Conference 7.286::digital

    Not only do we do this to employees, we do it to customers too....

    A few years ago I made an arithmetic error on a voucher that was
    not caught locally.  I wrote myself a Traveletter (a check that
    Field employees can write to themselves or to hotels, etc. for
    expense reimbursement - it has a weekly limit that varies by
    individual) for the amount on the voucher.

    Several weeks later I received a letter posted first class from
    Traveletter administration. hand signed, threatening to revoke my
    Traveletter privileges if I did not immediately remit the $0.10
    that I owed them.  I figure between clerical handling on both
    ends, postage, the extra voucher, my time, etc. it cost the
    company about $20.00 and it cost me an additional 10� check
    charge.

	Mike

    If you look at the vtx jobs book you will see that there are a lot of
    postings for accounting types, Finance Manager VI's, Chancelor of the
    Exchequer, General of Finance, and on and on, etc. etc.  At the time I
    thought it ironic that were losing money big time so we need more of
    these high priced legume enumerators.  These noters have demonstrated
    that there is indeed a lack of ability or common sense in the
    accounting ranks.
    
    DAR
    
    PS Maybe go back to school and take an accounting course, there may be
    a future there.

    may be they look at it like this?
    
    100
    ---
    \   penny  = $1
    /
    ---
    i=1
    
    
    100
    --
    \
    / $1  = $100
    --
    i=1
    
    
    100
    --
    \   $100 = $10,000
    /  
    --
    i=1
    
    .... etc.. 
    
     

    When I worked for a VAR of ours, we had a statement package. This
    package allowed the user to specify the minimum statement value.  Any
    statement for less than that value was not printed/sent, and (at the
    user's option) either the program would simply bring those customers'
    balances down to zero or produce a list of those customer's so that the
    user could make the judgement call.  This was a feature that our users
    demanded, and it was occasionally a bit of a selling point.
    
    	And we (Digital) call ourselves a computer comany?
    
    	*sigh*
    
    	Peter

    re .4
    
    So if each collection costs $20, by your third iteration to collect 10K
    would have cost 100^3*20=$20,000,000 less of course monies collected
    10K so the total benefit would be ($19,990,000.02) assuming .0's check
    doesn't bounce.
    
    DAR

    Woops I subtracted instead of added in .4.  The company benefit would
    be ($19,989,999.98) That's why chemists aren't accountants.
    
    DAR

    My manager's manager said write the check for three cents -- see what
    happens!
    
    Another thought is to make the check bounce -- as stated in an earlier
    note...
    
    Funny.
    

    My bank won't honor a check for under $1.00.  
    
    I won't carry pennies.  When I get them in change they go to the penney
    bank which gets rolled up once every year or so.
    
    I propose a referendum that disallows any prices, charges, or taxes
    that are not expressible in even dollars.

    I know more than one person in Digital who have expense refund checks
    under 10 cents.  
    
    Most of them keep 'em as souvenirs.  Must really screw the books up!
    

    so any bill less than $ 20.00 should be dropped.
    
    
    buzz

    Re: .11
    
    No.  Any discrepancy over a dollar or so should accumulate and charged
    or credited to the cost center say once per year to balance the books. 
    For a obvious error of like $50 just send it back to the originator. 
    If we have big wigs that can rack up a $1000 bar bill (you've probably
    read some of that discussion in a previous note) and sign the expense
    themselves, you cannot tell me we couldn't figure out a way to handle
    loose change.
    
    DAR

    By the way, why does the government still mint pennies? I understand it
    costs more than one cent to make one.
    
    Hillel
    

    A number of large multinational companies have successfully lobbied the
    US government to continue minting pennies so that they can balance
    their books.
    
    DAR

    
    There was a story in the NY Times several years ago about a homeless
    man who received a bill from the IRS for $10,000 in back taxes.
    Unemployed and penniless, he started sending empty cans to the IRS
    as payment. The IRS refused to accept them, but was later compelled
    to do so under after much legal wrangling.
    
    IMHO, the IRS got what they so richly deserved.
    
    Now, since you say that your bank wont honor a check for less than
    one dollar....
                  

    
    Come on now.  I got a bill from Amex for $0.02 just last month.  I
    called, ask if they we serious and after some good laughs with the Amex
    employee, he just pushed a couple of buttons on the old-magic-computer
    and "wrote it off".
    
