Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I don't know how to *break* this to you, but for some strange reason
    the eggs in New England are brown.  Yes, that's right, brown eggs.
    I've always been rather suspicious of brown eggs myself.  White eggs
    are available, and in some supermarkets they are *cheaper* than brown
    ones.  Who in their right mind would pay more for BROWN eggs?  And
    what's more useless at Easter time than brown eggs?  I mean how do you
    dye a brown egg yellow?
    
    -Mary

        What on earth do the natives see in Sen. Kennedy?
        
        Dan

    a broken-down parody of the myth that was his brother, John....
    
    imho,
    Marge

    Mike, you'll have to watch out for those frost heaves signs....and also
    the thickly settled signs, but they're always up....  you'll probably
    arrive in time for mud season, followed by black fly season, then three
    weeks of summer and the mosquitos which accompany it, if the spring is
    wet...by August, you'll be thinking snow. 
    
    welcome to New England...I wouldn't trade it for anywhere else!
    
    Grins

    Mary
    
    The commonest egg laying hen here in New England is the Rhode island
    red, wich natuarlly lays brown eggs.
    
    White eggs are laid by leghorns.
    
    In general brown eggs are local eggs around here and are fresher.
    ]
    At Easter the stores sell 'shrink wraps' to color brown eggs
    or import white ones.
    
    We used to raise hens and the easiest type to buy wereRhodies.
    
    For easter I'd save my duck eggsand we'd color them.
    
    Bonnie

    
    I just read something about brown eggs, must've been in the Parade from
    yesterday's newspaper.  Being from NE, I do like the look of brown eggs
    better and will always buy brown eggs over white even though I believe
    what I've read that says there's no difference in nutritional value. 
    One thing I remember from the little article I read is that the brown
    shells are thicker than the white shells and this prevents
    <something-or-other> from happening to the egg.
    
    Speaking of Easter eggs, when I was a kid, we'd dye up a bunch of eggs
    and then put them in a basket and those eggs would sit in the basket
    on a table, unrefrigerated, to be snacked on whenever the desire hit, 
    for oh, maybe a week, before the last egg was gone.  We never got sick
    but now I'd never leave a basket of eggs out of the fridge for a week!
    
    CQ

    Thanks, Marge.  :-)  Now what's this about black flies?  You mean you
    have *insects* out there?  Any more talk like that, and I'll be staying
    put, right here in the High Country!  :-)

    I am looking forward to the beautiful fall foliage, rich history, great
    radio stations, and excellent pizza that Massachusetts appears to
    offer.  But the other side of the coin is that I'll be giving up the
    mountains, a wonderfully mild climate, and much cheaper rents; so talk
    of black flies is not the sort of thing I want to hear.  I need
    *encouragement*!  :-) :-)

    -- Mike

    -d, don't forget the mulled cider.  I was introduced to that for the
    first time in my life when I came out to New England last December.  I
    have to admit, it was damn good.
    
    -- Mike

	I've always wondered why they call soda "tonic."

	And I always get frappes and shakes confused. 


	Also, is it just me, or are there fewer malls in NE than in 
	the rest of the country?  ("real malls" to me being on the 
	scale of Pheasant Lane and Burlington, the only two I know 
	of in the area)  There seems to be a preference for going to 
	lots of little shops, fine if they are in walking distance of
	one another, but otherwise a real pain.



	-Andy

    new england is a great place to live, and I've tried other places. 
    They just don't feel comfortable!  Here we have four real seasons, and
    (contrary to a previous posting) relatively few blackflies - a 3-wk
    season - and none in the city.  Tip: the over-the-counter
    hydrocortisone cream, applied as soon as possible, surpresses the local
    allergic reaction to blackfly bites (also mosquito).  This is
    tried-and-true, it worked when Adam got _39_ blackfly bites on his back
    while running through the sprinkler. (I counted while applying the
    lotion.)
    
    In new england, we make clam chowder right.  Lobsters are fresh.  And
    real maple syrup!  (sigh, it's so expensive tho.)
    
    We newenglanders have the reputation for being cold and unfriendly.  So
    many people, from so many places, have said this to me, that I believe
    we come across that way.  Of course, we're not really cold or
    unfriendly, but we are reserved in manner, at least in public.  Folks
    generally don't speak to strangers in the supermarket.  They look at me
    strange when I do, but usually warm up ok.
    
    What does Mass see in Ted Kennedy?  a senator with LOTS of seniority. 
    This is a Good Thing for the state.  I think he should be a senator for
    a long time.  (xlate: I wouldn't vote for him for Prez.)  Mass also has
    Barney Frank, and Ed King: the smartest and the kludgiest, all in one
    place (personal opinion alert).
    
    Last but blissfully not least: New England has Vermont in it.

    Re .11  I agree with you about clam chowder.  At least you don't have
    to buy New England clam chowder in a can like in the West.  Just go
    to nearest seafood restaurant and order it fresh.  Also, Lobsters look
    like lobsters not crawfish like in the south.

    re .11 Sara, it's not chowder, it's chowdah. That's a pre-req for
    living heah Mike. No lettah "R" at the end of ouah wahds and sometimes
    in the middle too. The fatha Noath you go, the moah it shows. :-)
    
    Also, you have to have an addiction to lobstahs and steamahs (clams) to
    live heah.
    
    Phil, who as he gets oldah tries to use his New England accent moah.

As a transplanted Southerner, I had trouble getting used to calling 
soda pop,soft drinks, coke   "tonic".  To me  "tonic" is medicine or something
that goes in "Gin and Tonic".

The worst is getting used to the way they drive.  Watch out for  U turns in the
middle of busy streets and especially for idiots backing up on the expressways
after they miss their exit.

I love New England and have no plans to return.

One of the many things that I find very peculiar about New England is the
way they pave the roads around things. 

Now given the local love for trees (which I share) I can understand paving
around part of a big tree, so that when a road was widened they didn't have
to cut down the tree.  I can see that narrowing the road a bit is worth it
to save the tree.

But telephone poles???

I have seen (on more than one occasion) a telephone pole planted in the
street, paved all the way around it, with the curb a short distance away.

Never in the mid-west!

John (a mid-west transplant, taking root here)

    When asking directions, beware of anyone saying "just down the road
    a piece".  Could be anywhere from 10 feet to 10 miles!!
    
    Nothing like fresh Atlantic fish.  As much as I hate the cold weather,
    I'm a New Englander, born and bred and probably won't live anywhere
    else.  It would be too boring.
    
    Linda
    

    Last time he visited I made SURE to have him driven over some frost
    heaves just so he'd understand that you go SLOWLY when they're around
    and you want something left of your suspension when you get home.
    
    There's also the following:
    
    soda= tonic, pop
    frappe/shake (ask , everyone has different definitions)
    sub=(hoagie,hero, etc)
    water fountain = bubbler
    
    New England, well, actually Massachusetts, has STRANGE intersections
    which will have THE RED LIGHT telling you to stop all other actions
    (cease and desist all movement), and at the SAME TIME, it'll have a
    green arrow telling you it's okay to go THAT way, but not any other
    way.  
    
    We're probably the only place who still builds rotaries (circles of
    death, traffic circles, roller derby places for cars), and even though
    THEORETICALLY the people IN the rotary have the right of way, don't
    count on anyon letting you go.  
    
    People tend not to use their blinkers.  
    
    Depending on where you are, people may or may not smile at you while
    you're walking down the street.  Often they may avoid looking you in
    the face depending on what part of the city/town you're in.  
    
    -Jody
    

    re .8:
    
    ah, Mike, doncha know I just want to keep this bit 'o heaven to meself?
    
    The fact that you can actually go to town meeting and have your vote
    mean something is wonderful.  Of course, town meeting comes right at
    mud season, so there's a price to pay :^)   Quite a few DECies are
    involved in school boards, as town moderators, in campaigns, etc.  This
    is grass roots.
    
    I'd heard all the worries, before I arrived, about how cold New
    Englanders are.  Actually, I found the locals to be very sincere in
    their friendship, not empty glad-handers.  Still, it's better to do a
    lot of listening before talking...change comes slowly and only after a
    lot of consideration.  Rabble rousers need not apply.
    
    And, for gawdsake, learn to pronounce "aunt" and "scallops"! :^)
    
    welcome,
    Marge
    
    

    Now, there, John, thet telephone pole was there first and by golly
    we're gonna let it stay there, that's squatter's rights.
    
    Mike, Welcome to New England.  You'll find that we have four seasons
    here designed 'specially for you forinners.  We got black fly season
    which comes 'bout May first an' stays 'bout a month.  Then we got
    June Bug season which is kinna hard to miss.  Then we got the real
    thing, fly season which lasts till the weather gets cold again.
    Then we got snow flies.  Oh, an' we got skeeters most o' the time.
    
    I think it's great to have Senator Kennedy reelected by Massachusetts
    all the time.  Thank Gawd, I'm in Nieuw Hayumpshire.
    
    Just watch out for the traffic laws.  Like (in MA) you're allowed to
    open your car door without looking.  And you can run a stop sign
    if you find the right loophole.  Arghh...  It's like a pinball game.
    
    ed

    I wouldn't trade New England for the world!  (If that makes any
    difference.)   (*8
    
    
    E Grace

    .13, Phil -- you gotta know that in Western Mass, where I grew up, we
    DO say our 'r's.  Heck, sometimes we put in extras, as in the word
    "idear", as in, "hey! I've got an idear!"
    
    In Vermont the people also say "paRk the caR".  But a highway is "the
    interstate" even though there are now 2 interstates in Vt (91 & 89).
    
    Sara
    

    ... could I have grown up as a Jewish Puritan?
    
    :-) :-) :-) 
    
    Sara

    I moved to Boston from Virginia in 1983, and I've been hearing ever
    since that "this winter is milder than usual."  Either global 
    warming really kicked in, or the local idea of a "usual" winter is
    the Blizzard of 1978, when people were stranded on Route 128 during
    rush hour and had to be rescued by snowmobile!  It has occurred
    to me that New Englanders LIKE talking about bad weather, not so 
    much because they like to complain, but rather as a form of
    bragging - I suspect they're secretly proud of the toughness it takes to
    manage in any conditions.    
    
    Everything that you have heard about the drivers is true: I've had
    to learn to laugh at it all.  One thing that no one mentioned
    is that if you actually do use a signal to change lanes on a highway,
    the driver in the other lane will speed up, rather than letting you
    in.  Folks in general are more direct up here -- it's refreshing in
    communication, but in driving this sometimes translates as rudeness.
      
    I love it here - there's great variety in landscape and people ...
    (Boston's ethnic diversity has broadened my taste in music and food.)
    And it's on such a manageable scale -- New England states (except for
    Maine) are small.  
    
    -- Jane

    in re ed
    
    you left out a few seasons:
    
    first is ants, then black flies ;-)
    and June bugs are perfectly harmless large beetles so they are
    no problem
    but after black flies are mosquitos and deerflies
    and in late summer if you have pets, there are fleas
    and in the late summer and early fall, wasps and hornets!
    
    but this is only for us country folk..
    
    and in re -d
    
    we live about a mile and a half from the NH border in Mass... one
    of our common jokes is derived from the second of the two stories
    you told...
    
    ie. we are glad we don't live in NH because the winters are so
    much colder there!
    
    Bonnie

    
    
    Rotaries
    
    Mosquitos
    
    It frustrates me to NO end that I can't just drive straight to get 
    someplace...the roads meander, and sometimes I even have to drive past
    a place then cut back to get to it!  (the fastest way is not
    necessarily the shortest way).
    
    Just to name a few...
    
    k
    
    

    I am curious about one New England custom.
    
    If you can drink cold pop (er, I mean "tonic") in the winter, then why
    can't you drink cold ice tea in the winter?????????????
    
    -- Mike

    
    
    Ohhhh!  Thank you for reminding me, Mike!
    
    
    Bring your tea bags with you, New Englanders have NO concept of iced
    tea in the winters.  I've had waitrons look at me MORTIFIED when I
    asked if they served it.
    
    kath

Winter may be pretty to look at here in New England but, wait until spring
comes!  It's the best.  I have already started looking forward to daffs and
crocs.  Who could leave out PEEPERS!!!  A sure sign that the ice has melted
and it will soon be warm enough to leave coats behind.

Definitely two of the best things in New England are the ocean and the 
wonderful seafood.  We have the best lobster in the world.  You have got to
schedule a New England Clambake when you go to the ocean.  We have beaches
but, don't go in the water until August you'll turn blue.

Well, wood burning stoves do make February pretty comfy here.

Heheheheh,
Mahther

    Sara, -d, and others. I forgot about the moving around of "R"'s. As in
    Tater, (potato) tomater (tomato) and squarsh (squash). I do tend to
    save up all my "R"'s and give them away as cheap Christmas presents.
    
    Regarding interstates. The closest one to you is "the interstate".
    Doesn't matter how many are in the state or even if there are close by
    ones in the next state. Also, route numbers can be confusing from one
    state to the next. Case in point. Routes 3,3A,93, and the F.E. Everett
    turnpike. In Mass. 3 runs from the NH line down through Lowell to 128
    in Burlington. 93 runs from the NH line down through Lawrence to 128
    somewhere North of Burlington. I'm not sure which town. 3A is what
    people in NH call 3. The F.E. Everett turnpike is what people in Mass
    call 3 until you get to Manchester where it merges with and is called
    93 which continues on up to the mountains. In the meantime 3 continues
    on up to the Canadian (a wonderful ride to take) border. 3A is an old
    back road which basically runs parallel to 3. If this is confusing
    Mike, don't worry. It was meant to be. :-). That is our roads. 
    
