Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    Dear Anon,

    I'm sorry, but I can't flesh this reply out.  It's pretty much a 
    cut-and-dried situation to me.  

    I think you've answered your own question.  You said:

    > I wouldn't sleep in the same bed with a man I wasn't involved 
    > with especially wouldn't my friend's.
 
    You wouldn't, he would (and did).  You don't have the same "outlook
    on life".  This is not good.

    You said you "agreed to a committment".  I read that to mean "no 
    having sex with someone else".  Is that right?  Do you believe that
    "nothing happened"?  If you're inclined to allow for mistakes, what
    do you need from him to trust him again?

    CQ    

    
    
    I think the real question here is trust.
    
    I've slept in the same bed with many a man and had it be purely
    platonic.  Perhaps this is what happened, perhaps it isn't.
    
    I can fully understand viewing the situation from the outside, though,
    and being unsure and uneasy.
    
    The real question is, how much can you trust either/both of them?
    
    And that question is something only YOU can answer.
    
    
    kathy

    
    Yup.  Trust is the key.  I think at least it's important she TOLD you. 
    At least you KNOW.  Finding out later is worse....I know....I've been
    there.  My first reaction on finding out was to utterly blame *her*
    (for some reason he had to be above reproach in my mind or the trust
    could not have been rebuilt between us - which it eventually but not
    completely was).....but PLEASE try to keep clear in your mind that it
    takes two to tango and they share the responsibility for what happened
    equally.
    
    I'd say talk to them about it, and while you're listening, hear the wee
    voices in the back of your mind.  If possible, talk to them about it
    together.  See how they feel about each other, and how they feel about
    you.  Clarify your feelings to them on the situation and look for some
    support and some healing - clarify why you feel what they did was not
    good for your relationship with him (some people think nonmonogamy is
    cool, maybe he's one of them.....if so - clarify to him you're not
    interested in that kind of relationship if indeed yo're not)....
    
    good luck,
    
    -Jody

    re .0, I think the worst aspect of this situation is that after he
    invited you to attend the wedding with him, he turned around and
    decided to invite Kathy instead.  It seems to me that he did this in
    retaliation, to get back at you because you were
    going to be going to a wedding with another man yourself. 
    
    I think this was wrong, as well as small-minded of him.  I think he has
    wasted no time in showing you a vindictive side.  He has also shown
    that he doesn't always feel comfortable in speaking up about his true
    feelings.  If he felt that, in view of your commitment to him, you
    should now not go to the wedding with the other guy, he should have
    told you so up front.
    
    On the other hand, perhaps you shouldn't have gone to the wedding with
    the other guy.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  It's one of those
    issues where, as long as people trust each other, it should be an okay
    thing to do.  But, I think we still have to recognize human nature and
    sometimes people feel vulnerable in the beginning of relationships,
    especially if they've been hurt before.
    
    I guess my opinion is that *maybe* you shouldn't have gone to the
    wedding with the other guy, but even if you did it was still wrong for
    him to ask Kathy to the wedding just to get back at you.  If people
    continue to do hurtful things in retaliation, where can it lead to?  I
    would think *not* a happy relationship, for one thing.
    
    Lorna
    

re .4 - I agree - the part of the situation I'd be peeved about isn't
whether or not he shared a hotel room/bed with someone else (if it
was platonic) but rather that he does seem to have this vindictive side.
There's nothing wrong with his having shared a bed with your friend - 
they're friends, right?

    I think none of us knows enough to really give a valid opinion.  I
    don't necessarily think he asked Kathy to be vindictive...unless it was
    on a different weekend than the wedding you went to..(did I miss
    something). Anyway, I think kathy(?) .2 said it all.  Do YOU believe
    that it was an emregency (i.e. drunken crash) and that nothing
    happened? I personally have slept in the same bed with a man where that
    was true.  I have also slept (or started to) in a bed with a man who
    said "okay, no problem" (i.e. no sex) but then (respecting me) said "I
    can't take this.." and got up to sleep in the living room.  At least he
    was honest! It gets down to what YOU believe..you know them best.
    If nothing happened, let it pass.
    
    Just my $0.02
    
    Laf
    

    
    
    I know it may seem as though something may have happened between them.
    You must ask her honestly and accept her answer for what it is worth.
    
