afford to keep my house standing.
    	I *would* pay, however, to watch a wrecking ball demolish the Mill.
    Maybe we need a second note string for that!

    Seems pretty unanimous from this sampling.
    The wounds run awfully deep.
    
    :|

    are we talking voting now on save the mill?
    
    should people sign in here with yes or no about this matter?
    
    \bye
    \nasser
    
    

    
    
    	No thanks.  I'm not in favor of salary cuts, or job cuts, to save
    	a building, Mill or otherwise.
    
    	Diane

    Sure, I'd love to donate some of my hard-earned money to your cause. 
    By the way, I've got a wonderful charity I work for -- my mortgage.
    Care to donate 1% of your salary to help keep a roof over my head?  Its
    a very worthy cause, I assure you.  And *I* don't lose $3M/day, either!

    Maybe we could get the clock tower moved to Canobie Lake park . . .

Save the Mill?   --Yes

Save Digital at the Mill --No

I'm all for 'adaptive reuse' of historical buildings and I'm wounded
when we lose to the demolition ball.  The Mill can be demolished
whether it's on the Historic Register or not!  (and by the way...it's
not!)  I've gone thru this fight with home owners and town gov't in my 
past 12 years with a local historical society.

The Mill was here 100 years before Digital came into town....and I
want the Mill to retain it's character for another 100 years.

For those local GMA folks (Grtr. Maynard Area)...join forces with the
local Maynard Historical Society to save the Mill.

For all Digital employees..."we" are what makes Digital unique....join
forces and let's go after the competition!  

    Wanna have the employees rally around the mill?  Sell pictures of it,
    and donate the proceeds to DEC's deficit.  BTW, don't produce too many
    copies, I wouldn't count on high sales.  Today's corporations are
    showing less and less loyalty to their employees, and the employees are
    returning the sentiment.  It's dog eat dog......
    
     

    Donate the mill tower and a building to the Town of Maynard.
    I believe the mill tower is a symbol for Maynard. Maybe on their
    logo.
    
    The building to be used as a museum. Maybe the Computer Museum that
    is now located in Boston which was begun by DEC.
    
    Sell the rest. If you can!
    
    I worked in the Mill when I first joined the company. Enjoyed it.
    It was like working in a college town.
    
    But..
    
    They were very inefficient back then. Try moving material from one
    building to another. What about the looooong walks from the end of
    the parking lot in the middle of the winter.. This is a hard decision
    that should have been made in the good times.. Along time ago.

    Response .23 gets to the heart of this issue.  A crusade to "Save the
    Mill" is based on a sense of loyalty to "the company."  In contrast, it
    seems to me that "the company" has shown how much value it places on
    that loyalty over and over again in past few years: zero, zilch, nada.
    
    While the Mill is only a symbol with limited significance, it *is* a
    symbol to some people.  Its loss may make economic sense.  Its loss
    will also affect morale.  Now, this effect on morale is less measurable,
    but once again it affects one of the few assets this company still
    possesses: its people.  And once again, it seems to me that "the
    company" is ignoring the effect of its actions on that asset,
    especially the negative effects.
    					andrew

	the mill = Ken Olsen

	Lets face it folks, they are both gone.  But, maybe they
	will be reunited someday.

	It's changes, that frighten people.  Sometimes change can
	be good.

	The mill was fun, and I loved working there.... but really,
	it was the people IN THE MILL that made it special.

	&-)  Mikki  (3-1)

 >It's dog eat dog......

 Damn, I don't think I'm going to get on well in the New DEC.
 I'm a vegetarian.

    we DECeees should be more imaginative, so how about making Tee-Shirts
    with "Save-the-Mill" printed on it, may be even in burgundy color
    (our new color) and you can easily sell the Tee-Shirt for $12 bucks
    i even seen blank Tee-Shirts sell for this much.

    this is a very good way to get donations to save the mill and at the same
    time help spread the word about the DEC and us and the Mill.

    \nasser

    
    Nah.  But you can sell the shirts and then give the profits to
    employees that have been caught in the new medical coverage!
    
