Conference 7.286::digital

    I do believe that "Kangaroo Court" has been called into session.

    do people turn off the screen of their workstations and terminals
    when they go home for the day?

    i thought that is good for the equipments life time?

    only the terminals need to be turned off, not the machine itself.

    what do you think?

    \bye
    \nasser

    I understand what the base noter is saying.  I work in Field Service in
    the Maryland area.  We are working on VT220's because as we were told
    by our management...THERE IS NO MONEY TO BUY NEW EQUIPMENT.  So why can
    some other groups be allowed to have double the amount of equipment
    then they really need.  
    
    I personally would love to have a VT1200.  But I guess only in my
    dreams.
    
    
    Lillian

  I'm not defending poor use of equipment, but those facts alone are not enough
to say for sure that the equipment is being wasted. 

  First of all, an employee costs the company something like $100,000 per year.
Most terminals, even work stations, cost a fraction of that to purchase out
right and cost next to nothing for the next several years of use. So when
comparing costs, figure the cost of not having the equipment as well as the
cost of having it stand idle. 

  For example, say an employee only uses a $10,000 work station 1 month per
year over a 5 year period. Now that equipment is going to cost $2,000 per year
which looks pretty bad if it sits idle for 11 months out of the year. 

  But now say that the employee would be idle for 1 month out of each year if
that machine were not available and you will find that the cost of losing a man
month per year is $100,000/12 = $8,333 per year or $43,666 over the 5 years. 

  Which is worse, having a $2,000 per year piece of hardware sitting idle for
11 months per year for a cost of $10,000 over 5 years or having a worker sit
idle for 1 month per year at a cost of $43,666 over the 5 years? 

  Now some will say "Why not give the machine to someone else for 11 months?".
Well if the machine time can be predicted and scheduled, then yes that would be
the way to go, but it's often the case that the 1 month of use is scattered
over the course of the year and time would be wasted moving it around. 

  Then there is also the tendency of some lab workers to disassemble things
that are not nailed down in someone's office forgetting to mention the fact
that parts have been removed. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's wasted half
a day trying to figure out why a machine that worked last week isn't working
now only to find out that someone's made off with one of it's two 8 meg memory
boards or that someone has reformatted the system disk. 

  George 

    As I sit here writing - squinting at my VR290, wheezing along on my
    VAXstation 2000, pausing while DECdesign sputters along on the
    uVAX3400 - I have to concur with the base noter.   Lots of resources
    are wasted.  
    
    If you are not somehow tied in with a Sales organization, you can't get
    diddly squat (unless it costs less than $1000).  However, if you ARE
    tied in with a sales organization, well, hey, hey!  Anything goes. 
    Just ask for some ROT/CON.  Want 10 fully loaded 400STs (real life
    example)?  No problem.  I've tried going through channels to pick up
    some of this gear and it can't be done.  Even though I can put it into
    real use.
    
    Never mind my splitting headache, the tired eyse, the wasted time (in
    computer jargon I guess that's "think time") waiting for the server to
    do something (do YOU know how many times DECdesign repaints an object
    when you deselect it?).
    
    We're just belt-tightening, right?  Yeah.  How many carpenters make do
    with hand saws because times are tough?
    
    don

re: .5

Ask anyone in Sales Support how wonderful ROT/CON equipment is.

Bob

	I'm glad none of you looked in my office a few months ago...

	1 VS3100 dual head (colour&Mono)
	1 VS4000-60 Proto
	1 Laptop (Personal property)
	1 Scriptprinter (LN03R)

	And a couple of other things depending on the day.. I need
	them all for my work.. And I lost the VS4000-60. So, some folks
	need all the stuff. But alot don't.

						mike

Don't forget about the cost of all the extra data lines, electrical
service, and system managers for all this extra or non-essential 
equipment.

Here in the internal networks world, we're still being bombarded
with requests for additional lat and ethernet lines. Many of our
users have a terminal, a p.c. or a workstation, a slave printer,
AND a print queue in their office.  We're installing extra lat lines
for new print queues and using up resources like the materials and 
labor are free.  We're now at the point where the number of private 
print queues in most buildings is out of control.