    Phil

    
    	I'm confused.....the only people here in NE that I've heard
    	call soda either pop or tonic are those who weren't born
    	and bred here!  I grew up in western MA and everyone I know
    	calls soda, soda.  Bonnie R, do they call it pop or soda where
    	you are?  In Gardner (pronounce Gahdnah) it was always soda!
    
    	When driving in NH, don't expect drivers to merge into traffic
    	while coming onto the highway....they do one of two things...
    	1. Stop or 2. Drive full speed into the traffic.  I am a 
    	new NH resident having come from MA....I prefer NH...
    
    	Welcome to NE!
    
    	JJ
    

    JJ
    
    Do you mean me or the other Bonnie R? ;-)
    
    I spent 10 years in northern va tho I'm from Mass originally
    so I'm no expert, but I call coke, gingerale, tonic water, etc
    soda.
    
    Bonnie

Oh yes, pronunciations - Worcester is said Wista in this state not Warchester.

M.

    I *always* drink tonic, and I was born here.
    
    and at least our town borders actually do! (border)
    
    
    E Grace

    	Well, you think NE has strange customs around Interstates...
    
    	When I last lived in Hawaii, the main freeway was called the H-1,
    	Interstate.
    
    	I could just imagine the conversation with the folks who give states
    	Federal money for highways:
    
    	"Well, we give this money to be used on freeways that go from one
    	state to another, and you don't have one."
    
    	"We'd have one if the next state wasn't so far away.  We had no
    	control over where they put California, though."
    
    	"Ok, well, just call it the Interstate, and that'll be fine."

    an .32, shows how little he knows.  Everyone up here in Gawd's Country
    knows that 128 is really Mammoth Rd which runs from Manchester down
    to Lowell.  And those Massfolks only think they know where Rt 3 is.
    Why, I was up in Merrimack when a Massfolk (sorry can't use the real
    word here) asks me "How do I get back onto Rt 3?  I told him, "You're
    on it."  Then he asks, "How do I get to that road over there?" So I
    told him that too, damm forinner.
    
    And if you're trying to figure out where you are, you know, looking for
    street signs, forget it.  If you don't know where you are you, don't
    belong there anyway.
    
    And re: a few back, there are 3 interstates in Vt ever since 93 got
    finished.
    
    Then there's teh one about the Old Vermonter who, when asked "Does
    it matter which road I take to get to Burlington," replied "Not to me."
    
    ed

    Thirty-six replies and no one's yet mentioned ice cream!
    
    nla
    
    p.s.  I believe "tonic" is endemic to eastern Massachusetts.
    

    I'm transplanted to Massachusetts from Virginia and I did have to make
    a few adjustments.  I arrived here in December of 1977 in time for the
    blizzard of '78.  I was thrilled at all that snow, but subsequent
    winters have been a disappointment in the snow department.

    Yes, Mike, here in New England the towns touch.  They do have counties
    but they don't use 'em very much.

    The Catholic Church - very big here.  Separation of church and state is
    blurred.  Cardinal Law can be seen mostly rubbing shoulders with
    politicians and Massachusetts had a representative to Congress who was
    also a Catholic priest.  Also, I thought I left Blue Laws behind me in
    the South, but that has changed a bit since I've been here.

    Coffee ice cream - not particularly popular in other regions.  Here
    coffee goes without saying, like choclate and vanilla. McDonald's even
    sells coffee milkshakes here.  Of course McDonald's did take some flak
    a few years back when it was discovered that they were using *white*
    eggs in their Egg McMuffins.

    One Jody left out - grinders - can you guess what they are?

    You can't order Dr Pepper in a restaurant here.  This was a tough one
    for me to get used to.  In fact I was in Stah Mahket this weekend and
    they didn't even have it there.  I *love* Dr Pepper.  Of course, I
    consider it a major cross cultural coop that E Grace drinks diet DP. 
    Although I suspect the reason she likes it is that Dr Pepper is spelled
    without a period. :-)

    Mary

    AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH I fergot abouth Mammoth rd. The one I learned to
    drive on too. DDUUHH. 
    
    Ice Cream. I think the results of the survey was those of us up in
    Gawdesses country eat more ice cream then anyone else. I will admit,
    and this is a very difficult thing for me to do, that Mass. has the
    best ice cream. I'M TALKING KIMBALL'S AND DOC DAVISES' HERE FOLKS. They
    have absolutely the most scrumpdiddlyumpcious ice cream in all of the
    known multiverses. Doc's in Pepperell and Kimballs in Littleton.
    
    Phil

    Yeah, BYO tea bag.  They threw all the tea in the harbor a few years
    back. :-)
    
    -Mary

    Kimballs, good and creamy but definitely a local operation.
    
    Ben & Jerry's!  YEAH!  now, *they* know how to make interesting and
    yummy ice cream flavors!  Coffee Heathbar Crunch, Vanilla Chocolate
    Chunk, and my all time fav, TOLL-HOUSE-COOKIE-DOUGH! Let me bring some
    on over to the Floatation Tank...

    	I moved to Nude Hampster in May of 1984.
    
    	The winters are no worse here than in Ohio. The difference
    	is that in Ohio, at least the western part where I'm from,
    	it's mostly flat. Here, it's more rolling, which makes driving
    	in bad weather a little more bothersome.
    
    	The summers in Ohio are too humid for me. I like the lower
    	humidity up here much better.
    
    	But, too many people (Yea, I know, I'm part of the problem),
    	and too many cars for the road system.
    
    	Scott

    
>   And re: a few back, there are 3 interstates in Vt ever since
>   93 got finished.
    
        There are?  I can only account for 2.  I91 follows the
    CT. River from MA to Canada.  I89 crosses I91 at White River
    and goes mostly north (hence the odd number) to Montpelier,
    Burlington and St Albans.  I189 circles around Burlington.
    That make three is you count the I189 connector.

        I93 is over here in NH.

        Odd trivia.  Did you ever notice that all of the single
    digit US Highways, expect US8, are in New England.

        I too would not by choice live anywhere but New England.
    Born and raised in Vermont, school in Boston, Digital in MA
    and NH.  Merrimack is too far south if anything.  Like them
    mountains up north.


    Peter Duke

    >Coffee ice cream - not particularly popular in other regions.  Here
    >coffee goes without saying, like choclate and vanilla. McDonald's even
    >sells coffee milkshakes here. 
    
    But, if you have a hankerin' for a cherry milkshake or ice cream soda
    or frappe or whatever, better bring your own, 'cause these New
    Englanders just give you an incredulous look if you ask for one.
    
    Or am I the only one who likes cherry milkshakes?
    
    Re. ice cream in general, one of the best things about living in
    New England is Ben and Jerry's ice cream!  I guess they've expanded
    their distribution area, but it's made here.
    
    Karen

    When my folks showed us a map of the area we were relocating to from
    upstate NY, my brother and I (aged 14 and 11) said things like 
    "NEW HAMPSHIRE?? WHERE IS THAT?" and "MERRIMACK??!!" (pronounced
    Merry-mack by my dad) and "BABOOSIC LAKE??!"  I  mean, where we
    were from  the towns had NORMAL EASY TO PRONOUNCE NAMES like
    Skaeneatlas, Cayuga, Oneonta, Schenectady, Throop, etc... Not
    to mention Syracuse, pronounced Sary-cuse by my dad!  I mean, really!
    
    Developments of houses, that all looked alike.  NO SIDEWALKS! 
    EVERGREEN TREES!  Barely any maples in sight.  People made fun of
    OUR accent.  Hummph.  When we went to the mall, there were no parks,
    only PARKING SPACES!  Kids in school assumed that all of new york
    is NEW YORK CITY.  
    
    I wouldn't go back if you paid me.  I had never seen the ocean before.
    Never tasted a lobster.  Never hiked a mountain!  And then there's
    BOSTON!  Plays!  Hockey and Basketball and Baseball games!  And beneath
    the crusty exteriors, these new englanders have hearts of gold!
    
    Oh yeah--and FRIED DOUGH!  Jack and Jills--never heard of those either.
    But I do miss Manhatten Style Clam Chowder, even tho I love NE style
    too.
    
    
    Kim

    Well, I'm from Rhode Island (pronounced Rha DIE l'n), and I noticed
    a few things when I moved to Massachusetts.
    
    They drink frappes instead of cabinets, and eat subs instead of
    grinders.  They don't know what clamcakes are, and probably think
    they're something like Maryland crab cakes.
    
    They run red lights.  (Tony had picked up a visitor at the airport,
    and was driving him home.  Here it was two in the morning, and
    Tony was stopping at every *green* light in Cambridge!  The visitor
    asked why.  Tony explained that people ran red lights.  The visitor
    replied, "That's the most id--".  He stopped when a car ran the
    light in front of them.)  This puts them in mortal conflict with
    New York drivers.  (What's a nanosecond?  The difference in time
    between when the light turns green and the New York driver behind
    you hits his horn.)
    
    When you move to Massachusetts, go to a bookstore.  (They are common.)
    Buy _Wild_in_the_Streets:_The_Boston_Driver's_Handbook_ and a book
    of maps of all the towns in eastern Massachusetts.  Read the former,
    and keep the other in your car.
    
    Route 90 is called the Pike, the Mass Pike, or the Massachusetts
    Turnpike.  Massachusetts Avenue is called Massave.  Commonwealth
    Avenue is called Commave.  Both are longer than you think.
    
    Oh, yeah.  I learned in the Midwest that most people don't understand
    that an elastic is a rubber band.  (This is in the same category
    as bubbler = drinking fountain.)
    
    						Ann B.

	The first time I'd heard of an "English Muffin" was when I went to the 
	states, do they orriginate from New England?

	Heather

    .51, inre English Muffins,
    
    you mean they're not English?!?!?!  next you'll tell me French toast
    and French fries aren't French!
    
    Sara
    

    Ann,
    
    In the Woostah area, we call grinders grinders too. When you get
    towards "Metro West" they call them subs.
     
    Nothing like a grinda and cold tonic!!!
    
    Linda-local-yokel-from-Shrewsbury, MA

>    you mean they're not English?!?!?!  

    we have had "muffins for tea", but that was a long time before my gran 
    was even born when they used to toast them on the open fire, put a little
    butter with them, and eat them with tea at 4.00pm. More like crumpets 
    really.
	
    they have no resemblance to the "English Muffins" I saw on sale in America.


>   next you'll tell me French toast and French fries aren't French!
    
    I believe the French call them aluminettes, or whatever the French is for
    matchsticks, I never understood why people would eat them, I much prefer 
    chips.

    French toast, I'm not sure, I've seen different ways of doing this, one
    way is poosible French.............where's Ad, I'm sure he knows!

	Heather    

    **Ben and Jerry's News Flash**
    
    They're opening up another plant in Bellows Falls, Vermont!  Don't know
    when they'll start production, but the plans were announced in
    December.  If you're in Middlebury, you can get "factory seconds".
    
    re the pronunciation of Worcester....it's WUHSTAH!
    
    
    Judi
    

    Yeah Sara, Kimball's is a local outfit. I'm something of an ice cream
    snob. I don't eat boxed icecream. Ben and jerry's is boxed. I got
    spoiled when my dad and i used to make our own. My arm gets sore
    thinking about the handcranking I used to do and all that rock salt
    oish.
    
    English muffins. I think they were in England until Mr. Thomas left for
    America in the late 19th century. At least that's what the TV
    commercial says. :-) Seriously, or at least as much as this topic
    allows, I've often wondered about that too. Anyone know the secret
    origin of English muffins.
    
    Oh yeah. Another great ice cream place is Keller Haus in Laconia.
    Go up route 3, (that's the NH version, not the Mass. version) to the
    Weirs Beach Water Slide. Keep going up the hill from there. Keller Haus
    is on the right. One of those make your own Sundae places. Last time I
    was there, several years now, you paid one price for the dish and told
    them when to stop putting the ice cream in. 10 scoops? no problem.
    Thjen you went and put all the goop and toppings on. Calorie city but
    yummy. You eat it while sitting where you can overlook Lake
    Winnepesaukee and Mt. Washington. After you go down stairs and browse
    through one of the best candle shops I've ever been in.
    
    Mike, Mt. Washington is small compared to Pikes Peak, but it is a nice
    mountain. Besides, we have the great stone face. I know it's sexist,
    but one of my favorite stories is about Daniel Webster. He was talking
    to some business men in Boston one day and they were pointing out the
    giant spectacles at the opticians and the giant boot outside the
    cobbler's shop. He told them to come up to NH where we had a spot where
    God hung out his sign to show that he made men. I love this story and I
    know we have a female great stone face and a great indian face on the
    cliffs of NH also. I just like this one because of the story. I also
    like the Devil and Daniel Webster because in it the Devil had to
    promise to leave native NH'ers alone for eternity because ole DW beat
    him fair and square. Silly stories but I like em.
    
    Phil who does get to rambling now and then.
    