    Can't we do the same?   Yea, I know 2+2+2+2.....=$$ but really, how
    often does it happen?  Why not "the next time I owe a voucher I'll
    leave ya $0.02".
    
    We worry too much....
    

re .13

� By the way, why does the government still mint pennies?  I understand it costs
� more than one cent to make one.

This was true in the early 80s when pennies still had lots of copper in them.
They are now made mostly of nickel with a thin copper layer on the outside.

Paul

    re: .17
    
    Today's pennies are made from a zinc penny blank which is plated with
    copper.  These blanks are then shipped to the mint to be struck.  (I
    helped test the plating equipment)
    
    DAR

    RE: 13
    
    The penney costs the mint 7/10'ths of a cent to produce, this includes
    shipping to the member banks. The reason they still produce it is the
    publics refusal to allow retailers to round up or down to the nearest
    nickle and the mint makes money off of production. Most people when
    they get pennies stash them in jars and wont even pick them up off the
    ground. So once the mint produces them, at a profit, they do not remain
    in circulation thereby creating the need to produce more. The old
    Lincoln will be with us for a long time.

You couldn't sell a $1 valued product for $4.99, which is about $4, right?

 }8-)}

	Why yes there is a conference dealing with coins. And stamps. From
	ANCHOR""::NET$LIBRARY:EASYNOTES.LIS

Stamps and Coins                MR4SRV::STAMPS_N_COINS                      1047

			Alfred

The State of Ohio income tax return specifes if the amount owed (either way)
is $2.00 or less, nobody has to pay. DEC should review the cost of processing
and come up with a similar setup.

Lee

    Next thing, your bank will charge you extra for processing such a
    silly-assed check!
    
    Send 'em a two cent stamp, and tell THEM to solve THEIR problem.

	Gosh, if 2� is that important, it's really great news for all
	of us!

	It's often been said, by people who really are in a position to
	know, that "our people are our most valuable asset". More valuable
	than cash, then. So just *think* how the company must be sparing
	no effort to avoid wasting the equivalent of 2� of its "human
	resources" - say 3 seconds of a sales person's, consultant's or
	engineer's time!

	This is really heartening. "Not a sparrow falls..."

	/Tom

    
    re: .19
    
>    shipping to the member banks. The reason they still produce it is the
>    publics refusal to allow retailers to round up or down to the nearest
>    nickle and the mint makes money off of production. Most people when
    
    	Oh yea! :-)
    
    	How come if a gallon of gas sells for 1.10 (9/10's) and I ask for
    a gallon, they charge me 1.11?  Seems like those gas stations have been
    bilking us for years of that tenth of a cent!
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

At one point, the DCU charged me 18� on my Visa card, which I had just paid in
full.  It seemed to be a straggling interest amount.  Anyway, under the Fair
Credit Reporting Act, I challenged the charge and requested an explanation in
writing.  A very nice lady called me and said that they were waiving the
charge.  I thanked her and then repeated my request for a response in writing.
She demured.  I insisted.  I ultimately got my explanation in writing.

The point?  If someone is silly enough to try to hit me with that kind of
charge, I'll make sure pain is felt all around.

BobW

   $.39
   $4.99
   $4999.95
   
   This is a marketing ploy.  The human mind is amazing in its capacity
   to take raw, clear, concise, unmistakable data and mis-interpret it
   (at least in the US).
   
   It turns out that we are not built with a round function in our math
   coprocessors.  We only have truncate.  Research has found that the
   typical consumer will interpret as follows:
   
   	$.39 	becomes $.30
   
   	$4.99	becomes $4.00
   
   	$4999.95 becomes $4900 or $4000
   
   It is astounding at how many people will look right at the car
   sticker which states $12,999 and say to themselves, "That's only
   twelve-thousand dollars.  I'll take two."

Re: .0

You should send that reply to Delta, along with a suggestion to drop anything
under $1.00.   Please post their reply.

Alternative for the more adventurous...

Send a check for $.02 to Ken Olsen with an explaination that you wish to 
clear your account.

