Conference 7.286::digital

In my opinion, both as a DEC employee and as a DEC manager, the way you see
it is correct, particularly with respect to the policy (4 weeks notice for
wage class 4), and with respect to it being a management problem that there
is no Plan B. I was in a situation not long ago where an individual
reporting to me was interested in relocating to a different geography. The
employee got an offer and told them when he wanted to start (longer than
4 weeks away). I supported him on his desire to stay with us for a longer
time. The hiring manager called the policy on both of us and said "If you
want the job it starts in 4 weeks - decide!". He decided and left. Your
case seems a whole lot simpler as you agree to go when the hiring manager
wants you to (within the policy). I don't see where your current manager
has a leg to stand on in trying to keep you, but expect some bad feelings
when you go, perhaps. On a more personal note, a manager who is not looking
out for the best interests of his employees above and beyond his own
needs is not much of a manager. I've said it before in this conference -
work gets done. Managers are paid to deal with resource depletions, but
that doesn't make it your problem.

-Jack

	I'd be amicable to maybe stay an extra week or two over and above
	the 4 week policy statement, but no more.. If she's caught with
	her pants down then it's really not your problem.. If there is
	bad blood, well, there is bad blood. You can ask your hiring 
	manager to document it and hope that helps at next review time.

							mike

    Re: .0
    
    I just went through a similar situation.  I went to CODII as a walk-in
    and walked out with a interview which quickly led to a job offer, which
    I accepted.  
    
    Your start date is negotiated between your new manager and your current
    manager.  It boils down to how hard your new manager wants to fight for
    you.  If the two managers cannot agree on a start date, then I was told
    that the four week policy is used.  Usually managers agree on a start
    date, which can be anything from tomorrow to six months.  But if your
    new manager wants to play hard ball you can start in four weeks, but
    you will burn lots of bridges behind you if you follow this route.
    
    In my case, I am currently project leader on a new VAX chip set under
    development at Hudson.  I knew that my current group would not want me
    to go in four weeks and made that clear in the interview process.  My
    new manager is willing to wait (bless her soul!) so I will be in my
    current job until the end of June.
    
    John

    I personally witnessed (but did not experience) a particularily
    ugly transfer battle.  The person who was getting the transfer
    was a friend who kept me informed of all the details, and I feel
    I know the actual truth about what happened.  I have the following
    thoughts:
    (1) The four-week clock starts the moment you accept the offer.
    That is, the "old manager" cannot play the game of delaying
    negotiations to keep you indefinitely.  If there has not been
    agreement on the actual transfer date by the end of the four-weeks
    they you can start the new job right then.  In the transfer battle
    that I witnessed corporate personel acted in the employee's best
    interests and ordered the employee to report to the new cost center,
    and further ordered the employee to not discuss the issue with the
    "old manager".  Note that the "new manager" insisted on playing by
    the rules, and played hardball, otherwise it's not clear what would
    have happened.
    (2) The employee involved in this wisely kept detached from the
    situation and avoided getting directly involved.  The employee's
    position was always "You two managers negotiate and I'll go along
    with whatever you decide."  To the best of my knowledge my friend
    did not directly enter into the transfer date negotiations.  This
    saved my friend an immense amount of personal grief.
    (3) Give your new manager all the information s/he needs to negotiate
    the transfer date.  In the battle I witnessed there was excellent
    communication between my friend and the new manager.  The new manager
    told my friend what the "old manager" was claiming, and my friend
    told the new manager the truth of the situation.
    
    Good luck

    .3 and .4 have given you some excellent advice. 
    
    As a manager, I would expect the employee to place this burden on me to
    resolve. I've been on both ends of the stick on this one (as Hiring
    Manager who is negotiating with someone that doesn't want to let their
    employee go ... and 
    
    Current Manager who has a desparate need to keep someone because
    they're "critical", thus forcing me to negotiate with someone who wants
    this employee to start a new job ASAP).
    
    In all cases, my position was to simply state my business need for
    either getting or keeping the employee (depending on which end of the
    stick I had) and emphasizing my desire to "be flexible" and listen to
    the other person's needs.
    
    In every single situation, I've been able to work with the other
    manager to our mutual satisfaction. I have never had to resort to the
    "tough luck, policy says 4 weeks" route. (Although another manager who
    was trying to hire one of my people did present this argument rather
    early on in the negotiations ... we were able to get the converstation
    back to "business needs" and "what's fair" and "being flexible" without
    a lot of effort.
    
    
    What I've found to be TOTALLY unacceptable is: As the potential hiring
    manager, the employee is threatened by his/her outgoing cost center ...
    "leave the group and you can kiss that (nice increase in the salary
    plan) good bye." I think managers that pull that crap should be fired.
    If the employee worked for and deserves the increase, let them have it. 
    
    Any employee will be totally loyal to any group that deserves his or
    her loyalty and can provide career advancement. 
    
    /se
    

    Has personnel been informed of the situation?  They should be. 
    According to what I have read, I believe personnel would be on your
    side.  
    
    One more thing....I think any manager who says 'this project is more
    important than your family'  should be retired to the farm for
    individual contributors.......or placed in a straight jacket.
    
    Gil (Who has 4 kiddo's and a wife and appreciates the importance of
    family vs job.)
    

I assume this 4 week transfer period is an official policy in the orange book.
Could someone point to the location of it?

Steve  

>       <<< Note 1045.8 by NCDEL::KERNS "Only 3 of the 4 samurai left" >>>
>                      -< Hopefully this won't be Deja Vu >-
>
>I assume this 4 week transfer period is an official policy in the orange book.
>Could someone point to the location of it?

from VTX ORANGEBOOK

 Date of Transfer

 In most circumstances the transfer date should be no longer than
 two weeks from job acceptance for non-exempt employees and four
 weeks for exempt employees, unless all parties agree.