I grew up in Vermont, where we drink soda; my brother married a
woman from New Hampshire who drinks tonic and bets on the hosses.
Joanne is from Michigan, and she drinks pop. 

As far as drivers go, there's no comparing eastern Massachusetts
drivers with the rest of New England. Eastern Mass. has the rudest bunch of
drivers I've ever seen. It starts getting better west of 495. Defensive driving
takes on a whole new meaning here! I much prefer driving in Vermont,
Maine, or New Hampshire (the real New Hampshire, not those border towns).

And Scott, Nashua isn't New Hampshire. It's Mass. North. You want
New Hampshire, you gotta get up Merrimack way, or further!

Town meeting day is the best. At least in Vermont. (Schools used
to close in Vermont on town meeting day. Do they still?) I haven't
been to one here in Massachusetts yet.

Don't forget Indian pudding, creamed onions, clam chowder, and New England
boiled dinner!

Kathy

    
	I grew up on the South Shore (suburbs southeast of Boston).
    
    Some of my favorites:
    
    	black and white frappes
    	coffee frappes
    	scrod
    	indian pudding with hard sauce
    	steamers
    	lobster
    	clam fritters
    	Italian subs
    	tonic (especially Mrs. Meyer's home-made rootbeer)
    	Westport turnips
    	butter and sugar corn
    
    

    Mike, you're also gonna hafta learn to say towns' names right.
    
    Wrentham:  is it rent-ham or renthm?
    
    Westford:  is it west ford or wesfud?
    
    Chelmsford: is it chelmsford, chum-fed, or (as I once heard a native say
    		chun-sed?
    
    Phil -- I never said Kimballs wasn't good!  it's yummy, but I don't
    like the lines.  Mike, bring wet wipes and don't wear nice clothes,
    they overfill the cups with ice cream at Kimballs.
                                               
    ?? -- rt 93 was recently completed through Franconia Notch :-( in the
    White Mtns and right on through to St Johnsbury Vt, where it connects
    to rt 91.  So someone else was right, there *are* 3 interstates in Vt. 
    
    Mike, don't ever try to drive the speed limit on rt 128, you'd be a
    danger to yourself and everyone around you.  And if you don't tailgate,
    someone will cut into the space you leave between you and the car
    ahead.  I do not miss eastern Mass traffic.

    re .55, I agree with your pronunciation of Worcester...Wuhstah
    
    I grew up near Milford, Mass., pronounced...Milfid
    
    My ex-husband grew-up in Leicester, Mass., or...Lestah
    
    Lorna  (pronounced Lawna)
    

    The best ice cream is Toscanini's in Cambridge, hands down.  I would
    think that the reason so much ice cream is eaten is that there are so
    many "designer" ice gream stores around but I may be wrong.
    
    As for seasons
    1) Cold season.  Very cold.  May snow. Jan-Mar.
    2) Melt season.  Any snow left on the ground melts, creating mud if you
    live in New Hampster or a disgusting soup of salt and sand in Mass. 
    Make sure your windshield wiper fluid is full. Mid-Mar.
    3) Rain season.  50�F and rainy just about every day.  Apr-Mid May.
    4) Spring.  Beautiful weather, pretty flowers, lasts about 3 weeks. 
    Mid May - 1st week of June.
    5) Mosquito hatching season.  SElf-explanatory.  June.
    6) Oppressive heat and humidity.  Self-explanatory.  July- Mid Sept.
    7) Fall.  Pretty trees, lots of apples, lots of wood burning stoves,
    crisp mornings.  Lasts about 4 weeks. Mid Sept - Mid Oct.
    8) Christmas season.  Cold weather, no snow.  All the stores are decked
    out for the holidays.  The decorations on Mass Ave. in Cambridge go up.
    Mid Oct - Dec.
    
    At least this is the way that I have figured them out to be.  This
    August wil mark the 10th anniversary of my becoming a New Englandite.
    
    I used to live in NJ.  Some things I noticed different were that there
    were a lot more pick-up trucks on the roads, the air was better, people
    in general seemed to have more self-sufficiency skills like knowing how
    to fix things or grow things or raise animals, etc., the hair wasn't
    quite as big, less malls (fine with me), no lights on the roads at
    night, less crowded, houses were older, oh a lot of things.
    
    Lisa 

    Leominster only has three syllables.  
    
    Amherst drops the h in Mass, but not in New Hampshire.
    
    :^)

    The seasons:
    
    Spring:  May, June
    Summer:  July, August (I love oppressive heat & humidity)
    Fall:    Sept., Oct.
    Winter:  Nov., Dec., Jan., Feb., March, April, *sigh*
    
    Lorna
    

    It's Wus-ter!  TheRe aRe those of us who pRonounce ouR "R"s!  
    
    E Grace_who_is_learning_to_say_"idea"

    If you're into Mexican food, better learn to cook it yourself (and set
    up a supplier for some of the key ingredients before you leave
    Colorado).  While New England's eat-in Mexican restaurants are getting
    better (or have I been away from the real stuff for so long that I've
    forgotten what it tastes like?), there still aren't any Mexican
    fast-food places that I'm aware of.
    
    Karen

    re Worcester
    
    All the r's are intact when I pronounce it, but people always ask me if
    I grew up in the Midwest!  And people in California looked at me funny
    when I asked where to find the bubbler!
    
    And then there's Sommerville, pronounced as though one has just removed
    their dentures...Summahvihl
    
    
    Yes, I'm looking forward to moving to Maine.  I've had enough of the
    commute on route 2!
    
    Judi
    

    E, it's easy. Idea pronounced idear. One of floating R's again. E,
    could you give the R's the same lesson in nice behavior that your hugs
    have? 
    
    Sara, I know you were not disparaging Kimball's. I am the one who is an
    ice cream snob. (Not really. It's just that I don't care for Ben and
    Jerry's. To each hir own. As long as we all like ice cream. :-)  )
    Oh yeah. The long lines are part of the atmosphere of Kimball's. Where
    else you gonna go for ice cream and find a cop directing traffic
    because it's so crowded. 
    
    Phil

.62>                 -< I still can't pronounce Medford >-

    	That's easy, Marge - according to some people I know, it's 
    "Meffa"! :^)

    	amy (whose grandparents lived there for many years, and who
    	     went to school in Medford/Somerville aka Summaville)
    	

    Another shock you might experience if you ever drive up to
    Massachusetts from Rhode Island on I95 ... when I95 meets
    up with old Mass. highway 128, you'll find you're going
    north and south at the same time.  
    
    nla
    

    in re Kimballs, Erickson's in Stow is every bit as good, if they
    are still open, but not as famous so the lines are shorter.
    
    Bonnie
    
    (former Stow Mass resident)

    re: .63
    
    > I love oppressive heat & humidity
    
    Me too, Lorna.  But then I have an excuse.  DC has a reputation for
    being the oppressive heat and humidity capital of the country (in
    addition to being some other kind of capital that I can never
    remember :-)  BTW its pronounced Warshington by natives, *if* you can
    find one.
    
    -Mary

    
    RE .61
    
    I second the recommendation for Toscanini's, especially their hazelnut.
    Herrel's is a runner up with their almond icecream and heathbar
    mix-ins.
    
    					clb (who lived on Bailey's hot
    					     fudge sundaes during
    					     college)
    

    Erickson's is still there, and fabulous...however it does close shop
    between Nov. and April or May.  Lines are getting longer, though.  As
    for Mexican food, there are no good restaurants that I know of.  But I
    do give cooking lessons!
    
    Laura (a current Stow resident)
    

    THE bestest ice cream is FaFa's  STRAWBERRY CHEESECAKE ice cream!!!

    This is found in the little town of Duxbury near the ocean!  Now
    open year round!

    justme....jacqui

    

    ICE CREAM
    Toscaninni's gets my vote for best ice cream, but I must insist the
    pistacio is the most unusual and scrumptious flavor (and I'm a
    confirmed chocoholic!).  Emack and Bolio's is a close second. I've
    heard Boston is an unusual place because people will wait in line in a
    blizzard to get ice cream.  It's probably unusual for other things as
    well...!  
    
    Now I live in Amherst, MA, where they have things like beansprout ice tofu. 
    Ah, for the days when I lived in Coolidge Corner Brookline and had FIVE
    gourmet ice cream shops in walking distance!
    
    TRAFFIC 
    Another bizarre traffic thing in Massachusetts.  We all know what
    blinking red means (stop, look, go).  We all know what blinking yellow
    means (go slow).  What on earth does BLINKING GREEN mean?  I've even
    looked it up and it makes no sense.
    
    WEATHER
    I used to live in DC and unfortunately DC winters (wet, ice storms, and
    not enough snow) have followed me...we need a good blizzard.  A real
    RIPSNORTER.
    
    Pam

    <---- Pam,

    You can at least zip over to Herrel's in NOHO and get their
    LEMON CHIFFON ice cream when they make it!!!

    justme....jacqui

    Yes, I've been to Fa-fa's and it is good. Erickson's, I hadn't heard of
    and would be willing to give it a try. I just am not crazy about ice
    cream out of a box. Hmmm. Poor Mike is going to think we are all ice
    cream junkies out here. Before we rathole this topic to far, let's try
    to get back on track. 
    
    Quite a few back. Yes he's gotta try a good old fashioned New England
    or even better, just Maine clambake. A mile long stretch of beach with
    pits every 10 feet just for clams and lobsters. All the beer you can
    drink and just a general good time. Hmm. Sounds like a good reason for
    another Womannotes party. Anyone own a mile of beach up in Maine or
    anywhere close. :-)
    
    Phil

    re.73 on Mexican food [Boston]
    
    I have found Las Brisas near the Aquarium and Casa Romero in-the-
    alley-off-Gloucester in the Back Bay to be pretty fine [esp Casa
    Romero].
    
    I, too, mostly make my own.
    
    [We made flying run to Texas over Christmas.  We hit the ground in
    Austin, picked up our luggage and the rental car, drove straight-away
    to eat some of the _real_ stuff ... before even letting the family know
    we were in town <we surprised them>]

But

	Where's the Vernor's Ginger Ale?

    Mexican Food
    
    Rudi's in Sommerville and Jose's in Sommerville/Cambridge (those town
    lines get awfully muddled up!) are pretty good.
    
    If you're looking for decent fajitas, Tweeds on Grove Street in
    Worcester does a good job.
    
    
    Judi
    

    Houlihans (SP) in Framingham and Fanuil Hall make the best fajitas
    hands down...

   When you go to the grocery store, your groceries will go in "bags",
   not "sacks".

    Ha!  New England has NO Mexican food, period.  Especially if you are
    from the southwest.  Unless you know how to cook your own, you might
    as well just give it up.  Even if you do, you can't get proper chili
    peppers up here.
    
    The best fajitas in the area are, without a doubt, at the Border Cafe
    in Harvard Sq.  Too bad the wait is so long, the service so bad and the
    parking so hard.  Even so, I got there at least once a month, usually
    more, because the food is *sooo* good (compared to all other attempts
    at Tex-mex in the Northeast.)
    
    D!

    You may miss the mountains, but we do have an ocean here.  For those
    of us addicted to the sea, there can be no other place to live.
    
    Maia
    

    re bags and sacks... you'll have a shopping "carriage", not cart.  You'll
    put your trash in a "barrel", not trashcan or trashbin.
    
    :^)

    Traffic signals, at least in Masachusetts, do not conform to Federal
    Hwy Admin standards.   
    
    Blinking green - I think this is a pedestrian activated light. Why they
    need to make the distinction is beyond me.  A solid green would
    suffice.
    
    And then there is the simultaneous red and yellow, which as far as I
    can figure means the same thing as red, but pedestrian activated.
    
    My favorite is the blinking yellow pedestrian lights on Rt. 16 in
    Medford (I think) near I-93.  These are accompanied by signs which read
    "Signals timed to require frequent stops".  They are pedestrian lights,
    but are activated when there are no pedestrians present just to make
    you stop.  Instead of blinking green they are blinking yellow.  You're
    supposed to notice when the blinking yellow turns to solid yellow. This
    means the light is about to turn red (or is it red and yellow at the
    same time).
    
    Jody already mentioned the red with a green arrow which in other states
    is rare, but means the same thing as a yield sign.  Here it means the
    same thing as a green arrow.  There's one of these in Harvard square
    that's particularly quaint because the same light is used to control
    traffic in opposing directions.  These frugal New Englanders!
    
    If you encounter a flashing yellow signal in Mass. do not assume the
    other guy has a flashing red, it could be a flashing yellow as well.
    That is just plain perverse.
    
    Mary

    D!
    
    I love the Border Cafe, too.  I go at 3 in the afternoon on weekends to
    avoid the wait.  Even then they are packed.  But then parking is not a
    problem for me.  I can walk.
    
    Mary

    Yeah, I forgot about green arrows.  There's a light in Waltham with a
    left hand turn arrow.
    
    The arrow turns green to allow people to make a left hand turn.  But
    those of us with Mass. driving experience know that the oncoming
    traffic also has a green light and that if you are mistaken into
    thinking that the lefthand turners have right of way because of the
    arrow your car will get mushed.
    