Each additional line takes several hundred feet of wire, connectors,
a port on a server or Dempr, and installation by one or two contract 
workers at ~$30/hour.  We try to screen as many of the requests as 
possible and make sure the need is justified, but despite the company's
current situation, we haven't much of a slowdown in requests for
extra lines.  

>Many of our
>users have a terminal, a p.c. or a workstation, a slave printer,
>AND a print queue in their office.  

Well, if they've got a workstation, all you need to do is
to hook the printer up to a serial port on the workstation (the
so-called "console" port will do), and run the queue on the 
workstation.  

Extra wiring needed = none.

re: .4

>  First of all, an employee costs the company something like $100,000 per year.
>Most terminals, even work stations, cost a fraction of that to purchase out
>right and cost next to nothing for the next several years of use. So when
>comparing costs, figure the cost of not having the equipment as well as the
>cost of having it stand idle. 

I understand your point, but the number ($122,000 per engineer in the local 
group) INCLUDES the hardware.  This number diminishes as resources are 
removed.  The incremental cost of an engineer is about $68K (again this is 
a local number).  The rest is rent, light, management overhead, and 
resources like computers.

I think this problem would disappear if resources were properly charged.
For example, no discount for DEC hardware beyond the discount you would get 
from HP or Sun.  Any excess hardware goes onto DIAL at a resonable price.  
Currently DIAL is mostly useless as the prices are higher than the cost of 
new hardware.  I have seen several purchases made of equipment identical to 
what was available on DIAL.  The DIAL price was too high incomparison to a 
real price.

Matt

>I think this problem would disappear if resources were properly charged.
>For example, no discount for DEC hardware beyond the discount you would
>get from HP or Sun.

Why is this "properly"?   If the internal cost is the "retail" price,
then isn't this just moving money on paper within DEC?   Sure, if
this happened overnight, then the amount of equipment I could
buy (this year) would drop instantly, but then (next year) I'd 
have to request a much bigger equipment budget.   In other words, 
this just seems to cause inflation, without really solving anything.
If I'm so inclined, I'll still forecast that I really *do* need a
new VAXstation 99999999 model 9999, it's just that the paper sums
will look larger.

>The DIAL price was too high incomparison to a 
>real price.

This just seems to say that DIAL prices are silly.  If the internal
price of a DECjunk I was $42 when DECjunks were hot items
to have, then how on earth can the DIAL price be set 
to more than $42?   The fact that the retail price for
a DECjunk I was $10,000 is obviously irrelevant here.

(There should also be some consideration in DIAL pricing
 of the fact that the DECjunk III, the new improved
 replacement for the DECjunk I, can be bought for $27 internal
 price, since it's a lot cheaper to build than the old DECjunk.
 Therefore, the DIAL price of a DECjunk I should be rather
 much less than $27).

So I'd agree that DIAL prices need fixing badly.

               <<< Note 2360.11 by MU::PORTER "savage pencil" >>>

>>I think this problem would disappear if resources were properly charged.
>>For example, no discount for DEC hardware beyond the discount you would
>>get from HP or Sun.

>Why is this "properly"?   If the internal cost is the "retail" price,
>then isn't this just moving money on paper within DEC?   Sure, if
>this happened overnight, then the amount of equipment I could
>buy (this year) would drop instantly, but then (next year) I'd 
>have to request a much bigger equipment budget.   In other words, 
>this just seems to cause inflation, without really solving anything.
>If I'm so inclined, I'll still forecast that I really *do* need a
>new VAXstation 99999999 model 9999, it's just that the paper sums
>will look larger.

People get hardware often "because" is a cheap way of doing things.  I 
think we engineer solutins based on hardware, forgettnig that users do not 
have access to a similar amount.  It is a false economy to get hardware 
cheaply and use it ina way that normal users can not.  If it takes us 2 
workstations to design a new workstation or to debug code, either our 
workstations are poor, our methods are poor, or the coding environment is 
poor.

>>The DIAL price was too high incomparison to a 
>>real price.

>This just seems to say that DIAL prices are silly.  If the internal
>price of a DECjunk I was $42 when DECjunks were hot items
>to have, then how on earth can the DIAL price be set 
>to more than $42?   The fact that the retail price for
>a DECjunk I was $10,000 is obviously irrelevant here.