8^)

Bob

    RE: .28  
     
    IMO:  DELTA is more trouble than they're worth, they've caused me and
    my group to spend a lot time (time=money) writing memos justifying why
    we do what we do, and in one instance we had already implemented the
    change/s suggested.  The person that submitted the request checked 
    what we had done, then said, "Oh."
    
    I don't think Mr. Olsen would be amused by my request.
    
    The reason I entered this was to make a point: Logic is gone --
    completely.  Until we can start using logic again, we (the company
    -- and the U.S. for that matter) will continue in the same direction
    we've been going for the past several years.
    
    Sad, real sad.
    
    Tom 
    

    RE: .29-
    
    	>Logic is gone-- completely.
    
    	I couldn't agree more.
    
    	In my book, logic and "horse sense" have a common thread. My
    grandmother once told me: "Horse sense is what keeps horses from
    betting on people."
    
    Phil

    i think that this is all a symptom of modern society, people get so 
    robotized, they only know how to follow what is on the form, step
    by step, as the system says, if the system says do this then they
    do this, they stop thinking, afraid to, for themselves. it is much
    more safe to just follow the steps one by one, without thinking
    if the system makes sense...

    so, dont blame the people , welcome to the modern age !

    this is a funny story happen to me not too long ago:

    i went to local bank , filled an application to ask them to mail a check
    for my money when the CD expires.
    After I filled the form and signed it this happen.
    manager: Do you have a picture ID?
    me: sorry I forgot it at home, work Badge be ok?
    manager: no, it must be a driver license. (the mystery of driver
    license always amazes me, what about people who ride bicycles ?)
    me: then how does one living in cowalla-lambore withdraw their money?
        they cant fly over to here to show you their driver license?
    manager: they must write a letter and sign it authorizing us to mail
             the  check .
    me: ... i picked a blank piece of paper, wrote the request on it
    signed it and gave it to the manager.
    manager: you cant do that! we need to get the authorization in mail!
    me: do you have an extra envelop and a stamp i can borrow please?
    manager: NO !
    me: ok (i got scared, manager was getting mad), i drove back home and got
    my wallet and came back, every one was happy and the system worked as it 
    is supposed to...

    another time when i moved to Detroit, I went to rent an Apt., the manager 
    asked for a local back account, so i went to the local bank to get an 
    account, they said i need to go and get a local address to open an account 
    so i went to try the local post office to get a mail box, the post office 
    said you must have a local address before they can give me mail box
    because they want to verify Iam a local resident ! 

    .. you solve this one !

    /nasser

     Re: .31

     Reminds me of the time I came back from an overseas business trip
     that arrived late on a Saturday night at Logan, causing me to miss
     the last connecting flight to Vermont.

     I went to the AVIS desk to try to get a one-way rental to Vermont,
     and was told "We don't have any cars for one-way rental available"
     (I now know I never should have told them it was one-way).  In a 
     moment of sudden inspiration, I walked over to their red courtesy
     reservation phone, reserved a one-way rental at Logan for that 
     same day, waited a few minutes, and went back to the same clerk
     and got my car.

     -gary

re: .28

If you choose to take no action to resolve this "Lack of Logic", then you have
no right to complain if it continues.  People, in general, are inertia driven.
They will continue in a straight line unless some force acts upon them.

It is not the company that is responsible for these problems, it is an individual
who sets (or approves) a policy.

To fix the problem, find that individual, and teach them some logic.  It will 
take no longer than it took to explain it in a notesfile, and might actually
accomplish something (like saving us some money, or improving the job of a 
fellow employee).

Be part of the solution...

Bob

    Logic escapes my insurance company State Farm.  They automatically take
    their permium every month out of my chequing account.  Since they
    divide the premium by quarter, they must send me a statement telling me
    of the changes.  So..for example...at a premium of say $300.04...
    
    Month one they deduct $100.01 
    Month two they deduct $100.02 (change statement mailed to me)
    Month three back to $100.01 (change statement mailed to me)
    
    I figure each time they  do this they run up computer time, $0.42 to
    mail the statement, the cost of the statement, the envelope, printer
    time, my banks time ..rough estimate $3 - $5 - for one cent.  
    
    Don't tell me they arn't making money.