    Also remember that the Western Ave./Memorial Drive traffic light has a
    delayed green in favor of those needing to turn left onto Western Ave.
    This delayed green is about two seconds long, about the time it takes
    out-of-towners to realize that the opposing traffic is not moving.  
    So they start to turn, and the opposing traffic moves forward (now they
    have a green too) and the out-of-towner starts to panic and slow down,
    which is really bad because the next four cars needing to turn left are
    Boston residents who were attempting to form a train of cars turning
    left in front of the oncoming traffic, so now you have eight zillion
    cars in the intersection......
    
    As a corrolary, Western Ave. bridge is one way out of Cambridge, River 
    Street bridge is one way in, don't make a mistake.....I've seen two
    headon collisions here.....
    
    Don't expect merge lanes when entering high speed highways like Rt.
    2.....
    
    In the city, on a road with multiple lanes in each direction recognize
    the road hazards that come with travel in either lane,  travelling in
    the left lane will get you stuck behind someone turning left, travel in
    the right lane will get you stuck behind a double (or Triple) parked
    vehicle with its hazard lights on.
    
    Taxis ALWAYS have the right of way.  The same goes for early model land
    yachts with rust....
    
    and most of all......
    
    Watch out for people that are lost.  They drive very slow and/or weave
    back and forth between lanes as they look at their map and/or come to a
    complete stop when they realize they missed their turn.  Sometimes they
    throw it into reverse and start backing up.  These are the only group
    of people that I have found to be completely unpredictable in their
    driving habits.
    
    Lisa

D! is the first person talking about Mexican food in N.E. that I know is even
potentially qualified to judge. Having eaten Mexican food, in Mexico, for most
of my highschool years and quite a bit of college, I will have to agree with
her. There is NO good Mexican food in New England. Period. The food at the
Border Cafe is good, but it sure isn't Mexican.

I tried to cook cheese enchiladas for one Womannotes party. I had a gadawful
time finding ANY kind of enchilada sauce, and eventually had to settle for
"Old El Paso" canned enchilada sauce which we wouldn't even use to kill snails
out here. If you've only eaten Mexican food in New England, you are clearly and
obviously unqualified to judge whether it's good in any absolute sense, you
just don't have enough context.

On the other hand, youins have Bluefish... Live Maine lobsters I can get out
here, real Vermont maple syrup I can get out here (mail order is wonderful
stuff), I can even get good clam chowdah out here, but I CAN'T GET BLUEFISH!

I've got a list of places in New England that I'd be willing to live. For
many many years it was blank. Now there are two places on it:

	Cambridge Mass.
	Northampton Mass.

Good beer, good ice cream, decent restaurants, socially aware, college towns.
But the weather still sucks.

	-- Charles

    re .49  - Ah, another Upstate New Yorker!  When I moved here from
    Syracuse (Yes, Home of the Orangemen!) in 1979 I thought I'd moved to Miami.
    Winter here is more messy than anything but then I was used to an
    average snowfall in excess of 10 feet.  It really blew my mind when a few
    inches of snow was an excuse to be late for, not show up for, cancel
    work.  And I had never seen convoys of pick-up trucks plowing major
    roads.  Where are the butterfly plows? 
    
    I will say that I think New England springs are about the most
    beautiful anywhere.  Never seen so many flowering trees, blubs and
    shrubs.
    
    re Traffic lights.  I made a study of this.  Red and yellow together are
    pedestrian activated and mean that the traffic is to stop in all
    directions and that the pedestrain has absolute right of way.
    
    Flashing green lights mean that the light might at some time in the
    future -- but not the imminent future because then it would be a yellow
    light -- turn red.  Make sense?  Not to me!
    
    My daughter is a student in Rhodisland (pronounced as one word) and she
    tells me that the drivers there are worse than here in eastern Mass but
    that is a bit hard to believe.  RI does have the disticntion of having
    elected a known felon as mayor of their capitol city.
    
    Having moved to Syracuse from Denver and to Mass from Syracuse, I'd
    have to admit that while I like New England, I could move somewhere
    else if their was enough incentive.
    
    Polly

According to Ben & Jerry's Homemade Ice Cream & Desert Book:

Coheeni's First Law
-------------------

We considered a few towns in Massachusetts but decided they were too
seasonal for our needs.  At a friend's suggestion, we took a look at
Burlington, Vermont.  It had the right number of students, and its
population was growing at a good rate.  It didn't already have an ice cream
parlor.  What it did have was an average of 161 days a year when the
temperature plunged below freezing and a total winter snow accumulation of
five feet (not counting a spring accumulation of 13 inches).  That bothered
us until I came up with the Internal-External Temperature Differential and
Equalization Theory (later to become Coheeni's First Law of Ice-Cream-Eating 
Dynamics).  Herein I explained that the apparent cold that the body feels
in cold climates is based on the difference between the internal body
temperature and the external temperature.  By lowering the internal
temperature (through eating cold things in the winter), the internal
temperature drops and the body feels comparative warmth.  We discovered
that a healthy, daily intake of cold ice cream not only helped to reduce
that difference, but it also helped to make the frigid winter months much
more bearable, if not downright pleasant.

    Charles,
    
    We occaisionally get bluefish in Colorado during some season, although
    since the better local fish market closed, I haven't seen it.  I can
    live without bluefish, however, I live for southwestern cooking.  Mike,
    will we have to send you out regular care packages?  
    
    My sister always took beans, wholewheat tortilla's, Pace's Picante, and
    her favorite brand of tortilla chips back when she was living on the
    coast.  At least where she was there were no Taco Bell's or Taco
    John's. 
    
    Meg

    Actually my use, and other people's use, of the word "Mexican" in this
    string is a misnomer.  What is commonly called "Mexican", such as
    tacos, enchiladas, burritos and nachos, is really Tex-Mex.  It was
    invented in southern Texas and New Mexico (from whence I come) and
    really has very little to do with the country of Mexico.  There are a
    few passable Tex-Mex restaurants in the Northeast, most notably the
    Border Cafe - damn few, but they exist.  
    
    There is *also* a delicious cuisine which originates in Mexico and is
    *properly* called "Mexican"  and there are, literally, no Mexican
    restaurants in Massachusetts, at least, none that I have found.  Forget
    good, they just don't exist!  If ya'll ever make it to Santa Fe, and
    want to experience one of the true culinary delights of the Western
    Hemisphere, go to La Tertulia ("the meeting place") on Paseo de
    Peralta, and order black bean soup, pollo (chicken) chalupas, flan for
    desert, and don't forget the world's best Sangria!
    
    How many New Englanders have ever had, or even heard of, a sopapilla?
    
    Ah, but New England has it's good points, culinarily speaking...Legal
    Seafood Bluefish Pate is truly the food of the god(esse)s.
    
    D!

    	Wait - did anyone mention that we have package stores (aka
    liquor stores) here?  That's New England specific...I remember the
    first time I went to a grocery store...I can't remember what state
    now...and they had beer and wine right there in the store!  (Of
    course I was mucho surprised the first time I went to the Victory
    supermarket in Hudson, MA and they had alcohol).  So when someone
    says they have to make a "packy run", it means they're going to
    the store for alcohol.

    	amy

    But wasn't I surprised to learn that in other states, while you can buy
    beer in the supermarket, you *can't* buy it in the liquor store!  In
    New York state they had stores that specialized in *beer*, they didn't
    sell groceries *or* wine and liquor, just beer and wine coolers (as
    well as soda and other non-alcoholic beverages.)
    
    Weird.
    
    Also be forwarned about all the weird laws we have here.  Can't buy
    alcohol on a Sunday, by George!  Can't kiss your wife on a Sunday,
    either, although it doesn't say anything about other people's wives.
    
    Also, to be granted Massachusetts citizenship you will be required to
    change your political affiliation to Democrat (if it isn't already)
    unless you swear on your honor to vote for Weld in the next election.
    
    Also, you have to drink a *whole* can of Moxie.  Ick!
    
    Forget that you understand words like "north" as meaning
    "towards the north pole" and "west" as  meaning 270 degrees from North.
    For only in New England to roads labelled "north" (such as Rt 128) 
    actually travel in a full circle; and only in MA can you be on one
    road, travelling towards the East, and be on a road labelled North
    *and* a road labelled South *at* *the* *same* *time*.  I kid you not.
    (I-93 North and I-95 South)
    
    Massachusetts has the most rabid sports fans of anywhere I have ever
    been.  People get positively *obsessed*.  Suicide rates soar round
    World Series time.  The annual Celtics victory march (which happens
    whether they win or not) is to Boston was major religious holidays are
    to other cities.
    
    D!

    After reading all of the previous notes about the meaning of New
    England traffic signals, I think I'm going to sell my car.
    
    -- Mike

    Oh, Mike, don't worry about it!  MA has the weirdest rules of the road,
    but DON'T WORRY because you aren't expected to follow any of them!
    
    D!

    And before anyone back there chimes in about sopapillas, with all that
    cinnamon sugar...no, that *isn't* what D! is talking about ;-).
    
    DougO

    Basic Rules for Driving in Boston
       by Diane White
    (original source unknown)
    
    posted w/o any permission whatsoever
    
    Boston is often aclaimed as the most exciting sity in Merica in thiwch
    to drive.  Who would argue?  Herewith, for the nercomers and visitors,
    a few basic rules of the road for driving hereabouts:
    
    * To obtain a general idea of how to drive in Boston, go to a Celtics
    game and carefully watch the fast breaks.  Then get heind the wheel of
    your car and practice it.
    
    * Never take a green light at face value.  Always look right and left
    before proceeding.
    
    * When in doubt, accelerate.
    
    * Very generally speaking, the intransigence of the Bostons driver is
    directly proportional to the expense of hir American-made car, and
    inversely proportional to the expense of hir foreign-made car. But in
    applying this formula, bear in mind that they are all more or less
    intransigent.
    
    * in the long run, parking your car in a lot is always cheaper than
    parking it at a meter.
    
    * Drivers whose cars sport "I brake for animals" bumper stickers may
    brake for animals, but they may not brake for you.  Watch it.
    
    * Never drive behind a person whose head doesn't reach the top of the
    steering wheel.
                                   
    * Teenage drivers believe they are immortal.  Don't yield to the
    temptation to teach them otherwise.
    
    * Taxicabs should always have the right of way, unless you are bent on
    suicide.
    
    * Never, ever, strop for a pedestrian unless he flings himself under
    the wheels of your car.
    
    * The first parking space you see will be the last parking space you
    see.  Grab it.
    
    * Boston is the home of slalom driving, thanks to the Registry of Motor
    Vehicles, which puts potholes in key locations to test drivers'
    reflexes and keep them on their toes.
    
    * Steer clear of people with antinuclear bumper stickers pasted on
    their cars.  They are interested in preserving mankind, which is
    admirable.  But they are not interested in preserving you or
    themselves, for that matter.  They have more important things to think
    about.
    
    * Never get in the way of a car that needs extensive body work.
    
    * Double-park when shopping in the North End of Boston, unless
    triple-parking is available.
    
    * Always look both ways when running a red light.
    
    * While it is possible to fit a 15-foot car into a 15-foot parking
    space, it is seldom possible to fit a 16-foot car into a 15-foor
    parking space.  Sad but true.
    
    * There is not such thing as a short cut during rush-hour traffice in
    Boston.
    
    * It is traditional in Boston to honk your horn at cards that don't
    move the instant the light changes.
    
    * Never put your faith in signs that purport to provide directions. 
    They are put there to further confuse people who don't know their way
    around the city.
    
    * Use extreme caution when pulling into breakdown lanes.  Breakdown
    lanes are not for breaking down, but for speeding, especially during
    rush-hour.
    
    [ed: how many people know that this is actually *legal* on 128 during
    rush-hour? -D!]
    
    * Never use turn directional signals, since they only confound and
    distract other Boston drivers, who are not used to then.
    
    * Similarly, never attempt to give hand signals.  Boston drivers,
    unused to such courtesies, will think you are waving them on to pass
    you.
    
    * The yellow light is not, as commonly supposed outside the Boston
    area, a signal to slow down.  It is a warning to speed up and get
    through the intersection before the light turns red.
    
    * Never pass on the left when you can pass on the right.
    
    * In making a left turn from the right lane, employ the element of
    surprise.  That is, do it as suddenly as possible, so as to stun the
    other drivers.
    
    * Speed limits are arbitrary figures posted only to make you feel
    guilty.
    
    * Whenever possible, stop in the moddle of a crosswalk to ensure
    inconvenience as many pedestrians as possible.
    
    * Remember that the goal of ever Boston driver is to get there first by
    whatever means necessary.
    
    *** Above all, keep moving. ***

    When you come down to it, the rules of the road in Massachusetts
    are really straightforward:

	Oldest car has the right of way.

	Unless it's a rental.

    Also, I haven't seen the really accurate description of the
    blinking green (a couple were close).

    Blinking green denotes a pedestrian crosswalk - never a cross
    street for cars. When the pedestrian pushes the button (if it
    works), the blinking green turns to red and yellow simultaneously.
    (I don't recall if it goes through a yellow-only cycle first.)

    For Boston drivers, red+yellow means "targeting engaged, bogies
    detected, radar lock".

    I also don't recall seeing a description of the algorithm for
    naming streets.

    A street is named for the next town over. So in Arlington you'll
    have a street called (say) Belmont Street. As soon as you cross
    the line into Belmont on this street, you'll note it's called
    Arlington Street.

