Conference 7.286::digital

    re .0;
    
    doesn't it say a lot for the airline security that they didn't know
    who was sitting in that seat?
    
    Peter.
    

    I often move about aircraft to get a better seat.
    
    I'm more interested in employees flying Business Class rather than
    `standard', what happened to the drive to cut expenses?
    
    Emm

RE: .2

	First, just because you're in Business Class doesn't mean you're on 
business.  Dillep never said what his purpose on the trip was.  People take 
vacations, you know!

	Secondly, if international travel is still monitored by VP's, I'm sure 
his appearance over there was very important to SOMEONE high up, and the 
rigors of one of these trips demands at LEAST Business Class. I would bet he 
was on that plane 14 hours or more, and "losing" time as he flew east!

	Finally, any bets that the owner of the document will respond HERE? :>)

    The corporate P&P states that flights of over five hours in duration
    require business class.
    
    David

    
    
    
    RE - .2 "move to cut expenses"
    
    How many times have you rented a car and it was supposed to be one
    of those super economy micromets or whatever and you get to the
    agency counter and they say, "we're sorry, but we are forced to
    let you have an Olds Cutlass because we are temporarily out of stock"
    
    Same thing happens with airlines when they overbook economy or what
    ever class it happens to be this week. They will bump upward if there
    is room on the plane. 
    
    RE - .1 what security?
    
    I saw a cartoon that seems pretty indicative of airport security.
    It shows a rather scruffy looking guy in need of a shave with a
    cigarette in his mouth. He is dressed in fatigues and combat 
    boots with grenades, hand guns and knives in the belt, a large 
    automatic rifle on the shoulder and a couple of bandoleers of 
    ammo heading for a boarding gate.
    
    The security guard is telling him he can't smoke on the plane.

    re: .2
    
    Know the policy!
    
    PP&P 5.11
    
    - Domestic First Class Night Coach is acceptable on "red eye" flights
      if the price is equal to or less than Day Economy.
    
    - First Class is acceptable if the employee has a physical problem
      that would make them extremely uncomfortable in Economy and it is
      approved in advance by the employee's manager.
    
    - If the employee is travelling with a customer who is flying First
      Class or Business Class the employee may also.
    
    - If the employee is restricted to one flight and Economy is not
      available the employee may fly First or Business Class.
    
    * International Business Class is authorized for flights of five
      hours or more and is acceptable for continuing flights if the routing
      and stopover privileges produce an equal or lower priced ticket
      then Standard Economy.
    
    - Domestic Business Class is acceptable when it represents the lowest
      available airfare for the dates and times requested.
    
    In short, Business class is OK for international legs of five hours
    flight time or more.
    
    Al
    
    
    

>    In short, Business class is OK for international legs of five hours
>    flight time or more.

Depends on the cost center; DEC employees flying on Standards business are not
authorized business class.

I also won't normally authorize myself business class across the Atlantic; I
can't see spending $2400 when $400 would do, if the trip is planned far enough
in advance.  You can even blow away the $400 and pay the full $1400 if plans
change and not waste the full $2000.

But I'm smaller than most people and am not as uncomfortable in coach.

/john

    Returning to the topic...
    
    If you tell us what's on the cover (topic, author or authoring group),
    I'll bet someone can claim it pretty quickly.  I'm not being curious,
    I'm just trying to be helpful 8^)

RE: < Note 730.8 by DELNI::JONG "Steve Jong/NaC Pubs" >
                            -< So what's it about? >-

It is a preliminary draft of the Architecture Document for  an unnannounced 
software product with a 4 letter acronymn. It appears that it was written with
ultimate distribution outside the company.

Dileep

        The security issue does bring up another thing related to travel.
        I was on the way back home the other day. 2-3 hour flight. Trying
        to do some work. A document slipped from my lap to the floor. It
        wasn't until the plane had landed and emptied that I could reach
        under the seat to pick it up. Why is it that aircraft design
        engineers assume everyone is a 5ft 100lb weakling....
        
        q
        

    Hi, "q" - I have the same problem, being nearly six feet tall - the
    "flying sardine can" method of airplane design (at least in the
    "business class" section - you all know I am far too cheap to pay extra
    to fly on the same plane but get a bigger chair, right?) allows them to
    fit one more row of seats in then they would otherwise.  It's just a
    good thing I am not claustrophobic, but it is a real drag after the
    first couple of hours to be trying to sit in a seat where my knees are
    jammed into the back of the seat in front of me.  But you have to
    travel *somehow*, right?