    My father used to Run a multibillion dollar company. One of the
    warehousing compoenents was having a devil of a time keeping things
    accurate. One of the biggest problem was the cheap consumables. You
    know, cost 10 for a penny, use thousands of them, and spend forever
    going through the paperwork.  At my suggestion, they took said items,
    and "expensed" them. Put them in 55 gallon bins at the front of the
    warehouse. A line was drawn on the inside of each bin, to signify that
    it was re-order time. Everyone (including the auditors, were happy).
    
    I tried to do the same when I was in Field Service in DEC. Anyone that
    knows the Logistics System in DEC, knows that 90 class part numbers are
    in theory, no cost. These include tie-wraps, assorted nuts and bolts
    and so on. I tried for months to get the F/S Logistics system, to stock
    them, consume them, and have them available at the Engineer's
    discretion. MY motivation was partially pride in my work. If I had to
    dismantle a system for what ever reason. When I put it back together, I
    would dress the cables, replace cut tie wraps, and so on. I finally
    won, but then, this was the same Logistics system that told me that I
    could not have absolute filters to do PM's on disk drives, because
    there had been no previous history of consumption... 
    
    ***
    One of the most disheartening aspects about this whole downturn in the
    economy thing, is that we are progressively nickle and diming
    ourselves, more and more. Rather, we should be spending that dime here,
    and that nickel there, to show that we have that little bit extra that
    makes the difference.  What is at issue, is not the number of people
    that we have or the architectures of the computers that we make but the
    comfort our customers feel in doing business with us. 
    
    From the F/S engineer that takes a few minutes to explain quick
    trouble-shooting to a new computer owner, to the Secretary that answers
    the phone promptly and cheerfully, to the Software or Hardware
    Engineer, that gives that little extra thought to the bugs, that might
    just slip by, to the accountants that make sure that the statements are
    accurate, and the bills are paid on time.
    
    The MBA's can claim all that they want that it is the bottom line that
    will make or break this company. Wrong! It is the attitude and moral of
    it's employees.
    
    q
    

    There has been a definite attitude shift in society in general. I can't
    put my finger on the cause nor when it happened, but it happened.
    
    I can, however, remember when attitudes began changing within DEC. But
    first let's talk about the general shift in societies attitude.
    
    This countries growth as an industrial power was performed by people
    that took pride in there work. They performed there job as well as they
    possibly could and took pride in the fact that no one could do there
    job better than themselves. They would spend as much time as it took to
    do it right, and the management expected it to be that way. As a child
    growing up, I remember laughing with my friends when ever we say
    something that said "Made in Japan" because it was junk. The companies
    were measured not a the thickness of the bottom line, but on how it
    treated it's employees. They prided themselves on lifetime employment
    and the benefits they provided. That was there measure of success.
    
    Things have changed a great deal since the good old days. But not just
    in the way companies now think of the employees, but also how employees
    think. Heres an example : It was nearing the end of shift in a steel
    mill when a very important piece of machinary broke down. Without it,
    the mill was stopped cold. The first shift team rushed to begin to fix
    the problem when all of a sudden, the whistle blew ending the shift. 7
    of the 10 man crew started to leave when 1 of the 3 asked "Hey, where
    are you going, we have to fix this thing". 1 of the seven turned and
    said "Hey, it's the end of shift, I'm done for the day. Let the second
    shift guys fix it". All of the 7 were young guys and all of the 3 were
    old timers. There is a definite shift in attitude between the age
    groups. The old timers took on the responsibility to fix the machine
    and new it had to be fixed in order for the mill to continue to
    operate. The young guys felt they had worked there shift and now it was
    the problem of the second shift. No loyalty to the company and as a
    matter of fact, no loyalty or communication with the second shift.
    
    This is what has happened to us. You don't punish an employee by
    suspending him, because he will say something like "Great, I have
    things I have to get done at home and could use a few days off" No, You
    punish him by making him work overtime. That really gets them. Think
    about it. Have we got to the point that we don't give a damn? Have we
    become so unresponsive and selfish that nothing else matters but
    ourselves. 
    
    DEC used to be a place where you were hired because of your expertise.
    You were given a goal and a time line, then told to go do it. The
    project was yours to complete. Just keep everyone informed of the
    progress and go do it. We were not afreid to make mistakes and we knew
    we would along the way. All we focused on was getting the job done on
    time, within budget, and making it the best it could be.
    
