Conference 7.286::digital

    A1: Something doesn't have to be a US product to have a registered
    trademark. Also trademarks in unrelated fields can be pretty close
    to, if not completely, identical. For example, Apple is a trademark
    of both Apple Computer and Apple Records. One is in computers and the
    other is in recording. The British VAX vacuum has been a product a
    long time in the UK. In fact the "joke" 'nothing sucks like a VAX'
    has been used in actual advertising in the UK for some time.

    A2: 4-in-1 is very dissimilar from ALL-IN-1. Of course both phrases
    have been used in advertising for years by a variety of products.
    Context and what product is being discussed are taken into account.

    A3: Why wouldn't they be allowed to advertise this way? No laws are
    being broken. Vacuum cleaners and computers are not all that often
    confused. It's not near as bad as all those people selling digital
    watches is it?

    				Alfred

    Jeff,
    
    Trademarks are routinely registered in any country where you MIGHT want
    to do business.  There are several companies (one on the isle of
    Jersey, if memory serves) that will undertake to maintain world-wide
    trademark registration for clients.  They monitor renewal dates, fees
    and changing laws and bill you for fees paid plus a servicce charge
    based on the number of trademarks and the number of ountries in which
    they are registered.
    
    -dave

	
	re: Apple trademark

	  I know that Apple Records was suing Apple Computer over
	thsi very thing - can't recall how it turned out, if I ever
	knew.

	Roy

	There was a sort of agreement with Apple Computer and Apple Records
	that Apple Computer stay out of the music business. The reason for
	the suit is that Apple Records claims that the latest generation
	of Apples has enough "sound" ability that they can be concidered
	musical instriments and therefor are coming into the music business
	that Apple Records is in.

	So if VAX Vacuums had built in calculators or VAX computers cleaned
	floors things might get tricky. :-)

			Alfred

    VAX vacuum cleaners registered their trademark first. It's my
    understanding that we use it "by permission" in the UK.
    
    And yes, "Nothing sucks like a VAX" was a real advertising line.
    
    ���

I think .4 has it right. There has to be the possibility of confusion between
uses of the name 'VAX' before it becomes a problem.

There are other examples of multiple companies using the same name for very
different products. I'm sure I can find lots of stores selling different kinds
of Apple products :-)

re: Apple vs Apple
The version I heard (probably on NPR) was that it was related to the use of a
multicolored apple logo and an apparent agreement on the part of Apple (the
computer co) to stay out of the music co.  Same basic idea though.

As long as we don't make VAX systems that could be mistaken for vacuum cleaners,
it shouldn't be a problem. Remember the DECsystem-2020, 'the mainframe no larger
than a domestic refrigerator', as the slogan had it. It also looked like a
'fridge. Good thing noone makes DECsystem-2020 brand refrigerators....

gary

.1>                  Vacuum cleaners and computers are not all that often
.1>    confused. 
    
    Alfred, I assume you do not work in marketing?   ;-)
    
    

    When this discussion comes around, as it has many times over the years
    (but not so often as in the past month), I am reminded of "Cadillac"
    brand dog food.
    
    				Steve

Many years ago, I heard that "DEC" was trademarked by "Dairy Equipment
Cooperative" in Iowa.

M.

    re.9
   > Many years ago, I heard that "DEC" was trademarked by "Dairy Equipment
   > Cooperative" in Iowa

    Thats udderly ridiculous ;-)
    
    Barry

	RE: all

	Ckeck note 917 in ASIMOV::MARKETING 

	To summarize:  VAX is trademark for Vacuum in UK.  DEC has
	agreement (in UK) since our VAX is not a "competing" product.

	Also some interesting info on who owns ALL-IN-1 vs ALL-IN-ONE and
	why getting the trademarked names correct in documents is so
	blasted important.

later...
 jim

    < Note 868.6 by STAR::HUGHES >
>re: Apple vs Apple
>The version I heard (probably on NPR) was that it was related to the use of a
>multicolored apple logo and an apparent agreement on the part of Apple (the
>computer co) to stay out of the music co.  
    
    The multicolored Apple logo is fine with Apple, the Beatles' music
    co.  The recent suit arose because Apple Computer developed some
    music synthesizer boards for the MAC, allegedly violating the long-
    held agreement that Apple Computer would not go into the music biz.
    
    karl

    re ALL-IN-1 vs ALL-IN-ONE
    
    I was told several years ago that "ALL-IN-ONE" is a popular brand of
    diapers in the UK.  Not *necessarily* a competing product with some
    software of a similar name...
    
    Jon

    we don't have "diapers" in the UK...

re: .14

Well, here in the States, we don't have "nappies"...

Ray

        Since the questions in .0 have been answered, and since
        the discussion has moved well away from "the Digital way
        of working", I don't think there should be any further
        replies to this topic.
        

Re .0:

The Sears in Nashua's Pheasant Lane Mall was visited on Friday.  The vacuum
cleaner salesman there had only seen a reference to the VAX in some signage
recently.  He said that they aren't [fully?] prepared to sell name-brands yet
(a massive change to Sears' way of doing business which readers are probably
aware of), and he has to attend product familiarization classes before he'll be
prepared to begin selling them sometime in mid-September.

I assume that there will be other brands sold there; otherwise you might say
that he'd be attending a sort of a "VAX University".  It is nice to know that
Sears takes sales training at least as seriously Digital.
				/AHM

    Re: .previous
    
    For the record, the advertising slogan was:
    
    "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux"
    
    Yes, it was for a vacuum cleaner (or a "hoover" as they are often
    called in the UK!)
    
    The derivation to  "... like a VAX" I have only ever seen in Notable
    Persons personal name ........ but if you say it often enough .....

    Maybe if we can OEM that VAX vacuum cleaner, we could then give 1 away
    for every VAX (maybe VAX 6000 and above), for the cleaning the computer
    room floor, and the insides of printers,... ;?)