    Ken

        Re: .27

> >It's dog eat dog......
>
> Damn, I don't think I'm going to get on well in the New DEC.
> I'm a vegetarian.

        I'm also a vegetarian, but I'm not concerned since I'm not a dog.

    RE:  .25 - Thank you for a thoughtful and GENTLE counterpoint to the
    rest of this string!  What a bunch of hardnosed critters the rest of
    you are!  You've all completely missed the point, and that point is the
    the Mill was symbolic to so many of us of what Digital once was, and
    what the more sentimental amongst us wish it could be again.  Give us
    all time to grieve, this is one more painful loss, the ultimate one,
    the last symbol of the company we once worked for, and seems to exist
    much only in name, now.  GEEZE!!!!!!!!!!!!  Cut the more sentimental
    amongst us a break, will ya?  Expecially you Westerners!  We, here in
    the East, still have a sense of history, afterall, this tiny corner of
    the U.S. just happens to be the cradle of our nation...
    
    Mutter...

    You're right -- let's take a minute of silence in respect for the Mill
    and all it stood for.....  
                             ...
                                 ...
                                    ...
                                       ...
                                          ... .
    
    There.
    
    Now to us Westerners, the Mill was never as important, and in some
    cases came to symbolize the "isolation from reality" that we often felt
    when dealing with people from the home office.
    
    I sympathize with your loss, but we gotta get on with life. 
    For me, I think it would be smart if Palmer did move HQ to Chicago or
    Dallas, just to empasize the break with the past.  
    
    I mourn the part of the company that was compassionate and caring 
    of its employees.  Maybe the new Digital will find some of that again.
    
    I don't mourn the part of the company that was DEC-centric and thought
    we were holy and invincible.  I hope that doesn't make me a hard case,
    unsympathetic and unidealistic.  I support those positive feelings and
    memories and ideals that the Mill evokes for you.  I have similar warm
    feelings about my early days with the company, but around the friends
    and people who worked here.

Does everyone remember the PR splash when DECWORLD was held on the QE2 in Boston
harbor?  Why don't we raise the Titanic, drag it's rusting hulk to Boston and use
THAT as our new company HQ? We could even paint it purple and mount the clock tower
on the quarterdeck! Wouldn't that be neat ?

 

  

    Wait!  'Nuther idea.  Paint the Mill Burgundy and combine this with the
    child care idea.  We'll name it something else like, oh, Barney!
    
    "I love you.  You love me.  Be a happy TFSO-ee ..."
    
    Steve

    I'd say save it, if there was something left to save.  The real mill
    got destroyed years ago in the renovations.
    
    Speaking of the renovations,  Why did we ever do it if we were going to
    turn around and move out?!?!?!?  This is an example of the kind of
    planning that got up into this mess.
    
    REAL millrats remember the free coffee and doughnuts in the morning in
    building 11.
    
    REAL millrats remember that we USED to design AND manufacture hardware.
    
    The kind of compassion for the building [mill] is indicative of a core
    problem.  In the hay-days we brought in a good amount of people without
    proper orientation to our culture.
    Used to be that I and my team could work for days without seeing the 
    outside of the mill.  Today life at work is work in return for an
    [unsecure] paycheck.
    
    And if it is too unprofitable for a corportate headquarters, how could
    any business/function afford to operate within?
    
    forget the turkey next Christmas, just send me an UNsandblasted brick.
    I'm just glad to have known it when it was real.  I feel bad for the
    new people and westerners who don't hold fond memories.
    

    re .35  
    We're still renovating....I walk by new office and space construction 
    almost every day here in the Mill.  Just because we're moving out in a 
    few years deosn't mean we can't renovate to satisfy the vps and the
    new groups being formed 8^)
    
    Mark
    

    Re .26
    
    Maybe Ken Olsen should buy back a part of the mill for his new startup?
    
    

    Maybe this should be a job for the Digital Retirees Office? At least
    they could probably assign a historian(or a group of them). Any
    volunteers?
    
    Maintenance costs?? Certainly prohibitive unless there could be some
    income producing effort. Museum? Souvenir shop?
    