    Some towns are too small to be noticed. I live in Carlisle. We
    have Concord Road. But in Concord, it's Lowell Road. Humph. At
    least they ignored Chelmsford, too (but then, who doesn't?).

    Macho Driving in Massachusetts
    (author unknown)
    
    Those of you who have been driving in Massachusetts all your lives are
    familiar with many of the so-called macho driving techniques.  Drivers
    from out of state, new to the macho driving scene, are probably curious
    as to what these people are up to.  So here are some tips for macho
    driving in Nassachusetts:
    
    1.  You should drive a pickup truck whether you need one or not. It
    should be extremely large with lots of blinding yellow fog lights.  If
    it doesn't have them already, purchase used tires from MX missle
    transport trucks (roughly six feet in diameter) and raise the
    suspension to allow clearance over the wimps that drive cars.  If you
    must drive a car, make sure that it couldn't possibly pass inspection.
    
    2.  Practice your best scowl.  Remember that this is the only
    expression you are permitted to show once behind the wheel. So make it
    as ugly as possible.
    
    3.  Do NOT be intimidated by the weather. It should never affect your
    macho driving style. Under no circumstances should you use windshield
    wipers.  They are for appearance only. IF snow has blanketed your
    vehicle, clear a peephole just large enough to see what's in front of
    you. You are not permitted to leave your vehicle to do this, however! 
    IF you can't reach around to the windshield while you are driving, then
    put on your defroster and windshield wipers full blast under you can
    just see the road.
    
    4.  Darkness intimidates wimps!  Only use your headlights when its
    pitch dark and you see the police.  Of course, if you do have those
    brlinding yellow fog lights, you may use them whenever you see fit.  It
    is also considered macho if only one front headlight works.
    
    5.  Always drive with your right hand on the wheel and your entire left
    arm hanging lossely out the window like a slab of meat.
    
    6.  Any loose objects in the vehicle may be thrown out of the window
    without hesitation (especially macho is throwing out burning objects
    like cigars.)
    
    7.  The only appropriate time to use directional signals, if you must
    use them at all, is while you're driving in a straight line down the
    highway (you could actually leave them on all the time since nobody
    really believe you are going to turn anyway).
    
    8.  You must be prepared to yell obscenities at and give the finger to
    anything that moves. If you are always prepared, you will beat the
    other macho drivers to the punch.
    
    9.  In Massachusetts, the road sign YIELD has no meaning, but the sign
    STOP means YIELD. A flashing yellow or green light means the same thing
    as a YIELD sign, and a flashing red light is the same as a STOP sign.
    You must never come to a complete stop unless the vehicle in front of
    you comes to a complete stop.  Only wimps stop for red lights.  So be
    sure to blast your horn the split second the light turns green.
    
    10.  Driving in the breakdown lane is stronly encouraged.  Passing
    traffic in the breakdown lane on multi-lane highways in particularly
    macho.  Driving over the road shoulder or on top of the median strip to
    get traffic should be left to the experienced macho driver.
    
    11.  Passing traffic on winding, narrow roads without hesitation will
    gain the respect of other macho drivers.
    
    12.  Never yield to emergency road vehicles such as ambulances.  They
    will find a way to get around you (they never should have caught up
    with you in the first place.)
    
    13.  You must master the art of tailgaiting to become a full-fledged
    macho driver.  With practice, it is possible to maintain a distance of
    two to three inches between you and the vehicle in front of you without
    even paying attention!  This is particularly confusing to the driver
    when you are in heavy traffic.  If the driver in front of you tries
    something cute like slowly down, jamming on the brakes, or flipping the
    lights on and off, be ready with your obscenities and finger.  Remember
    that you are always in a bigger hurry than the guy in front of you.
    
    14.  Another art to master is that of "cutting off" other drivers. 
    This must be done with great care when cutting off other macho drivers. 
    Sometimes it is necessary to wait for the oncoming vehicle for quite
    some time before rolling out in front of it, but that is the art. Your
    mission is to see the front of the vehicle you are cutting off nearly
    hit the ground as it brakes to a screeching halt. Of course, you appear
    never to have seen the oncoming vehicle even though you had to wait for
    it.  You must then be careful not to accelerate until the driver you
    just cut off has finished giving you the finger and yelling
    obscenities.
    
    15.  Sometimes associate with "cutting off" is the ability to close off
    gaps in traffic.  This is one of my favorite macho-driving techniques. 
    When you detect a vehicle either trying to pull into traffic or
    accelerating toward you in an attempt tp get past you, you must adjust
    your speed such that the gap in traffic will NOT be there when the
    vehicle gets to it.  You must anticipate the driver's intention while
    nonchalantly altering your speed to intercept.  A fun variation of this
    technique is to use it to prevent vehicles from getting on or off the
    highway.  Remember that you must not notice the other driver's
    predicament as s/he jams on the brakes.
    
    16.  The experienced macho driver is capable of eating lunch, driving a
    beer, and having complete sexual relations while performing all the
    above activities simultaneously.  So practice up!
    
    

               <<< Note 679.71 by IE0010::MALING "Mirthquake!" >>>

	Re: .71

>    > I love oppressive heat & humidity

>    Me too, Lorna.  But then I have an excuse.  DC has a reputation for
>    being the oppressive heat and humidity capital of the country (in
>    addition to being some other kind of capital that I can never
>    remember :-)  BTW its pronounced Warshington by natives, *if* you can
>    find one.


	Funny thing, I was going to say that, except for a couple of 
	weeks in August, I don't consider the summer heat in New England 
	particularily oppressive.  Yep, you guessed it, I'm originally 
	from DC as well, although I don't say Warshington.  (In my 
	experience, the people most likely to say Warshington are from
	southern Maryland -- pronounced "Muhrland")



	-Andy

    Actually, the only thing worse then driving in Boston is.....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    being a passenger in a car thats being driven through Boston. Ever feel
    totally helpless and completely left in the hands of a higher power and
    then realize that the higher power gets off on slapstick and pratfalls.
    That's how I feel when I'm being driven through the streets of Boston.
    
    At least when driving you have a fighting chance and a mostly equal
    defensive weapon. :-)
    
    Phil

    re .105 I dunno, _walking_ in Boston is a trip. You need an ego
    large enough to be convinced that 3000 pounds of steel crashing into
    your body won't hurt you. Terrifying if you're a country boy ;-)

Another comment regarding directions in Boston.  People give directions with
regard to a famous Coca-Cola sign.  This sign must really have been something
because everybody remembers where it used to be.  Of course it was long gone
before I came to the area so I don't know where it used to be.  I think what is
needed is a historic marker indicating the spot.

It seems the famous sign was taken down and sold for $1.00.  The buyer arranged
for it to be stored at the Conrail yard and the workers at the yard destroyed
it.  The buyer has now successfully sued Conrail for something like $30,000 for
the sign.

One thing I really appreciate about the area is the way people are willing to
help with directions.  The first week I was here, working in downtown Boston, I
asked a gentleman for directions and he ended up walking a block to make sure I
got pointed in the right direction.

    re. walking in Boston
    
    I find it ever-so-much more pleasant than driving.  But as with
    driving, you've got to pick your battles ... it does require at least
    the the appearance of the confidence of a rhinoceros.
    
    re..90,.94 -sniff-
    
    gee ...., and I thought 13 years of living in Texas & New Mexico
    spending weekends in Monterey [Mexico], making border runs on a lark,
    and spending Christmas in Mexico,D.F. and the trekking through the
    Yucatan for school would give me _some_ credibility of both US-Mex and
    actual Mexican cuisines ... but apparently not.  Leo Romero's place
    is _very_ fine ... _not_ TexMex.
    
    As for shopping for ingredients around here...of course not, I have
    them shipped in from sources outside of Austin and in Laredo ...
    

    read it all, Mike -- quiz next week !

    re .111 Thank heavens, it's neither ! ;-)

    
    
    
    RE: D! and Mexican food
    
    
    Actually, you can't really categorize Mexican food.  Mexico is a very
    big country and it has many regions--which means very different styles
    of cooking.  
    
    
    It's VERY difficult to say "Mexican food is xxxx" because it simply
    isn't true.  We can't even categorize American food into one category
    (take BBQ sauce, for instance...it's different in every part of the 
    country!).
    
    But, I'll agree...there are very few GOOD Mexican resturants in
    NewEngland.  Probably mainly because there is almost a nonexistant
    Mexican population here.
    
    kath

    Salt on the roads in the Winter. It runs cars and runs off into the
    ground and drinking water. YYYUUUCCCCCCHHHHHHHH.
    
    Plows that only plow the roads with their blades 2 inches off the
    surface of the road and don't do side streets until 2 days after the
    storm and either don't do sidewalks at all or wait a week to do them.
    Nashua does it this way.
    
    Phil

    >It's VERY difficult to say "Mexican food is xxxx" because it simply
    >isn't true.  We can't even categorize American food into one category
    >(take BBQ sauce, for instance...it's different in every part of the
    >country!).
    
    Ah, but you'll notice I didn't say "Mexican food *is" something, I said
    what Mexican food *wasn't*, which is tacos, burritos, etc.  (Although
    it is true that TexMex has migrated into norther cities in Mexico such
    as Juarez and Nogales...but then, who would want to go there.  :-P)
    
    Anyway, it isn't true that you can't categorize food just because it
    comes from a big country.  While there is a lot of diversity in, say,
    Chinese food, American food or Mexican food, it is possible to make
    distinctions and broad generalizations.  Mexican food may videly vary
    but it would be hard to mistake for, say, Indian food.  It's just like
    with cultures - while individuals in a culture vary widely, it is
    possible to draw broad-stroke pictures of a culture.
    
    So while it isn't possible to say exactly *what* BBQ sauce is like, it
    is possible to say that BBQ sauce is distinctly American.
    
    -----
    
    E Grace, Boston may not *be* New England, but any discussion of New
    England wouldn't be complete without a discussion of it's largest city,
    and the capital of the state with the largest population.
    
    D!

re: driving

    Maybe I've just missed it, but I haven't yet seen mention of that most
    bizarre road sign peculiar to Massachusetts: "Thickly Settled".

    As anyone who has had to take a written Mass driving test will know
    (but nobody else is likely to suspect!), "Thickly Settled" is really a
    speed limit sign.  I think it's 35, but if you're stopped in one of
    these zones, you could always hedge and tell the officer your speedometer
    said you were only going thickly settled.

	Sharon

                             -< I really hate... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ...people who think Boston *is* Massachusetts, or _worse_, think it
    *is* New England!
    
    
    
    
    grrrrrrrrr
    
    E Grace
    

    
>    So while it isn't possible to say exactly *what* BBQ sauce is like, it
>    is possible to say that BBQ sauce is distinctly American.
    
 
	Bar-b-que sauce  American??????????????????


	Pah


	Heather

E Grace, I share your frustration with people who think Massachusetts
(and even New England) is equal to Boston!

By the way Springtime in New England is nice 'cause it's always
so long in coming, but (IMHO) Springtime in Kentucky is much more
beautiful with lots of flowering trees and bushes. (Right Nancy Smith?!?)

And to all you Mexican and Tex-Mex food experts out there: I feel
sorry for you for having been exposed to The Real Thing. I'm perfectly
happy eating burritos in New England and calling them good Mexican food!!!!

Kathy

    Well, anyone moving from CO to MA is going to notice the
    number of cloudy days here. I made the move in July and
    the cloudy days got to me real quick!  
    
    kath

    As long as we're talking about food...
    
    I grew up thinking that "Chinese Food" meant sweet and sour sauce, bbq
    spare ribs, etc.
    
    Thank goodness for San Francisco!  I learned that there are many
    provinces, each with their own distinct styles of spices and cooking
    techniques.
    
    After I returned to New England, I discovered that the vast majority of
    "Chinese" restaurants serve Polynesian food.  I have since discovered
    some terrific places in Worcester and Arlington that serve Szechwan and
    more inventive dishes!
    
    Judi
    

        re .116, "I think it's 35"
        
        I thought the speed limit in a "Thickly Settled" zone was
        30 mph.
        
        Dan

        
>        I thought the speed limit in a "Thickly Settled" zone was
>        30 mph.
        
 
	And I'd be thinking that it was the name of the town or area!


	Heather

More driving hints:
	-if you're planning to drive somewhere, even to Boston or Cambridge, 
	memorize the names of all the little towns in between.  Some of those 
	infamous rotaries have a nasty habit of labelling the road with only
	the NEXT town in that direction (which direction?  oh, they don't always
	tell you irrelevant stuff like that! :-)  Got lost my first trip taking 
	rt 2 east from Acton to Cambridge when the signs in a rotary informed me
	that I could head to Arlington or Concord, with no mention of which was 
	east of wherevertheheck I was....
	-main roads are distinguisable by almost NEVER having street signs; the
	minor roads intersecting them may be marked, but main road won't be 
	until it intersects something larger.
	-locals may refer to roads by name, rather than route number (see also
	note about naming 'em by town).  Or by a no-longer-used route number, 
	like rt 128 (now a section of rt 95).

-Another place you may find flashing green lights is in front of fire stations; 
normally it's green, but may turn red *suddenly* if the engine need to get out!