>(There should also be some consideration in DIAL pricing
> of the fact that the DECjunk III, the new improved
> replacement for the DECjunk I, can be bought for $27 internal
> price, since it's a lot cheaper to build than the old DECjunk.
> Therefore, the DIAL price of a DECjunk I should be rather
> much less than $27).

>So I'd agree that DIAL prices need fixing badly.

Actually the price of DECjunk I would be $60 in DIAL for some reason.  I 
agree that the DIAL prices need to be more realistic.  We buy DEC Junk III 
for $27, HP JUNK III for $25 and get a DIAL price for DEC Junk I and DEC 
JUNK III for $60.  I would prefer to see an open market for the used 
equipment.

Matt

    Before everyone starts thinking rotational inventory is sales/
    sales support's great backdoor to dream equipment, I'd like to
    point out that
    
    1. frequently it is in bad shape due to the last 30 shows it went to
    
    2. usually you have no idea when it will get "called" to new duties,
    	depriving you of a resource you might have started to depend on
    
    3. due to 2, you may spend less time personalizing things and making
    	it work just so
    
    4. if it is really good stuff, often it will get called upon for demos,
    	each of which typically requires massive software reconfiguration
    
    5. mostly the folks who are expert at some technology will get an item, 
    	whereas a generalist has last cut at the gear. For instance, PCI
    	experts getting PCs and Macs (except for the recent devp of sales
    	laptops--but these are not rot. inv. items, right?)
    
    6. the expert "scroungers" tend to have more of the good stuff than
    people who are not so inclined, which is why I think scrounging is an
    invaluable skill at Digital, but one which can lead you to spend a lot
    of time looking for your next DECiron 3.
    
    These are my observations and not any approval or judgement
    of how things work.
    
    	erik
    
    ps-- I haven't been in the field for a little while, maybe things are
    changing.

>
>    do people turn off the screen of their workstations and terminals
>    when they go home for the day?
>
>    i thought that is good for the equipments life time?
>
Not only that it saves power. Here in Switzerland one of our largest 
customers has a number of large LAVCs with 50+ workstations. The
Swiss are environmentally friendly and want to power down their
workstations every night due to the waste of resources (power). Due
to cluster considerations we try to dissuade them. 

Now DEC is trying to promote itself as an environmentally friendly
company. I believe other companies (SUN, HP?) have workstations
which switch into some sort of low-power standby mode. Why can't
we do this and help save some more important resources??

/Paul.

> I believe other companies (SUN, HP?) have workstations
>which switch into some sort of low-power standby mode. Why can't
>we do this and help save some more important resources??

	The US Department of Energy is trying to promote this idea for PCs.
	And DEC is involved in this project. It would probably be nice to
	extend this to workstations as well.

			Alfred

    I like to take my sandwich out of the refrigerator about an hour before
    lunch and set it over the vents on top of my terminal.  Makes it taste
    better, I think.  
    
    Is this a misuse of physical resources or an undocumented hardware feature?
    

re: .11 and .12

I think the price on Dial represent the remaining depreciation cost of the item.
What I don't understand is why this depreciation cost can't simply be
transferred to the new owning cost center and the item continues to be
depreciated at the same rate as before, but the charge going to the new cost
center.

If this is the case, then the selling cost center has very little incentive
to 'jack up' the price as the cost center takes a hit every month for the
depreciation and possibly maintenance charges.

If someone has more knowledge as to what the price on Dial represents, please
let us know.

Bob

    
    re. DIAL prices
    
    	The prices are the same problems our customers face daily.
    
    Equipment becomes obsolete VERY rapidly. When a company capitalizes a
    piece of equipment, it occurs over a 5 year (with exceptions)
    timeframe. When the price of new equipment drops the resultant
    depreciation will also drop, FREQUENTLY rendering older equipment not
    only slower, etc. but also MORE EXPENSIVE to keep. If you look at
    service prices, the maintenance costs are also higher on the older
    equipment for reasons such as MTBF, MTTR, etc.
    