    Don't shoot the designers. Most (all?) current airliners have
    adjustable seat pitch (the spacing between seats) and it is the airline
    that decides the actual spacing when they purchase or reconfigure the
    plane. When I travelled more frequently, I would ask for seat diagrams
    etc and, if a choice were available, select flights on that basis (it
    also helps you avoid seats near the above wing exits, as they usually
    have even less leg room).
    
    gary

    very interesting that only 2 of the 12 replies deal with the subject-
    security of documents!
    
    On my last flight I found a very interesting report on the perceived
    positioning of automobile manufacturers in the marketplace in the
    seatpocket in front of me.  That study, from JD Power, cost someones
    company a lot of money!
    
    Have also heard a lot of interesting conversations in seats around
    me.  Nice of people to have luggage tags with company logos or business
    cards or to carry binders with the company name boldly imprinted.
    
    What was the WW-II expressions-

    	LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS
    
    Now back to the rathole-
    
    While the company policies on classes of flights, rental cars, etc.
    have been quoted there is nothing that says that the individual:
    
    	cannot pay for an upgrade him/herself
    
    	cannot use a frequent flyer upgrade
    
    	cannot use a rental car upgrade certificate
    
    Do not be so quick to judge and jump on someones class of service
    if you don't know the facts.  For example, Continental offers Y-OnePass
    that is a first class seat for a coach fare.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I wonder if Dileep ever found the person who dropped the document.
    My first guess would have been somebody flying from Seoul (or maybe
    by way of Seoul) to Greater Maynard.  For a flight like that, I'm
    glad that company policy provides for Business Class travel for
    long flights.  Five hours is peanuts when your journey takes something
    like twenty-four hours and thirteen time zones.
    
    Dropping important business papers is a definite risk with people
    who take their business with them into Business Class.  I guess
    many people find it necessary to use their time that way.  So far
    I have done very little of it, but maybe next time I'd think twice
    before I take something out of my attach� case.
    
    --Simon
    

RE: < Note 730.14 by HANZI::SIMONSZETO "Simon Szeto @HGO, Hongkong" >

No, I did not find the "owner". I even tried asking Corporate Travel, but
they did not know who was on that flight. I returned the document to the 
project leader for the project.

I am going back to Japan later this month. Hope I don't find something equally 
interesting again. 

RE: Business Class travel

Business Class fare ($2585 round trip) is only $300 more than regular coach.
Supersaver coach with 2-week advance purchase is only $1300. The flight from
Boston to SFO is almost 7 hours; SFO to Tokyo is almost 12 hours. I flew to
Japan 5 years ago in coach. With a full plane it was no fun. Business class was
a lot better. 

I used to fly coach even though the policy allowed business; but not anymore.
If I put my body through a 1 week trip to Japan with 4 days of work, I don't 
feel guilty about travelling in comfort. Many companies, including the U.S. 
Govt, allow business Class travel on these long flights. There were hardly any 
unoccupied seats on my flights.

Dileep

    I recently had the "pleasure" of flying a red-eye back from SFO
    to CVG (San Francisco to Cincinnati) because I had a 6:00 pm (PST)
    meeting in SFO and a 7:30 am (EST) meeting the next day at CVG.
    I know, I know; I'll never do that again.  Anyway, I flew coach
    and was a sight to behold at the end of the second day.  If I do
    this again (????) I will fly First Class so I at least look and
    feel half good.  I think Dileep in -.1 has the right idea.
    
    ......... Suchindran

        Bear in mind, that Travel is an acceptable cost of doing business,
        that would come off digital's pre tax expenses. So by flying
        cheaper, you are just increasing DEC's tax bill....
        
        q
        

...no one is in the 100% tax bracket......yet....