    Bob[Retiree]
    

    re: .25- I think that moving the HQ to another location is risky in
    terms of it's business impact. We need to build on what's left - the
    strength of a long reputation as the technology leader, which is
    certainly the AXP point. To move to another city seems to symbolically
    - and unjustifiably - throw away much of the still excellent reputation
    of DEC as an institution with roots in the greater Boston area. I
    thought it counted for something. Change is inevitable & essential but
    at the same time too much change, too fast can easily be
    counter-productive. It seems like moving the corporate HQ puts an
    unnecessary cog in the wheel. I guess we'll just see......

    .-1

>    thought it counted for something. Change is inevitable & essential but
>    at the same time too much change, too fast can easily be
>    counter-productive. It seems like moving the corporate HQ puts an

    hi,

    do you mean to say DEC is changing too fast?
    i read here too that some DECeees as saying DEC is changing too slow!
    i think iam confused now.

    which rate do people think DEC is changing at:
    
    a)  way too fast
    b)  a little fast
    c)  just about right rate of changes are going on 
    d)  a little slow
    f)  way too slow
    g)  none of the above

    please pick one of the above, and if you can please justify your choice
    with some concrete example.

    thank you,
    \nasser

    Well, the move of HQ to MSO2 is, IMO, a good strategic move.  This is
    because it's a nice, clean, shiny new building with a nice cafeteria, 
    there are lots of lawyers already there, it's up on a hill overlooking the 
    domain and it's easier to pour boiling oil on the unwashed from the roofs 
    overlooking the entrances.  In fact, I understand that the money saved from 
    moving from the Mill might be used to develop the landscape a bit, including 
    a functional but tastefully done moat stocked with gators.  ;^)
    
    Steve

    RE: .42  by ECADSR::SHERMAN 
    
    >Well, the move of HQ to MSO2 is, IMO, a good strategic move.  This is
    >because it's a nice, clean, shiny new building with a nice cafeteria, 
    >there are lots of lawyers already there, it's up on a hill overlooking
    >the  domain and it's easier to pour boiling oil on the unwashed from
    >the roofs  overlooking the entrances.  In fact, I understand that the
    >money saved from  moving from the Mill might be used to develop the
    >landscape a bit, including  a functional but tastefully done moat
    >stocked with gators.  ;^)
    
    But the Mill's already got a moat.  Wouldn't it be easier to stay there
    and stock it with the lawyers from MSO?
    

Nope.  With the Mill, you'd never be sure you've blocked all the exits...

    
    well tomorrow my office goes from 5-4 to 5-3.  Then from there it's ?

RE: .13
	I agree.

The clock tower is an icon of the corporation. Its symbol is on letter head,
employee anniversary gifts, etc and represents Digitals history and roots.
Digital has always been in the mill even though we only started out in a
small part of it. Why not end up still only in a small part of it?

I say keep only the building that has the clock tower, sell the rest. Turn
that building into:

	1. A conference center
	2. A training facility connected with PKO
	3. Senior corporate offices
	4. A digital history museum
	5. Anything else useful that can be thought of

Personnally, I like option 4.

Craig.

PS. I have not read all the notes about the mill in this or other notes, I've
    just scanned the titles. Hopefully, I'm not repeating an idea someone else
    may have already thought of...

 Well I for one am "bummin'" about the Mill closing...

 I remember back in 1987, as a lowly college interviewee being given a tour
 of the clock tower (there was like a museum in there...)

 I was looking up at the nasty cobweb encrusted rafters at the very top of
 this old rickety catwalk, thinking, "Boy, wouldn't it be cool to stick my 
 nose up there..."

 The "tour guide" said, "Any one who wants to, go on up there!"

 Being in dream land, I was half-way up there before I realized it was a 
 joke...  But at that point, I was committed, so, suit and all, a navigated
 the catwalk, unscrewed the hatch, carefully held on the screws (cause if they
 fell, they were never coming back), and poked my head out the top of the clock
 tower for a brief nanosecond, screwed the hatch back on, and beat a hasty,
 embarrassed retreat...

 My future boss then exclaimed, "well that's one we're hiring!"

 /mike

 p.s.
 LONG LIVE ECAD!  Wherever you guys end up!