    	The way a Corporation can discard capitalized equipment is guided
    by the FASB among other entities. Restructering costs are frequently
    used to "retire" the cap'ed equipment and aquire new. So, do you buy,
    buy and capitalize, lease, rent or out-source your DP/MIS needs?
    
    			fred deady

    You miss the point.               
    
    By methodically and mindlessly applying the depreciation rules that 
    affect the $14B Digital rollup on the 4 person cost center, equipment
    is collecting dust or thrown into dumpsters that can and ought to be
    used to make Digital profitable and grow.
    
    The amount of time that depreciation of capital equipment is consuming
    of third and fourth level managers is no joke either.
    
    Digital has a terminal case of depreciation constipation.
    
    Nothing in the IRS or SEC rules or common sense requires the signoffs
    and transfers of funny money that is cast in concrete here.
    
    My solution: Declare an immediate depreciation holiday and mark every
    workstation and system that was available in volume to customers prior
    to 1992 down to $100 on our books.

I've been informed offline that yes indeed, dial prices are the remaining
depreciation value on the hardware.

So, as Pat says in .19, if Digital REALLY wanted to allow the hardware
resources to go where they are needed, it should declare a depreciation
holiday and let us get some work done.

Bob

re: .9
>>Well, if they've got a workstation, all you need to do is
>>to hook the printer up to a serial port on the workstation (the
>>so-called "console" port will do), and run the queue on the 
>>workstation.  

>>Extra wiring needed = none.

Thanks for the networking lesson. I guess there's one in every crowd.
It may surprise you to know that we're well aware of this option, and 
utilize it whenever possible. As I said, we try to make sure all 
requests for extra lines are justified.  Most groups are usually able 
to justify extra or duplicate printers and hardware by insisting on 
having their own full complement of printers, not to be shared with 
the group across the aisle or the secretary in the next cubicle.

My point is that there are literally hundreds of print queues in some
of our buildings, and often there are identical printers in adjacent 
offices.  There is little or no sharing of these resources because 
they are owned by different groups, or because walking to the next 
cubicle is too inconvenient.

It's not our role to implement a facility wide printing strategy, i.e.
telling people that one queue for each aisle or block of offices is 
enough. If we were to attempt such a feat, we'd be in daily conflict 
with the c.c. managers who approve or request these installs. If there's 
going to be a change, the policy needs to be driven from higher up.

Rick

    
    
    	Rick, 
    
    	I hear ya! I work in the Mill and we have over 400 queues on one
    system, a system with 200 users. First the competition was for *everyone* 
    to have their own postscript LNO3, regardless of their actual work demand,
    more on keeping up appearances. Now the emphasis is on LN06's, color 
    printers, LPS20's, PC's, PC queues, Workstation queues. Doesn't matter if 
    the user is just going to use a PC to emulate to the VAX to read Mail. 
    They *need* the PC cause "SO and SO" has one. Sickening. And by the way, 
    you may be laid off next week cause we're not making money. Management 
    still hasn't a clue.
     
    	Before you go and clear out Dial, I think alot of you Sales Support 
    folks would make a killing if you came to the MILL and cleaned out the 
    empty cubes (bone yards) around here filled with equipment. There's no 
    cost cutting going on around here when hardware is concerned.
    
     
                        				Regards,
    							-Dave
                                                             

    Printers and queues have been a bane for years. I have worked in groups
    where management backed a printer strategy that said NO personal
    queues. The Operations group set up printer areas. The management
    pretty much had the gonads to back it up and turn down all the
    primadonnas who wanted their own queue.
    
    However, as times changed so did the backbone of management. It's kinda
    ironic because one of the biggest complaints towards IS groups is the
    ability to print. Printers being down, queues stalled, etc. If
    management had kept their backbone and said NO more often and allowed
    us peon system people to continue with the Printer areas concept the
    issue of printing would be less of an issue. Possibly a simplistic
    view but try managing a cluster that has 600 queues spread out amongst
    12 buildings in 4 sites. 
    
    Kinda of the track but not really. There are too many queues within
    DEC meaning we internally bought way too many printers.
    
    Jim C.
    

>    I like to take my sandwich out of the refrigerator about an hour before
>    lunch and set it over the vents on top of my terminal.  Makes it taste
>    better, I think.  