    A number of our client's companies have interesting travel policies:
    
    	fly during working hours - coach
    
    	fly on personal time - business or first class
    
    Barry_who_usually_flies_after_work_to_not_lose_a_day_each_way
    

    Let me make clear that I've nothing against people flying business
    class. If that's the rule(s) that's fine.
    But I think, some clarification may be required.
    - Expensive travel reducing DIGITAL's tax bill
      Cobblers. It reduces the ammount of $$s available to pay wage
      increments and fund R&D.
    - Benefits of Business class on long-haul flights. (Jet-lag?)
      Possibly valid on West->East flights. However, if _I_ were to
      undertake such a journey (in either direction) I wouldn't presume
      that the "benefits" of Business class obviated a good nights sleep
      at the other end prior to the meeting(s). Presumably DIGITAL
      personnel don't fly log-haul for `the day'. 
      Many companies (this from memory, no references available) _insist_
      that personnel flying long-haul arrive a day before their meetings 
      to get over any `lag' problems.
      The article I saw this in (and it wasn't a plug for hotel chain 8^) 
      made no mention of the flight class. 
      
      All 'n' all though, I *like* the idea of "business" or "first-class"
      travel. Hmm, now when I fly the atlantic.....
      Concorde anyone? Or does the P&P say "...subsonic only". *8^)
    
      M 

    
      �    Concorde anyone? Or does the P&P say "...subsonic only". *8^)
       
    It doesn't have to: it says "Business Class", and "Concorde Class"
    is a sort of super first class. However I am sure that if you were
    escorting a customer who insisted on flying Concorde you'd have
    no problem "hitching a ride".
    
    Getting a decent nights sleep the night before isn't always possible:
    many international destinations have only one flight a day. Example
    Boston to Heathrow offers several options, but all take off at
    approximately the same time in the evening arriving at breakfast
    time in London. Either you take a full day off (sightseeing?) before
    getting your sleep, or you sleep on the plane, which more or less
    requires the extra leg room you get with business class.
    
    On several occasions I have made this trip business class and got
    straight off the plane and driven 200 miles to my destination. On
    occasions when I flew coach class I have always been so tired as
    to have to go to sleep on arrival, and spend an expensive (~�120
    or about $200) day in an airport hotel before completing my journey.
    
    I guess it all depends where you want to spend your company's money,
    and never forget that time is money...
    
    /. Ian .\

        There is a difference between Trans U.S.A. and transatlantic to
        the 30 plus hours in a plane that one spends going from sydney to
        Boston.
        
        q
        

    I've had better luck with East-Coast-to-East-Coast (Asia<-->N. America)
    than with red-eyes trans-NA or trans-Atlantic.  Being able to get a
    night's sleep after arrival is good compensation for the 11- to 12-hour
    jet lag.  A full day's work the next day hasn't been a problem. 
    Ironically, in my experience the second day is worse than the first day
    after arrival as far as jet lag is concerned.  Different people react
    to jet lag differently, of course.
    
    --Simon
    

    I'm not real good at sleeping in an airplane seat either, but what
    bothers me more than being scheduled for a business trip on the
    "red-eye" is being told that DEC won't pay for an extra night in a
    hotel so that I have to leave the conference early the last day in
    order to catch the last flight back to Boston (and risk getting to
    spend a night in some other hotel anyhow if the plane connections don't
    match up due to delays, since I'm on the last plane!).  I don't know
    what happens if the paper I'm presenting is scheduled for late
    afternoon of the last day, but, from the number of both DEC and non-DEC
    people leaving early, that is a real poor time to have to do your
    presentation because half of the participants have already flown home,
    so DEC isn't the only company with this cheap policy!

    re: .24
    
    I've always found my cost center to be pretty flexible with respect to
    scheduling the return trip.  A few years ago I went to DECUS in San
    Diego.  Because I couldn't get a return flight to Manchester, NH, on
    Friday after the last session, I got to stay until Monday.
    
    (This was before there were several airlines serving Manchester.  If I
    remember correctly, there was only one flight a day, from Boston.)
        John Sauter

RE: < Note 730.24 by CADSYS::RICHARDSON >

>    I'm not real good at sleeping in an airplane seat either, but what
>    bothers me more than being scheduled for a business trip on the
>    "red-eye" is being told that DEC won't pay for an extra night in a
>    hotel so that I have to leave the conference early the last day in
>    order to catch the last flight back to Boston (and risk getting to

You must have a very strange manager. I am surprised that they even sent you to
the conference. I have never been forced to fly the red eye. I often do it by 
choice because I hate to waste a whole day on an airplane. Sometimes I do it 
because I have an important meeting to get to.

Dileep