    DEC today doesn't work that way. Everybody is told how to do it, when
    to do it and ridiculed if a mistake is made along the way. This
    attitude breeds reluctants, self dought, fear, and lack of self esteme.
    
    We have to get back to the old ways. Let the workers do the job. Give
    them the goal, and let them go. Management should stay out of the way,
    and let the people do the job. Let them take responsibility for the
    project, the ownership. Management should be a guiding force, a place
    where support comes from, not ridicule.
    
    This is the only way the workers and the companies will get back on
    track. With everybody feeling good about themselves.
    
    Sorry for being so long winded.
    Eric...
    

    My favorite was in New Hampshire...
    
    I had just been relocated and went down to get my drivers license and
    car registration.  
    
    I asked the clerk "I'd like to get my car registered."
    
    She said "You need a valid New Hampshire drivers license"
    
    I said "Ok, I need to do that too, while I'm here"
    
    She said "You can't get a drivers license unless your car is registered
    here" 
    
    (As Dave Barry says...I am not making this up!)
    
    So we kind of stared at each other for a moment...catch-22 going
    through my mind.
    
    Finally she turned around, called someone at DMV in Concord, came back
    a minute later and said "fill out the application for the drivers
    license and we will accept that as proof of residency to get your car
    registered.  Then we will make an appointment for you to come in and
    get your drivers license"
    
    For a minute there, I thought I was going to have to move back to New
    Mexico.  After 2 years of this type of New Hampshire quirkiness, I
    finally DID move back to N.M.
    

    Welcome back to NM!

    Customer bills of less than $10 should be charged to goodwill.  They
    are literally more expensive to process than they're worth, and
    goodwill is worth more than the amount payable.
    
    I would say the same of any employee-due amount of less than $1.
    
    You could quibble about the magnitude of the number, but is there any
    doubt of the common sense of it?

I'd guess there's a legal problem in not paying employees what they're owed,
even if it's $.01.  There should be no problem in writing off small accounts
payable.

    What is the problem with our computer programs? All customers have an
    ID number (I hope). Why can't we just carry the balance until the next
    time they order? We send out ONE bill with the small amount, if it
    isn't paid, we simply carry it until we get the next order and then add
    it on to the bill. How many bits on a disk does it take to do this?
    
    I know that credit card companies force you to pay every penny by
    imposing a minimum $.50 interest charge. However, what I do is to
    overpay by a small amount forcing them to send me a bill every month
    saying that I have a credit. If they were smart, they'd simply cut a
    check when a credit occurs and save themselves the trouble.

>    What is the problem with our computer programs? All customers have an
>    ID number (I hope). Why can't we just carry the balance until the next
 
	Ah yes, customer numbers, some customers have many ID numbers, some
	ID numbers used in one area is used for a different customer in
	another area.........................

	Heather

RE:  41

We do carry the amount owed to us on our Accounts Receivable system.  Our 
customers do not pay in this manner.  Our customers want to map each invoice
to a purchase order of their's.  If there is anything on the invoice that does
not map to the purchase order payment is delayed.

    re .43
    
    And we do the same, attempting to account for every receipt of
    anything and register when it gets here.  Guess what, that imposes a
    cost of operation which is sometimes greater than the goods received. 
    Its another case of a rule being applied in cases where it makes
    no sense.  It happens all the time in big companies.
    
    Dick

    Well, then don't put in the same bill. Enclose the past due bill in the
    same envelope and put a "Maybe you've forgotten about this?" sticker on
    it and at least call it to their attention. 
    
    I guess the real problem is that if they send us the wrong amount, we
    simply deposit it, instead of returning it for the correct amount. If
    we return the check, we lose the interest and may have to delay payment
    to our vendors, etc. 
    
    Then on the next order, we don't hold the order because of the
    outstanding balance. This is to prevent customer satisfaction problems.
    As I am not in Accounts Receivable, I expect this is a really thorny
    problem. Why don't we simply turn these over to a collection agency,
    give them 50% of the outstanding balance, and let them go get the
    money?
    
    However, the reverse is also true. If the customer overpays because we
    issue a credit between the bill and payment, we send them a BILL with a
    credit instead of just cutting a check instead.
    
    The best part is that computers do this so fast!