Hmmm. Sounds okay to me...



BTW, how does your terminal taste without the sandwich flavoring?

;^}

Lee

    Wow! Did this set me off.  I agree completely with the waste that's
    going on!  Working in the field it's always been like pulling teeth to
    get equipment, and it's impossible now!  We always heard Engineering
    had the latest and greatest stuff to use but we never could get it out
    here in the field.  Imagine what it's like to try and sell stuff that
    you don't even know how it works!
    
    As far as the current situation, it makes me sick.  I desparately need
    memory for my workstation but can't get it, and it's even more
    frustrating knowing that so much equipment is idle - due to the TSFO's
    and due to hogs like those described in .0.
    
    We have a specialist in our office who has a system at home, and had an
    idle workstation here in the office which he never used.  But, when he
    heard it might be re-assigned he quickly came in, scarfed it up, and
    now it's sitting at home collecting dust.  So, since it's not in sight
    it's less vulnerable to re-assignment.
    
    It's a disgusting waste that's occuring at Digital, and to make it
    worse, the politics of the past two years have deteriorated the
    equipment tracking procedures and more than normal amounts are being
    lost. 
    
    I could go on and on but that's it for my editorial of the day. 
    
      

    I've been echoing .0's sentiments for years.  Here in NJ, us project
    folks were scrounging for VT100's while they were installing VAXmates
    on the Sales secretaries' desks.  Now we're trying to find workstations
    or windows terminals and all of the Sales secretaries have DECpc433
    workstations with the humongo monitors and their own personal laser
    printer (separate LAT port, not connected to the PC).  I can't find a
    PC on the software side when I want to copy some work to a floppy to
    take home.  And all the Sales secretaries do is run terminal emulation
    into some VAX running ALL-IN-1 to read their manager's mail.
    
    Not only that, but the sales support group seems to get a new VAX every
    other year or so.  It wasn't too long ago they got an 8530.  It was
    recently replaced with a 4000/something.  We're still running on a 6
    year old MicroVAX II which we've been scrounging for parts to keep
    running.
    
    And then I look over the fence on the other side of the yard and think
    we've got it made compared to Field Service...
    
    tom_p

My cube in InfoServer Software Engineering:

	WAYLAY - my VAXstation 4000 Model 60.  WAYLAY used to be a 12 meg
		VS3100 that my (then) new group bought me when my old group
		reclaimed my VS3540 (which had originally been picked up
		"free" as a proto unit and upgraded to be supported.) 
		It's been used for everything from a test system to doing VMS
		driver development complete with the associated crashing.
		Along the way I'd managed to scrounge an RZ24 so I could
		continue to upgrade VMS and the right memory cards to bring
		it up to 32 meg. When the engineer responsible for the ULTRIX
		client in our group needed a VAX as well as his MIPS machine
		to build kits, I offered him the old hardware and ordered a 
		VS4000/60 as a replacement.

	VXT2000 terminal - The InfoServer supports this device.  I use it
		for X-sessions on the cluster, as console windows for the
		InfoServers in my office and as a test device.  Before the
		actual VXT hardware was ready, we all ran VS2000's running
		the VXT software.  The VS2000s all came from DIAL.

	4 (varies) InfoServers.  One is one of the original proto
		InfoServer 100 units.  At one time I had one of the first
		InfoServer 150 units so that I could do the boot support
		but that one's since gone to another member of my group.
		One of the 150's in my office hosts the VXT terminals for
		30 people and the others are all test units.

	Assorted SCSI devices.  RRD40s, RRD42s, TZ85, TLZ04, proto TLZ06
		RWZ01 and Alphatronix Inspire MO drives.  A lot of this
		stuff was given to us by the hardware groups so we could
		qualify them on the InfoServer.  Some of it has been
		begged, borrowed or midnight requisitioned to meet needs.

	The only extra resources I required was power.  Everything in my
office runs off a single ThinWire daisy chain.  Our offices are behind a
bridge (that we provided) because our regression tests do a serious number
on the wire.