    I can remember when I first started dating John we would often sleep 
    in the same bed because it was late and we did not want to drive one
    of us home.  Now for three or four months we did nothing but sleep.
    We had alot of people say that we were not telling the truth.  So
    it is a common misconception that people believe.
    
    I have also on occasion in college shared a bed with my best friend
    who happens to be a guy.  We never ever had any sexual relations.
    Yet a few folks refused to believe this merely due to their perception
    of the situation.  It made more sense to us to share a bed than risk
    an accident driving home while under the influence.
    
    All I can say is trust your instincts.  If you feel there is something
    between them that you can not accept then deal with that in a manner
    that you can live with.  But please do not just assume that because
    they shared a bed that they had any sexual relations. 
    
    Michele

    Perhaps you've noticed that we all have our own themes in notes files,
    repeated over and over.  One of mine is to say "look to your personal
    past.  Look at what was restimulated."
    
    This is a very young relationship.  And neither of you entered it with
    blank slates.  One of the primary things we have to work out is if
    people can be trusted.  And do we really mean by that, "can they be
    trusted to be totally reliable and never, never to hurt me?"  How much
    better it would be to believe that we might be hurt, but we can grow
    and still trust the same person.  Who, really, is completely reliable
    except our dream mother-figure.
    
    I see in this situation an opportunity for both of you to grow in
    honesty and commitment.  Where does his probable "vindictiveness" come
    from?  Where does both of your belief that once a commitment is made,
    there will be no challenges to that commitment?  Where have you felt
    betrayal in the past?
    
    Briana

If Dave did spend the night with Kathy, I don't understand why Kathy 
was the one who told you about the event.  The potential for something
like this upsetting you is real, and Dave knew that.  If nothing 
happened that night, why didn't Dave tell you--right away--that they
had shared a room together?  If something did happen, still, why 
didn't Dave tell you--right away?

I think the most important question you need to ask yourself is:
If something did happen, do Dave and I have the kind of relationship
that would allow him to tell me the truth?  

People tell lies for many different reasons.  Not saying anything at
all can be a lie.  I've learned the most common reason people lie, 
either by commission or omission, is that they themselves can't deal
with their truth.  

In any relationship open communication is a tough thing to achieve.  
Trust is truth.  And truth can only be exposed when the benefits of 
exposing truth outweigh the consequences.  (Ah!!  And when you're
in a relationship where two of you have established this level of
trust, it's *wonderful*!  It's a safe place.  A place where both of
you grow because there's no fear of rejection.)

Maybe something did happen that night.  Maybe Dave is afraid to tell 
you what happened because he's afraid you'll leave him.  Or maybe he
fears it will ruin your friendship with Kathy.  Only Dave knows what
his fears of telling the truth are.  

If you think you have the sort of relationship that allows Dave to tell 
you the truth, he probably did.  However, *you* are still working through
the hurt you feel about the incident.  You should go to Dave, and talk 
with him about your feelings.  He should be able to help you accept the
history of events, and learn to be more careful of what hurts you/him.  

If you don't think you have the sort of relationship that allows Dave
to tell you the truth, the problems in your relationship are greater
than his having spent the night with another woman.  Your relationship
lacks open communication, a major component of trust.  Dave's having
spent the night with another woman, by the way, does not mean this isn't
the right relationship for both of you.  If should work on getting Dave
to talk to you, find out why he was motivated to share a bed with Kathy,
*talk* about what happened, and try to get Dave to *share* his feelings
about the incident.  This would be a big step towards a relationship
that is based on open communication, and in turn the incident would bring 
the two of you closer.

If Dave doesn't seem to respond to discussing things with you, you'll
need to ask yourself if this relationship is really meeting your needs, 
and take things from that point.

-jc

    

    I think a lot of good points have been raised.  While the facts are
    important, it's also important how you feel about what happened.  If
    you're bothered by it, you need to work through your feelings or they
    will crop up later to haunt you.  Talk with him.  If you're not satis-
    fied, then only you can decide what to do.  But I agree with the
    earlier reply that said to trust your instincts.  If your inner voice
    is uneasy, then you probably still have a problem.
    
    Karen.