Conference 7.286::digital

    re: .1
    
    So 10% of the field will be affected. Nonsense!
    
    I work in sales support and 45% of our group was layed off in the last
    coule of days. I'm not sure it's over yet. We now have 13 people left 
    in sales support to support a district office and all of DECs
    products - which are getting ever more numerious and
    complicated.
    
    I haven't been this depressed since I was informed I was being sent
    to Vietnam.
    
    Will the last one out turn out the lights. It seems we have decided to
    become a 8-9 billion dollar a year company. And in a hurry.
    
    Gene.

    Great. Even with soft balls lobbed across the plate, the writers
    couldn't come up with honest answers in many places.
    
    But never mind that. Things are not good in this company. Organized chaos
    on its way to becoming disorganized, the head of the company seemingly
    cut off from the troops, etc. That's all bad enough.
    
    The very *least* I think that the management terrorists could do is just
    stop this god-awful euphemizing. "Downsizing" and "Outplacing",
    baloney.
    
    These people are being fired. 
    
    Scooter

    At least there is "official" word.  That seems to be an improvement.
    
    Steve

    I had always assumed that the use of plain English was strictly
    forbidden in some obscure chapter of the P&P manual ;^)
    
    -dave

    .1, how many of the 45% were managers?   Just wonderin'........

    re: .5
    
    22 people went out the door. 1 was a manager. My manager. It's just my
    opinion but he was the best manager in the building and perhaps even
    more important he cared for his people. I can't say that about many
    others. Every cube around me is now empty.
    
    Gene

    It's not over yet?  As I write this note, security is watching a young
    woman pack two asiles over from where I sit.

    I understand there to be a difference between "Layoff" and "fire" and
    that is...
    
    a person is "laid off" as a result of business considerations. The
    position no longer exists.
    a person is "fired" for personal considerations. (malfeasance,
    misfeasance, criminal activity, sexual harassament etc)
    
    A automobile worker is "laid-off" when there is no work available.
    An automobile worker is "fired" for -say- being drunk on the job.
    
    A DCU executive would be "laid-off" (perhaps) if DIGITAL were to take
    over direct control of the Credit Union, or if the control were given
    to another entire organization.
    
    The same DCU executive would by "fired" if -say- she or he were
    pilfering funds or committing money to inappropriate activies.
    
    I think it is also the case that people who are "fired" for cause are
    NOT eligible for such things as unemployment assistance. Whereas people
    who are "laid-off" ARE eligible.
    
    
    				herb

Re:                     <<< Note 1530.1 by HAAG::HAAG >>>

>    So 10% of the field will be affected. Nonsense!
>    
>    I work in sales support and 45% of our group was layed off...

It's always harder to see the big picture when your group is especially hard 
hit.  I'm sure the 45% of your group *really is* a part of the bigger 10%.  I 
don't think anyone said it would be 10% across the board...

-  David

    Numbers are always funny things, this comes from a Math major. The
    reports all indicate that "only" 800 people were laid off this week.
    Now that is not 10% of anything in this company. However in our
    Accounts Group the number let go is about 10%. 
    
    When I read about 45% of a group or people sitting amongest empty
    cubes, or 100's in Chicago or elsewhere, I wonder about numbers.
    
    Maybe in all averaged out at 800 US Sales and Support, with some groups
    not affected at all.
    
    Frank

    re: the last few about numbers
    
    It seems our district was hit harder than most. We had our "survivors"
    meeting this PM and our sales DM said about 20% were let go throughout
    the district. It may average out to 10% around the country but it was a
    lot more here.
    
    I am an engineer by trade with much experience in multivendor
    networking, particularly DEC and IBM (which I worked with for 8 years).
    I am really interested how 10 (I was wrong about the number in .1)
    sales support people are going to handle supporting 45+ sales reps in
    this district.
    
    We took a real big hit on "corporate" accounts. That is, accounts in
    our geography but being supported some place else. I don't think any
    sales or support was bugeted for "local" accounts that have
    headquarters NOT in our geography. This topic is being drug to new
    levels in previous topic in this conference. Time will tell but this
    could be a real problem.
    
    BTW, accounts in this district that are headquartered in "other"
    goegraphies acounted for about 25% ($35 million) of last years revenue.
    When numbers, and only numbers, dominate your line of thinking, seldom
    does good things happen.
    
    Gene.