	So what's my point.  I guess my point is "a lot of equipment" is
relative.  It depends on your job.  I agree that there are a lot of people
who could use a lot of equipment that's sitting idle.  We looked at DIAL
recently to try to pick up some peripherals that we lack (after all,
everyone expects absolutely everything to work on the InfoServer and some
stuff we've never even seen before) but except for mostly useless (to us)
things like RZ23s most of the interesting stuff was over $1k.

	Maybe DIAL should have a blowout yard sale!

					--Doug

    re: .26
    
    I also work in NJ, but in sales support. I don't agree with Tom's
    characterizations of the secretaries. As Tom is in our northern NJ
    facility, I can't fault him if that's what's happening in NJO. Here in
    KYO, our secretary's DECpc 433 systems are used for more than terminal
    emulation. They prepare RFP responses, diagrams, etc. They are learning
    all the products on the PC, making them more valuable to Digital. They
    also don't have any problem with us using them for preparing floppies
    for our own use.
    
    I do agree that the Professional Services Organization does not see the
    value of getting "real" equipment to services delivery people. Every
    service delivery person who goes out a customer should take their own
    VLC with a CDROM to use every single tool we have available. This would
    differentiate our services personnel and let them get the job done
    faster and easier. 
    
    Also, the systems which sales support gets for demo purposes are
    eventually sold or returned for sale. It's hard to demo DECmcc on a
    VS2000. 

    I concur with .28 (and .0).  I'm lucky that my current client buys me
    whatever equipment is necessary to complete my tasks.  This includes a
    VXT-2000, A Gateway 486/50DX2, a Mac Quadra 700, a Mac Duo 230,
    printers, SLIP-ready terminal servers, modems, mucho software,
    whatever.  Not a day goes by that I don't use each major system
    (including the 2 VAX 4000's).
    
    Because of this, IMHO I provide a greater level of support that has
    saved my client at least $20K beyond my normal work (this _calander
    year).  Contrast this to my first client with DEC, an Operations and
    Maintenance contractor.
    
    There I started using the resources they had: a VT220 and access to an
    LN03 print queue.  Real hard using a tool like DECdesign with such
    tools. :) Luckily, my [DEC] manager supplied me with a 3100 and enough
    memory (just barely) to get DECdesign, DECwrite, and other Digital
    tools up and running.
    
    I provided the client professional looking documentation and a
    formalized document describing the application work I did.  The tools
    made the difference, and also showed that a properly configured system
    is as useful as well-stocked tool chest is to a mechanic.
    
    But as .0 indicated, certain people in our office have equipment at
    home that could be used by other specialists or office personnel.  But
    then again, why would a Software Spec. need more then a VT100/220 to
    delivery their $150-180K of cunsulting a year.
    
    --- Gavin
    
    P.S. - That 3100 I used is still in the office and used heavily.  Of
    course it still only has 16MB or RAM, and two 105MB RZ23's (22's?).  My
    PC at home has more capability then that.
    

              
    Re: DIAL
    
    I 'found' a number of Tandy 386/25 PCs on DIAL.  The package consisted
    of a box with power supply, motherboard and one floppy drive.  No
    memory, keyoard, mouse, hard drive, video card or monitor, DOS or
    Windows.  The price for this empty shell?  $1362!!!!!
    
    Since a similar package costs less that $300 in the world, I can't in
    good conscience ask my cost center to part with such an exhorbitant
    amount of money.  So I do without, and the 386/25 sits idle.
    
    Ed
    
    

re. .19

>    My solution: Declare an immediate depreciation holiday and mark every
>    workstation and system that was available in volume to customers prior
>   to 1992 down to $100 on our books.

So this depreciation holiday ... Do you mean move the 'above-$100-asset-
value' remaining and expense it to depreciation?  If so, then it should
show up in the income statement and reduce income from operations (affecting
net income negatively).  (Granted it's not a cash outflow).

Don't think Uncle Bob wants that right now...

    re: .30
    
    Right that's the depreciation constipation I referred to in .19.
    Equipment that can be used will remain idle until it is time to send
    them to the crusher.
    
    re: .31
    
    "Digital" is stuck with the depreciation, there's no doubt about it.
    
    The _internal_ problem is the assigned value of the equipment reflects
    no reality and the artificial burdens placed on surviving cost centers
    for acquiring DIAL equipment.  Cost centers go extinct and then tens of
    thousands of dollars of depreciation value Tandy computers appear on
    the DIAL that have thousands of dollars of market value.