		Helen

Oh, and another pronunciation hint: in MA, "B-O-R-O[-U-G-H]" is pronounced "brah", 
as in "Marlbrah" (Marlboro), "Westbrah" (Westborough), etc.  :-)

    Thickly Settled (as far as MA traffic laws) =30mph
    
    a thickly settled area is one in which buildings are less than 300 
    feet apart or an area where there's a lot of businesses.  
    
    Linda, who recently took my motorcycle learner's permit written
    exam and hopes this type of info disappears from her brain soon
    
    

    errrrr, folks?  The idea is *not* to scare potential new residents
    away!
    
    E Grace

Annie - sorry I slighted your Mexican food expertise. I *was* careful to say
"that I knew of" and "that had contributed", since I knew Kathy Gallup was from
AZ and probably qualified.

FWIW Kath is absolutely correct - Mexico has a number of wonderful regional
cuisines, I particularly like sea food in the Vera Cruz style (Red Snapper 
Vera Cruzano in particular is a classic dish), anythin in the Yucatecan style,
and my local *Mexican* restaurant is Michihuatecan with a Oxacan place across
the street.

Annie - what's the address of this "Leo's" place again? I'll check it out - but
if the main things on the menu are combination plates with Chile Colorado,
Chile Verde, Enchiladas, Tacos, Burritos, Taquitos, and Tamales I'm going to
be disappointed in both you and them...

Also FWIW a good Chile Verde is a WONDERFUL dish, and is authentically always
made with pork. It's a not particularly spicy pork stew with tomatillos,
chayote and other green squashes, fresh cilantro, and a small amount of green
chiles. I make a good one...

If anyone is interested in this subject, I definitely recommed Diana Kennedy's
book "The Cuisines of Mexico." Most of the ingredients can be mail ordered.

	-- Charles

�    errrrr, folks?  The idea is *not* to scare potential new residents
�    away!
    
    You'll notice that I haven't said a word!
    
    Ray (off to the Bay)

    > Also FWIW a good Chile Verde is a WONDERFUL dish, and is authentically 
    > always made with pork. 
    
    Yes.
    
    > It's a not particularly spicy pork stew with tomatillos, chayote and 
    > other green squashes, fresh cilantro, and a small amount of green 
    > chiles. I make a good one...
    
    Regional differences again; some areas dispense with all that tomatillo
    and squash business.  Deliciously spicey, entirely from green chile.
    If I could *get* good chiles, I'd make a good one too...;-)
    
    DougO

	And here I thought "Thickly Settled" described the 
	inhabitants of the area...

    I've always lived in NE (Mass.).  I grew up and went to college on the North
    Shore: Gloucester (Glostah), Lynn, Salem.  I've lived for the past 10+ 
    years in the Worcester (Woostah) area: Shrewsbury (Shrewsberry), Westboro
    (Westburro) and Auburn (Aubin).  
    
    First of all, it's tonic "inside" 128 (maybe even 495); soda here in
    central Mass.  Of course, those inside 128 think Worcester is "western"
    Mass. (somewhere in the Berkshires, probably, right next to Springfield
    and New York).  They haven't heard of any other towns west of Framingham.
    
    Now, I don't mind if you make fun of how we talk.  Just do it right! 
    We DO say ah ahs (our Rs), just not where you want us to (this is
    Ameriker, aftah all).  We do NOT talk like the Kennedys.  (It's Hahvid,
    not Havvid.)   And we do NOT sound the twerps on "Murder She Wrote."
    (It's Baawston, not Baaahston.)
    
    Re .86: In this part of NE, it's a shopping caht.
    
    Re "packies":  I just heard that they can now be open on Sundays from
    noon to 8.  Is this true??
    
    
    -Tracy
    

        re .125,
        
>> who recently took my motorcycle learner's permit written
>> exam and hopes this type of info disappears from her brain soon
        
        After which you'll fit right in as a MA driver! :-)
        
        Dan

    >First of all, it's tonic "inside" 128 (maybe even 495); soda here in
    >central Mass.  

    Actually, it's "tonic" in seacoast NH and southern Maine (where I grew
    up). And I believe that we call it tonic because the first popular
    soft-drink in these parts was Moxie, still enjoyed by several of my
    aunts (you will note this word has a U in it and is not pronounced
    "ants"), which called itself a tonic.

    Also, from what I've read, the Connecticut River seems to be the line
    that divides we folks that enunciate words properly from those that
    pronounce the letter R every time that they see it.  

    Helpful Hint in Maine:

    Now, as someone that was born Down East (Yoawk Haa-ba), I'd like to
    caution you that when you go to buy something in Maine, ask for the
    "finest kind" (pronounced as one word, fineskind) of whatever you are
    looking for so that the proprietor will know that you want the best.
    This is especially important if you are buying seafood. 

    I'd like to agree with the folks that brought up the point that Not all
    of New England is like Boston, or for that matter, Massachusetts. In
    fact, Mass plates are considered "foreign" in non-bordering towns of NH
    and all of Maine.


    RE: a few notes where folks have said they have been New Englanders
        for n years since moving here from there:

    I am reminded of the story of local farmer who was conversing with a
    transplanted NJ native. The "new arrival" said that living in the town for
    the past 10 years made him feel like a real New Englander. The farmer
    replied "The cat might sleep in the oven but that don't make her a muffin."
    'Nuff said.

    Deb New England Native 

    Ah, New England.
    
    Can't get a good teriyaki pastrami burrito anywhere.
    
    -roger
    
    

re:79
    
>But

	>Where's the Vernor's Ginger Ale?       
    
    Where it's made, DEEE-troyt, the Motor City.
    
    Probably where it should have stayed.
    
    

    
    This isn't about New England but... with all this talk about
    how phrases are different in New England...
    
    Does anyone else say "shut the light"?  My husband 
    keeps on making fun of me.  Also, if you say that phrase,
    can you tell me where you were from?  Thanks...
    
    To get back to the subject... in my first year of college,
    a friend of mine from West Roxbury (part of Boston) asked me
    if I wanted to go potty!  I thought that was a rather personal
    question!  :-0   (party)
    
    Amy

        "Shut the light" is acceptable, as is "shut the light
        off" or "turn the light off" or "turn the light out".
        
        Western Pennsylvania.
        
        Dan

Re the 10 year story (and the feline muffin): I own a "cottage" near a village 
in England were most of the families arrived before they'd discovered New 
England, and families that arrived in the last 300 years or so are still 
considered "in-comers" - especially if they fought on the wrong side in the War 
of the Roses.

/. Ian .\

>        "Shut the light" is acceptable, as is "shut the light
>        off" or "turn the light off" or "turn the light out".
 
	or - make out the light?

	South western UK.

                with      off
    or - make out the light ?
                 ^         ^

    You have the right of way if your father did...
    
    ed

    The basis of the street signs, odd directions (i.e., turn right where
    the mumble department store *used* to be) and other quirks is the
    assumption is that one has grown up in the area!
    
    Of course, there are no street signs along major streets because they
    were all removed during Colonial times when the British were
    attacking!  (Now I know that local government moves slowly, but this
    one is ridiculous!)
    
    
    Despite all the quirks and eccentricities, New England has its plusses. 
    They may take a while for you to discover, but they're out there!
    
    
    Judi
    

Well, the way we drive in Boston wouldn't be my first choice on
driving manners, but I'll actually come to almost enjoy.  It has it's
own rhythm and feel after a while...

john (resident of Boston for 4 years and living in the area for 15 years)

    ... when I drive in California, ferinstance, I (born & bred & learned
    to drive in Boston area) always feel like a shark amongst goldfish!! 
                                 :-)  :-(

    When I was in California, I was completely shocked that the drivers
    stopped if a pedestrian even *looked* like she might cross the streets.
    I remember my sisters practically dragging me as they reassured me it
    wasn't a trick!
    
    Linda

    Yeah, I do really think the Vernor's folks should get their act
    together and distribute up here - it's such a nuisance my having to beg
    friends to smuggle it up here when they visit!
    
    And as for natives, I lived mostly in the midwest for about 8 years
    (hence I have my R's in most of the right places), so I'm no native. 
    But I do come from seriously stolid Boston Brahmin stock (Winthrops,
    Munroes, Aldens, Lynch's, Mayflower descendent).  Well, at least I've
    got the Blue Blood, even if I don't have the Green Backs!
    
    -Jody
    

    If you're one of the Coloradans with 2.3 guns, you have to get some
    paperwork in Massachusetts otherwise you're liable for a mandatory
    sentence of 1 yer in jail that noone seems to do anyway.
    
    I erred earlier.
    
    You have the right of way of your father did.  Feminist may claim
    either parent depending on which, if any, had the right of way.  If
    your parents never lived in Massachusetts, you do not have the right of
    way.
    
    ed

    Colorado, or at least parts of it, doesn't have a surplus of water,
    right?  In New England, we have lots of water.  But water rights are
    different than in the West.  (don't ask me for details, please :-)

Speaking of strange driving habits, when I was in San Francisco, there
are millions of 4 way stop signs.  And, get this, YOU GET TO GO IN THE
ORDER THAT YOU GOT THERE!!!  So, if you were the first you go first.

VERY STRANGE!

john

    John,
    
    We have that same 4-way stop sign in Chelmsford, where Dalton Road
    crosses Steadman Street....first one at the stop sign goes first..
    Very strange indeed!!
    
    
    -Dotti.

    Dotti -

    Is that the one in Chelmsford center?  I lived in that area for 
    over a year, and I don't recall the four-way stop sign working
    quite that way.  That intersection was a mess, and the stop
    signs were ignored for the most part!  Once one car was going
    through, at least 2-3 cars would stick to it and go through
    as well!

    When I first moved to California, people would get mad at me
    at the four-way stop signs, because I just didn't trust the
    other people to REALLY stop when they were supposed to and
    would wait too long!

    Back to Charles on the West Coast.....

    Have you thought to check with LEGAL SEAFOODS for fastship of
    bluefish????   They do have a mailorder business!

    justme....jacqui

My father was born and raised in Fall River so even though I grew up in northern
Indiana I learned to love coffee ice cream and say Ameriker. Of course I also
was taught to call the refrigerator an ice box and we had a warshing machine.

I loved my trips back east and staying with Joyce in Boston was terrific, but to
leave the west and live there???!!! You people got ripped off when they passed
out the sunny days. And the humidity and thick air nearly killed me. I like 
being able to see for miles and miles and towns should be a long ways from each
other. liesl

>    Have you thought to check with LEGAL SEAFOODS for fastship of
>    bluefish????   They do have a mailorder business!

Nope - haven't tried that yet. I'll ask them how many days out of the water it'd
be by the time it gets to me. I knew they had mail order, but I've found it to
be overpriced - might be worth it for Bluefish though.

	-- Charles

    re:  .152  SCRPIO::LIZBICKI
    
    No, not Chelmsford center.  It's on Steadman St.  And it really works,
    because one time I didn't go in "order" and I got the "finger" from the
    other driver!!!!   Chelmsford center has a 4-way stop, too, but that's
    really a free for all....I shift to 3rd, close my eyes and go like
    h*ll!
    
    -Dotti.

    >When I was in California, I was completely shocked that the drivers
    >stopped if a pedestrian even *looked* like she might cross the streets.
    
    This is because pedestrians always have the right of way in a
    crosswalk, and it is accompanied by a very serious ticket if violated.
    About $64.00, a few years back, and all the pedestrian has to do is
    step into the crosswalk.
    
    L.A. is getting worse in it's driving habits, though, with much more
    cheating on red lights, curb sneaking, and sheer aggression.
    
    And Lucy's Drive-In at the corner of Pico and LaBrea has the best
    green chile burritos in the known universe. 
    
    As my family settled in Mass in 1636, does this make me an automatic
    citizen? Probably come after me for back taxes....
    
    

    and if you think Boston traffic is rough....
    
    Do you have people randomly shooting each other on the freeway????
    
    -roger
    
    

    	RE: 4-way stops
    
    	I don't understand why it seems strange that the first person
    	to a 4-way stop gets to go first.
    
    	Doesn't that make sense. That's the way it has been in Ohio
    	since before I started to drive (before 1963).
    
    	What would be the alternative to the first driver going first?
    
    	Scott (Yeah, I'm a little perplexed)

    re .159
    
    Some drivers are under the impression that they are invisible and have
    all rights to the road.  At a 4-way stop, they tend to go when
    *they're* ready to go, never mind waiting for anyone else!
    
    Judi_who's_*really*_looking_forward_to_Maine!
    

    The 4-way was invented by some nameless small town, no doubt
    in New England, where the town was simply too deleted cheap
    to spring for a real traffic light. 

    Hey, at least they sprung for the 4-way stops, unlike the famous
    intersection in Medford (Malden? never keep them straight) which
    has seven (count them seven) streets coming into a single point
    without so much as a Yield sign on any of them.

    Driving instructors take their students through the intersection
    as a final exam...

    	Outside of many Texas towns, there are no lights or
    	signs. That's not usually a problem in west Texas,
    	because it's so flat. However, I was going to my
    	sister-in-law's wedding back in the '70s and saw
    	one massive crash between a pickup truck and a
    	Porsche. The truck stopped on its top. The impact
    	knocked the engine outta the Porsche. The accident
    	occurred at one of those infamous, no lights, no signs
    	crossroads. Only problem was, the intersection was
    	cut (both ways) through the only hill (I assume) in
    	west Texas. This happened just west of Lubbock and
    	just east of Levelland. Yes, that's the correct name
    	of the town, Levelland.
    