The current downsizing effort is a direct result of poor management 
decisions made during the late 1980's when our product lines sold
like hotcakes.  In a fanatical growth environment, it's easy to promote
financial performance as if it were CAUSED entirely by the performer.
Similarly, when the economy breaks down, Americans have traditionally 
blamed the current President -- though we know the Federal Reserve has
far more control over the economy than the President.  Having promoted
mediocrity, we now must pay for our past excesses.  One cannot manage
an investment intensive business through accounting alone -- and expect
to succeed at understanding fundamental contributions to success.  
Anyone can manage during success -- so that is when we promoted 
mediocre financial managers to manage a technical business.

Field managers would make better decisions if they had any clue as
to what their employees DO for a living.  Isn't it time to reverse the
accounting trend and revert to the fundamentals of understanding WHAT
the market demands, and then providing it?  Success only follows 
satisfaction of market demands -- the cost cutting and downsizing 
events cannot substantially increase our profitability for very long.
Instead we must take a new look at our products and services, and 
continue to solve new problems in unique and interesting ways.

I, for one, have always worked to understand business AND technology
in the same breath.  Why not let go all the managers who cannot clearly
discuss the distinctions between CMP, SMP; a kernel, a layer and an 
application.  Whoever said you don't have to be technical to manage
a technical business?  

I suggest that when things are not working very well that we should begin
to question our fundamental assumptions and return to the fundamental 
strategies which made this a great corporation in the first place.

Creative freedom of expression; investing in a good idea; the power to
cut or avoid red tape.  The open door policy; the value of QUALITY
and HONESTY.

FWIW -- I've expressed my humble opinion.

Ok, ok -- I admit that I am younger than the corporation, and was never around
when the great fundamental values described above supposedly were present.
But I joined the company shortly after reading In Search of Excellence, 
and somebody at least convinced Tom Peters that Digital had some of those 
values...  -")

RE:                     <<< Note 1530.12 by THEWAV::GASSNER >>>

>I, for one, have always worked to understand business AND technology
>in the same breath.  Why not let go all the managers who cannot clearly
>discuss the distinctions between CMP, SMP; a kernel, a layer and an 
>application.  Whoever said you don't have to be technical to manage
>a technical business?  

Because then someone might get the bright idea of trying to lay off all
the worker bees who do not understand the NAS architecture and who
do not know what its benefits for customers are. :^)

NAS == 10 * SAA
SAA == 5 * NAS

    What proportion of the employees terminated were managers?  Were there
    any of our 100+ VPs included?  What steps can we take to increase the
    number of people working, while reducing the number of people who tell
    workers WHAT to do?  If a disproportionately low number of managers    
    terminated, then the over-advice problem could increase substantially, 
    resulting in makework instead of increased productivity.
    
    

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    You basically need managers during layoff to "manager" the situation.

    Then you shoot them in the last round.

Rumor around here is that there will be a second (4th) round of involuntary 
separations in August primarily aimed at 1st and 2nd level managers. I hope
the aim is good.

Re: Terminology

Layoff also implies that if the work returns the the worker will be rehired.
This is the way it works in Union shops like GM. 

One sales rep here was planning to resign and asked personell what it would 
take to save a job. He was told he had to resign before June 21st because the
names were sent in on the 24th and after that date his resignation would only
create an empty slot.

    re .11
    
    When I started at Digital ('84) our district had a ratio of between 4
    and 5 sales reps per support person.  It was around '87 that there was
    a major push to move the ratio closer to 2 to 1.
    
    How did we manage?  Account control and planning were key.  Hard to
    respond to unplanned events with a 5 to 1 ratio.
    
    Peter Dillard

    
     Perhaps Sales can now lean on EIS PSS folks now, they ARE a viable
    resource, when available. This would promote a new personal network,
    stimulate knowledge on both sides and make all parties work together
    smarter.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike Z.

re: .19

	Gee, that sounds like how it was done before sales support came along.
Not that it was a bad setup.  However, the way NMS works is that whether sales
uses Sales Support (aka System Sales Specialists in NMS-speak) or PSS, they get
`billed' for services rendered.  System Sales Specialists are supposed to
understand the account and sales issues better than PSS.

	I agree, PSS is a very valuable resource, and they are available for
sales support help, but they are not a free resource.  I am an SSS that came
from PSS many years ago.  I still depend on the expertise of the PSS people and
plan to continue using them whenever it makes sense.  But I have to make sure
that it also makes cents.

tgc

    Gee, thanks -1!
    
    For the past 14 days I have been telling people I was Sales Support, I
    forgot that I too got a new name in NMS - Systems Support Specialists.
    
    Thanks Agian,
    Frank 
    S.S.S.