    And then it is sent to PDC for rendering to plastic, aluminum,
    steel and the rest incinerated.
    
    Because we refuse to sell it as used or offer it to employees
    for purchase.
    
    A real waste of resources.   mwr

    re: 30...
    
    Isn't this the same "package" that we were selling thru PCBYDEC for
    $250? One of my custors bought one brand new at that price. Granted, we
    were selling them below transfter costs but we were at least
    recognizing real world worth vs. our original costs.

    RE: .30
    
    I've just been through the same experience, although with x486 based
    systems.  We ended up paying more through DIAL for systems than we
    would have had to through IEG for the exact same equopment that:
    
    	May not work when we get it, although it's likely that it does
    
    	May or may not have the documentation, software, setup disks,
    	keyboards, mice, etc to make it work
    
    	Is used, may be dented, etc (won't work for our demo center)
    
    
    However, given that the company has "forced" marketing groups to issue
    any customer presentation in Powerpoint format (which doesn't run on a
    VAX, VAXstation or DECstation) and run sonly on a PC/DOS/Windows, I had
    to get them.    Total "additional" cost to our cost center on about
    	$20K worth of stuff was about 15%. 
    
    
    However, that's only funny money, and the company doesn't spend any
    cash for these things, where if I had bought through IEG, (If I could)
    some cash would have been spent on these.  Given the cash position of
    the company, I can understand not allowing us to buy new stuff, but for
    christ sakes, when we're allocated limited resources to do the jobs
    we're asked to do, it really sucks that we have to do with less in
    order to keep from spending "cash"
    
    
    Bill Jackson
    Alpha Personal Systems Marketing
    

  Am I missing something or is this a case of a bar room brawl that spilled
out into the street. 

  As I understand it, equipment purchases are handled at the cost center level.
Have those of you who need equipment tried taking the issue up with your cost
center director or is there some corporate reason why the field can't get any
equipment?

  George

>Have those of you who need equipment tried taking the issue up with your cost
>center director or is there some corporate reason why the field can't get any
>equipment?

    Many years ago, when I was in the field, it appeared that field
    organizations were driven by very tight margins. So what happened was
    that if corporate didn't buy the hardware for the field the field
    didn't get hardware. Asking the CC manager why we couldn't get 
    hardware was usually answered by "corporate didn't give us any money
    for hardware." I don't suspect things have changed.

    			Alfred

    Re: .25
    
    >We have a specialist in our office who has a system at home, and had an
    >idle workstation here in the office which he never used.  But, when he
    >heard it might be re-assigned he quickly came in, scarfed it up, and
    >now it's sitting at home collecting dust.  So, since it's not in sight
    >it's less vulnerable to re-assignment.
    
    Hmmm... just curious... who signed the property pass that let this
    guy take his toy home, and did this person ask for any justification?
    
    --jim
    

    re: .38
    
    The specialist took it out of the office with the knowledge of his unit
    manager.  He's a real agreeable guy. He also just "gave away" a PC to
     someone that was TSFO'd.  I can see the human compassion side of all
    of this but someone has to have a backbone and manage our equipment
    smartly.  
    
    As far as the other note asking why the field doesn't get equipment,
    Alfred had it right: the field has tight margins (EIS/Digital Services
    and Customer Services anyway) and aren't budgeted with enough capital
    money to get anything worthwhile - just emergency fixes.  Nowadays, I
    don't even think there is a capital budget for us.  

re: Cost of equipment on DIAL...

Hi,

I couldn't help but clarify that the cost of equipment on DIAL is 
never absolutely standard cost or transfer cost or something else.
It all depends on how it got on DIAL.  It's best to ask when you 
call on availability.  How much is it?  Is it already capped?  Etc?

FWIW....our group agrees with the idea that (for us) it is best to 
use equipment from DIAL rather than buy new for many of the reasons 
already stated here..ie.. avoid having digital spend money building
new stuff to fill our orders while idle assets are costing digital
money to gather dust.

BTW...there is a SALEM::DIAL notesfile...press PF1 7 to enter...


						Roxanne