    	Scott

    re: .126 E Grace
    
    > errrrr, folks?  The idea is *not* to scare potential new residents
    > away!
    
    Is *that* what you think is the reason I started this note? :-)
    
    Mary

    For some of us potential new residents, it is too late now to scare us
    away; we are committed to a course of action beyond our control.  :-)
    
    Not only that, but I've been assured by my current manager that I'll be
    released from my current job some time this fiscal year.
    
    -- Mike

RE:    <<< Note 679.156 by PARITY::DDAVIS "Long-cool woman in a black dress" >>>

>    because one time I didn't go in "order" and I got the "finger" from the
>    other driver!!!!   Chelmsford center has a 4-way stop, too, but that's

When I did the same thing in San Fransciso, someone gave me bad vibes!

john

> Title:  sorry charles

> When I did the same thing in San Fransciso, someone gave me bad vibes!

:-)

John, you *know* that you own your own feelings. No one GAVE you those bad vibes
they were part of your karma. You can, however, keep your psychic damage to a
minimum, but only if you sign up for my chakra cleaning course, limited time
offer so act now!

	-- Charles

RE:  .-1

Ha! ;-)  Good one...

john

Not to worry Mike, last time I switched jobs at the center I only had to wait 
5 months for my release date. :*) That's not a joke folks, they are serious 
about release dates out here. liesl

    Liesl, I guess I should feel lucky that they are only talking about 2
    and a half months for me.
    
    Welcome to the Hotel Colorado.  You can check in, but you can't check
    out.  :-)
    
    -- Mike

    
    re: .158 
    
    Well, yeah, we do, unfortunately.  (Have people randomly shooting each
    other on the freeway...)  Southeastern Mass. has been the scene of
    sniper activity.  A 14 year old girl was recently shot and killed; she
    was a basketball player on her school's team.
    
    CQ

    
    
    	Mike,  I don't mean to scare you or anything, but...
    
    		(formfeed for the squeamish ;-)...
    
    
    	We throw footballs harder here in Massachusetts.
    
    					nancy b.
    

    So I hear.  :-)

    
    
    	Mike V., 
    
    	Where did you manage to find good pizza around here?
    
    							nancy b.
    
    	p.s.  sprinkles = jimmies
    
    

    Nancy B., I've been told by a New England emigr� that the pizza is much
    better there.  I have had pizza two places so far, and I don't remember
    the names of either--but they were both very good.
    
    -- Mike

    RE gourmet pizza

    Ciro's. There's one in Chelmsford on Lowell Road, and one in
    Nashua on 101A.

    Bob's in Nashua is the best I ever had.
    
    Phil

    So, I went out to lunch today to get some of that delicious New England
    Mexican food at Taco Bell.  I go to Taco Bell because they have Dr
    Pepper on the menu.  So my friend orders Dr Pepper, and they say
    they're out of Dr Pepper.  So she orders iced tea.  And they had it!
    
    -Mary

    Taco Bell 'New England' ??! And here I've been blaming California
    for that particular abomination ;-)

    >>               I have had pizza two places so far, and I don't remember
    >>the names of either-
    
    
    Bambini's in Marlborough, Dean Park in Shrewsbury
    
    
    
    
    -but they were both very good.
    
    
    Yes, but Mike, we all *know* how easy you are!
    
    
    

    I like Bertucci's in Nashua on 101A.  
    
    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the curbs, or curbstones
    if you prefer, are made of granite, the real stuff...none of that
    macadam that crumbles the first time someone takes a corner too close.
    
    Grins

    I had a friend once that came from some one horse town in Michigan and
    she used to love to ask what my favorite snack was.  It is pop corn but
    she insisted I was saying "porp con".  Ah what did she know, she was
    the one that talked funny.
    

    Best pizza I've had was Monster Pizza Patch in Greenfield, MA
    Second best at Village Pizza House also in Greenfield.  Only thing
    wrong with Monster is they got no beer.  Village Pizza does.
    
    Mary

    
    
    E Grace!
    
    Ain't Dean Park pizza the best!?!?!?!  I go there all the time
    (probably because I live in Shrewsbury)...  
    
    Their Hawaiian is EXCELLENT!  (And Cheap!)
    
    kat

    
    I vote for a mass pizza exodus sometime during the big =wn= June
    weekend.
    

>> I vote for a mass pizza exodus sometime during the big =wn= June weekend.
        
        Great idea!  Where would we all fit? :-)
        
        Dan

I moved to Massachusetts from Southern California two years ago. My striking
first impressions, as I remember them, were:

New England has bigger, more colorful, and more attractive homes. The yards
are tremendous!

You can get half and half with your coffee everywhere (not that yucky white
powder stuff in California).

The women in New England are more dowdy in appearance.

New Englanders seem to be less educated than people in the urban areas of
Southern California. (Lots of natives here use bad grammar--"could have went,"
double negatives, etc.)

Much less emphasis on cars in New England. (I miss those cheap car washes in
California.)

More interest in politics in New England.

More emphasis in New England on owning your own home. It's assumed that if you
don't own your own home, it's because you can't afford to.

The food in New England Mexican restaurants tastes like it comes out of a can.
(It probably does.)

People seem more laid back in New England. (No kidding. That's my impression.)

Vicki Meagher

    
    
    I find New Englanders rude at work.  I am new to the area, and when I
    call a store for directions or other info, I get not-so-kind replies.
    I also find these workers to be short-fused.  I have countless examples
    of rude replies and total blow offs when I don't understand someone's
    initial information.
    

    I hope someone has warned Mike about answering "yes" to "Regular?" when
    ordering coffee.  You will not be answering, "Yes, caffeinated versus
    decaffeinated" but rather "yes, cream and two sugars".  If you want
    your coffee black, best to specify.  :^)  However, if you take it with
    cream and two sugars, "regular" is the shorthand.
    
    Another thing I found in New England were volunteer fire and rescue
    squads, at least in the towns. That's also why you see so many pickup
    trucks with red lights on top.  You'll see lots of pickups in New
    England generally. They're practical for manipulating the back roads,
    and they haul wood, etc.
    
    mdh
    
    
    
    
    
    

    How could I have failed to mention?
    
    			New England Mobile Book Fair
    
    It is not mobile.  You couldn't get it to move with anything less
    than spindizzies.  But it's got more than its fair share of books.
    They are ordered by title within publisher.  Hardbacks are in a
    different room from paperbacks.  But there is a map posted.
    
    It is about 2 miles off the Highland Ave. exit from Route 128, in
    Newton, in towards Boston.
    
    						Ann B.

    re .188, Vicki, Well!  After attending our book discussion group for
    several months, I don't see how you can consider New England women
    "dowdy"!  Just look around you this time!  :-)   Huh!
    
    Lorna
    

    re Dowdy Women
    
    It's hard to be a fashion plate when you have to cope with such odd
    weather...30 degrees in the morning, 60 in the afternoon, mud
    underfoot.
    
    
    Bel Canto pizza in Lexington Center (route 2A) is fantastic!  Their
    whole wheat crust is out of this world.  Too bad they don't deliver to
    Maine...
    
    
    
    Judi
    

    Sorry, just couldn't let this pass:
    
    Bertucci's is a pale, albeit charcoal-smeared, imitation of John's
    Pizzeria in the Village.
    
    Ray

Bel Canto - yes!

As a furriner one thing I noticed and liked about New England was the way
drivers flash their brights at you to tell you there's a policeman waiting
ahead of you on the road.

If I 'brighted' anyone out here they'd either think I was trying to piss them
off or they'd be some conceited BMW owner thinking I was complimenting them on
their choice of car.

	-- Charles (who owns a 325e...)

    Gosh, I thought that was universal...shows what I know.
    
    Something you'll find in New England is political campaigning at the
    town landfill (dump).  After all, where else do you have a captive
    audience on a Saturday midday?  *Everyone* has to go to the dump
    eventually!
    
    :^)
    mdh

    
    It's also possible for a native New Englander to have culture shock
    within New England...
    
    After growing up and going to college in Maine, I moved to Virginia
    for five years, then moved to Massachusetts, then 2 1/2 years ago
    to New Hampshire.  I had to relearn how to order various foods after
    each move... 8^)
    
    Acculturation tip for small towns:  Sign up as a library volunteer --
    you'll find out with very little effort who you can and can't afford to
    mess with if you ever need a building permit.  It helps to keep a chart
    of family relationships, just for reference...
    
    Ron

    One New England custom I think I will never get used to is the funny
    way the natives pronounce "aunt".  :-)
    
    -- Mike

And Mike, just to confuse things... For some of us, our pronunciation
of "aunt" depends on the context. For example, I have several
awnts, but my favorite is Ant Polly.....

Kathy

Ha!  You'd be surprised how quickly you can adapt to this one.  When I
first moved to New England at the tender age of 10, I'd never heard "aunt"
pronounced as anything but "ant".  And when I talked about my "Ant" Ethel or
"Ant" Pat, people would laugh at me, so I learned to say "Ont".

However, this was not problem-free; my Aunt Pat and Aunt Ethel (who have
both lived in the midwest all their lives) no longer knew what I was calling
them.  To this day, I switch unconsciously between "Ant" and "Ont" depending
on who I'm talking to (and whether they've ever laughed at me for pronouncing
it wrong in the past ;-).

	Sharon

    and sometimes it varies among siblings.  My brother says ant, I say
    awnt.  He's crazy in lots of other ways too!

    I've never understood *why* people in some parts of the country
    pronounce aunt as "ant."  It sounds so weird to me, almost as weird as
    the way some people pronounce creek as "crick" or roof "ruff"!
    
    Lorna
    

    Gee, I got no Ants and I got no awnts. I do have a wonderful Aren't
    Gingersnap. (Virginia or Virginya if we pronounce it "our" way)
    
    Phil (whose been real busy but still reading)

    Phil I've added and 'r' to a few words like Warshington in my
    day, having spent 10 years in northern Virginia.  ;-)
    
    I remember when my Kansas cousins came to visit us once and were
    teasing us about saying AHnt (my mom is from Mass and we picked
    up a lot of her speach patterns). My reply? I asked them if
    their mother was an insect. ;-)!
    
    Bonnie

    Thanks Bonnie, for getting the phonetic spelling right.
    In New England, we have AHnts; Onts and AWnts reside
    somewhere on Long Island, I would imagine.
    
    Of course, we have ants here too, little red ones and big
    black ones.  ;-)
    
    Richard

    OK, we now no about the AHnts, Onts, Aunts, and AWnts. But did you know
    that if you go way up to Northern N.H. and Northern Maine. Also
    Northern Cal. Oregon, Washington State and Alaska., you find Ents. you
    gotta be alone or only one companion. You Gotta be up there for
    several days and really in the deep woods, but if your lucky you may,
    in the early morning, just as you wake up hear a faint
    HHHRRUUUMMMHHHRRRROOOOMMMM.
    
    Phil

    Aren't you being a little bit hasty there, Phil?
    
    							Ann B.

    I suppose you're right Ann. One might have to spend a few years in the
    woods before hearing an Ent. I always assumed that the Entwives came
    across to this side of the ocean (North America) when they left
    Middle Earth. I just hope the Ents followed them here.
    
    Phil(who likes Tom Bombadil best after the Ents)
    

Ents frustrate me too much.

You won't find many Ents in the Northeast. Life is just too fast-paced around
here. Perhaps a good influx of Ents would help slow things down just a bit.
:-)

D!

    oh Phil, if you really can find Ents, I want to know where...
    
    we have some trees  around here that we suspect of being Hurons...
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    Bonnie, I have been searching for Ents since I was 12 (1964). That's
    when I 1st discovered them, literaturly, that is. I really think that
    if you spend years in extreme Northern Maine, you may find them. This
    is deep woods. Some areas of Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota may have
    a few, and definitely the Pacific Northwest and Alaska. You gotta find
    Old Forest, Primeval Forest, not much of that left. Mores the pity. But
    they're out there. I know they are. In fact, I believe old Fangorn
    himself is out there still. 
    
    Phil

            <<< Note 679.211 by WMOIS::B_REINKE "bread and roses" >>>

    
    >we have some trees  around here that we suspect of being Hurons...
    
    You mean like the Indian tribe?? Oh! You mean Huorns -- okay.
    
    					{^% andrew %^}
    

    thanks Andrew, spell check doesn't do Tolkien...
    
    ;-)
    
    BJ

    Hi Bonnie (.214),
    
    If ever a place felt like Tolkien-land, it is your property in 
    Royalston (where I was lucky enough to spend some time a couple of
    weekends ago).  Especially that 'doorway' to Middle Earth that Don
    showed us.  ;')
    
    Ro
    

I would like to add my comments to this one...when I moved to Mass. 23
years ago, I had been living in Houston - you can imagine there was a little
cultural shock involved in the move.  I coulda taken anything else in stride,
HOWEVER, the towns in New England have names that are pronounced in a manner 
that does NOT resemble, in any way, shape, or fashion the phonetic 
pronunciation of the spelling of said names.  This isn't a problem for a 
native.  For a young, slightly frightened person who had never been east of
the Mississippi, and WHO COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THE NATIVE LANGUAGE ANYWAY, this
was an insurmountable hurdle.  I didn't know how to find ANYTHING or get
ANYWHERE for at least 6 months after I moved there....and it was 8 months
before I connected WORCESTER with "WOOSTER" or "WOUSTER" or "WUSTER"...and
I was AFRAID to try a FRAPPE for the first year I lived there...I had no idea
what it was, but the MILKSHAKES in that part of the world were SO BAD, I
figured a FRAPPE would be horrible!  Besides, a "BLACK AND WHITE" simply
did not sound appetizing...know what I mean?  The first waitperson I 
encountered informed me in a horrified voice that "iced tea is a summa drink!!"
and I knew I was in trouble.  I got hot tea - served with MILK IN IT
EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T ASK FOR IT - I mean, WHO WOULD ASK FOR MILK IN TEA???!?!
And WHAT was a SUMMA, anyway?

The worst trouble for me was, however, on the job....I worked for a man
named (by spelling) "CLARKE WEGNER" - and called by everyone "CLOCK WAGNA" -
I forwarded several very frustrated callers to facilities on the first day
on the job in Mass...they asked for a clock and I KNEW Software Services
did not provide clocks...Of course, they thought I was playing around with
their minds - have you noticed how hostile New Englanders are first thing
in the morning?  I've always felt it had to do with the Atlantic Ocean...
low pressure or something...and then this very excitable person came up to
me and asked for a GANTT CHOT - I knew what a gantt chart was and I HOPED
that was what he meant, but I wasn't taking any chances as everyone was
yelling at me so I asked him to spell it - he exploded and started yelling,
"CHOT! CHOT! YOU KNOW, SEE AITCH AY AH T!!! I broke into tears and ran into 
the bathroom....he was still yelling when I last looked back at him.

Ah well, we survived - the New Englanders learned to laugh at me when I
talked and I learned to understand their unique twist on the native language...
and I do miss the fall season to this day...even though I've not lived there
in 19 years.  Oh, and the apples - crisp and sweet with a surprising taste
of wine and magic in their perfume.  And even the snow - well, maybe a little
of the snow - that first morning after a snow fall when I got up real early
before it had been ruined by tires and feet - then I miss it.

    <--------
            |- Funniest piece I have read in a *LONG* time and its true...
    ................Us poor Texans!
    
    Dave

G'day,
Re -.a_couple
    
> The first waitperson I 
>encountered informed me in a horrified voice that "iced tea is a summa drink!!"
>and I knew I was in trouble.  I got hot tea - served with MILK IN IT
>EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T ASK FOR IT - I mean, WHO WOULD ASK FOR MILK IN TEA???!?!
    
    Just about any Brit (Limey, Pom, Englander, British person) you may
    care to ask....
    
    And iced tea YUKK! why would _anyone_ drink it that way??? Hot with
    lemon in summer, possibly..... but _iced_ - ***NOWAY***
    
    I understand why they tipped all the tea into Bahstin harboUr! Having
    _actually_ tasted iced tea, I wanted to do the same! and as for instant
    tea �POWDER? the end of the world _must_ be nigh!
    
    
    
    
    8-)
    
    
    derek
    ps
    Frappes are real tasty. 
    
    
    

    Now that I have spent four months in New England (I can't believe that
    much time has passed already), I have accumulated quite a bit of
    information about the ways in which New England culture differs from
    what I am used to.  I have been meaning to write a summary of what that
    I have encountered, but other things kept getting in the way, and I
    just never found (or devoted) the time to it. So, rather than writing a
    long note that summarized all of my experiences of culture shock, I
    decided instead to write a note here and there as I think of something.

    First of all, I just wanted to mention that nobody told me when I moved
    here that you people have HURRICANES!!!!!!!!!!

    Ahem.  There, now that I have gotten that off my chest, I wanted to
    mention one example of New England culture that I have been noticing
    recently.  I am referring to a feature of New England speech, where
    "yup" means "you're welcome".  I have run into quite a few instances
    where, if I say "thank you" to some one, they respond with the word
    "yup".  I really don't recall hearing people respond that way in other
    parts of the country (except, come to think of it, a friend of mine
    who was raised in New England).  Maybe people say this elsewhere, but
    it never seemed to strike me the way it has here.  To my Midwestern
    ears, this at first sounded brusque, and even rude, almost a kind of
    brush off in response to someone else's politeness.  However, I have
    come to assume that this is just a local way of saying "You're welcome"
    that involves fewer syllables, with no rudeness implied, although I
    have to admit that it still sounds harsh to my Heartland sensibilities. 
    But I am sure I'll get used to it.

    More examples of culture shock will be forthcoming.

    -- Mike

    >I am referring to a feature of New England speech, where
    >    "yup" means "you're welcome"
    
    No, no, yp doesn't mean "you're welcome".  "Yup" is an acknowledgement
    of your "thankyou", but it does not carry the meaning of "you are
    *welcome*".  Since when have New Englanders been *welcoming*??? 
    "You're welcome" in response to "thank you" is sort of "by your
    existence, you have right for good things to happen to you" whereas
    "yup" translates more into "Yes, see how I have gone out of my way to
    do this service for *you*?  I'm glad to see you are appropriately
    grateful."
    
    D!

    Mike,  the reason we never mentioned hurricanes was because we're
    usually preoccupied with tornadoes and blizzards.
    
    Jim

    But's its not really a hurricane Mike.  I heard on the news this
    morning.
    
    "Top stories in the news today - Gorbachov is ousted in a coop and
    president Bob is bearing down on New England."  :-)
    
    Mary
    

    What I think (or what struck me as rude), was the response
    given by many N.E.'ers to Hello....They would respond, 
    "Hello, yourself".  Hit me as being a brush-off....
    
    HRH

    
    I'm at the end of 9 days in New England and the only response
    (at ALL) that I've gotten from my Hello's was from the
    woman at the cash register in PK3 cafeteria.
    
    No one else would even look me in the eye.
    
    :-(
    Pat
    and people wonder why I love Seattle  :-)
    

    Remember, Pat, it' sjust that they are being *polite* by not invading
    your personal space.
    
    spend a few years here, and you will start to feel uncomfortable in
    those "warmer" places where people (*ick*) meet your eyes on the
    streets.  :-)
    
    D!, displaced southwesterner
    

    
    
    D!
    
    Having lived near NYC for way too long, the coldness
    on the streets doesn't surprise me.  Inside DEC buildings,
    it does.
    
    I ask no one how they are, I just smile.  It's sad
    that no one can muster a smile back.
    
    Maybe it's related to the sadness of so many DECcies leaving?
    
    Pat
    

re:   <<< Note 679.224 by DECWET::PCATTOLICO "DoesYourVisionIncludeEveryone?" >>>
 >>                       -< no response to my hello's! >-

Must be you didn't make it to Vermont!! :-)

Jenna    

    I keep wondering about all this New Englanders and New Yorkers not
    smiling business.
    
    Far be it from me to challenge the validity of anyone else's
    experience, but I don't get.
    
    Everywhere I go, people smile at me ... perfect strangers, people on
    the T, people in line at the market ...
    
    People say 'hi, how are you?' 'good morning' 'great evening isn't it?'
    
    I don't know _any_ of these people.
    
      Annie

 If you were a guy, I'd say your fly was down. :-)

 All kidding aside, I think it's because when you are used to _everybody_
smiling at you, going to a place where many do but most don't is a little
off putting...

 The Doctah

    
    	I went to Prince Edward Island for vacation this summer.  And the
    	people there are so extraordinarily friendly that I went into
    	NE culture shock when I got home!
    
    	JJ
    

    yes, Doctah, but that's just my point:
    
    when I lived in Scotland everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    when I lived in Illinois everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    when I lived in New York City everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    when I lived in Portugal everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    when I lived in Texas everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    when I lived in Washington, DC everyone smiled and said, 'hi' to me
    and now I live in New England everyone smiles and said, 'hi' to me
    
    I'm not making this up and all empirical evidence points to my sharing
    the same planet with the rest of you.
    
    But I'm beginning to wonder ...
    
      Annie

    When my sister was visiting, her, my other sister, my niece
    and I went to see the 'Sox play at Fenway.  We decided to
    take the train in, and then take the green line in.
    When my sister and I get together, it's yack, yack, yack non-
    stop.  And, we get really goofy (Goofy?  Who, me? nah! (-; )
    So, we started telling jokes on the T, engaging those around
    us in conversation, tapping on the windows and waving to people
    standing on the platform....We had those around us laughing and
    talking to us, and, in general, made the long faces and the trip
    a little less "boring".
    
    It's amazing what a smile and a joke will do...they are contagious!
    
    HRH

    I don't get it.  I consider myself to be a *real* New Englander.
    
    hmmmmmmmm
    
    
    
    	OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    		I'M COLD AND UNFRIENDLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Geez, between this, and not being a *real* woman, I think I'll just go
    find a cave somewhere.
    
    E Grace

    Re .232
    
    In Texas, everyone says Hi y'all!   (-8
    
    
    	HRH

    Phew!  It's o.k. for me to be the way I am, as I'm 
    not a "Real" New Englander!
    
    
    	HRH  (misplaced California woman longing for Texas livin')

    re.235
    
    only at the State Fair, where they're require to say it by law, and in
    towns of less than 5,000 people [of which there are many].
    
    Other than that, it's pretty much just plain 'hi!' unless greeting more
    than one known person in which case the 'y'all' is added to save time.
    
    'y'all' is, of course the _only_ acceptable second person pronoun,
    singular or plural; it's just that it's considered extremely unmannerly
    to say the equivalent of 'hi, you' to a lone woman, whereas 'hi,
    <guys,ladies,etc>' perfectly fine.
    
      Annie

    Required to say it by law?  Why?
    
    HRH

    I _was_ being silly and somewhat ironic, but it is amazing how very,
    _very_ thick the accents become during the Fair.
    
    Even investment bankers who grew up in Highland Park and got a manicure
    every week from the age of 10 onward behave like they grew up in Tom
    Greene County mustering new calves and stuff and stuff.
    
    It's all a lark.

    I believe that there is a bell curve of "friendliness" among
    populations.  And that curve shifts based on geography.  In general,
    more people respond to "friendly" than initiate "friendly" -- which may
    explain the experiences of Annie and E, as I perceive them both to be
    "friendly" initiators, and at the far end of the bell curve in the
    positive direction at that.  
    
    Where "very friendly" is on the right hand side of the curve, I believe
    rural New Englanders have a further left "top" of the bell (can you
    tell I didn't do well in Stat? :-) ) than Mid-Westerners.  Californians
    probably have the furthest right "top" of the bell.  City folks
    generally will be further left than suburbanites, at least in down
    town areas.  (I don't know about neighborhoods, since I've never been
    in them for any length of time.)
    
    New Englanders generally have a larger "personal space" zone than other
    regions of the country, and this can also be perceived as being "cold",
    even with smiles and hellos and quite sincere interest on the part of
    the New Englander.
    
    Alison

I believe that y'all is singular and that "all y'all" is plural. ;*) liesl

>I believe that y'all is singular and that "all y'all" is plural. ;*) liesl

	That's how it is in Maryland, too.  (at least,  where I grew up)



	*A*

    When I lived in Texas they said "Howdy"
    
    Mary

more adventures of the misplaced Southwesterner in New England:

friendliness:

actually, for the first 6 months I was in New England, I thought everyone
was MAD at me for something.  It wasn't that they didn't address me, it
was the tone of voice, and the direct manner in which they approached
me that was confusing.  I later realized that the man who lived next door
to me and who, upon meeting me outside one summer morning, said, sans
preamble, "Use my mower!" was OFFERING me the use of his mower, not
ordering me to mow my lawn NOW!  I was used to a more "roundabout"
approach.  For the record, I was so intimidated by the order to use
his mower, that I DID...right then...even though I had purchased my own
the day before.  In time, I learned that the New Englander, born and
raised, was/is the most loyal of creatures on the face of this earth.
Once you have earned their trust and friendship, they are there for
you, whenever you need them. 

language misinterpretations:

as earlier pointed out, I had some difficulty with the language and
accents....however, after 6 months of living there, I thought I had it
wired.  Then one day my "steady date" walked up to me and said, "Wanna
go to the potty with me?"  Being from a small town in the southwest,
I was, at first, simply confused....did people actually DO that together
in this part of the world?....I mean, at the very least, wouldn't you
need to be "intimate" first?...you have to understand, in the previous
six months I had run into alot of very different rules for getting
along in this world...just prior to my opening my mouth and embarassing
myself beyond repair, Bob clarified his purpose by saying, "Y'know,
Vinnie's potty next Saturday night".  With great relief, I said I was
delighted to go to Vinnie's party.  What a relief!  I had been trying
to figure out how to say that where I came from folks simply didn't DO 
that with other people....and not make Bob mad.  Needless to say, had 
I announced this to Bob, he might have had difficulty determining just
how people in New Mexico had a party if they never partied WITH anyone.

Memories of my youth...what fun.

    going to the potty....  I can't stop laughing!
    
    welcome to New England!  glad you came!
    
    Sara
    

    For some strange reason, people are rushing to my cube to find out
    *what* is going on! 
    
    		It's alright folks!  just chortling hysterically!
    
    E Grace

Me too!  chortle-chortle!!

:-D!!!

Nanci