Conference turris::womannotes-v3

My partner gave up sugar 5 or 6 six years ago because
she experienced a lot of the symptoms you describe.

There's a book out called _Sugar Blues_ that should answer
a lot of your questions. I can't remember who the author is, but
it's a really interesting book and provides lots of motivation to
stop the sugar intake. It's available in paperback at lots of book
stores. It shouldn't be difficult to find.....

Sometimes I wonder if sugar impacts my bouts with depression.
I'm not completely sure I want to find out....

Good luck,

Kathy

    I stopped eating sugar 5 years ago.  Now I only eat foods that have
    sugar as the fifth or lower ingredient.
    
    If you look at OA's literature, it really addresses what you are
    talking about.  Sugar *is* a mood altering substance.
    
    The man I used to live with is Hypoglycemic.  I did a lot of research 
    on the subject of sugar and what it does to your body, and would be
    happy to lend you any of a number of books I have on the subject. 
    There *are* medical (physical) reasons for the abject depression you
    describe.  When you spike your body's blood sugar level, the pancreas
    panics, and reacts with a tremendous flood of insulin.  Insulin _must_
    be used once it is excreted into the system, so when all the sugar you
    just put into yourself is dealt with, the remaining insulin goes to 
    work on any other sugars it can find.  This makes your blood sugar
    level plummet, which causes the depression.
    
    There are really complex physiological actions that go on with all of
    this, so, as I said, please do not hesitate to contact me if you would
    like to borrow any of the books.
    
    dtn 297-5241
    e-mail - see above
    
    E Grace

    William Dufty, _Sugar Blues_, Warner Books, New York, 1975.
    
    DougO

Basically (Chemists and Margaret Thatcher can correct me)

Eating sugar in the form of an apple is 'better for you' because :-

The sugar gets released into the body more slowly (as you 
digest the apple). 

Fruit Sugar is less chemically complex, more easily metabolised
and dealt with by the body.

Artificially produced sugars (sucrose) cause an increase in
insulin which neutralises the excess sugar in the blood,
which once the sugar has gone produces the sugar 'low'.

Ican't remember exactly the different way the body deals with fruit
and sucrose type sugars BUT !

Eat apples, not chocolate !.


munch munch
Jane 

		Also try reading The_Hidden_Addiction by Janice Phellips

	She is an MD in Seattle, that treats drug/sugar addiction with
	the use of vitamins....  it works (from personal experience)
	and she is good.  She has several theories about addictions to
	drugs and sugar.

		Angeline

    Another thought:
    
    I am scared to go to OA (Overeater's Anonymous) because they tell you
    to give up sugar and I don't *want* to give up sugar.
    
    That's the real problem with this thing is that I'm not sure I really
    want to give it up.  I just want to get rid of the *downs*.
    
    *sigh*
    
    God, I want a candy bar SO BAD right now!!!
    
    D!

    
    I toowas diagnosed as hypoglycemic several years ago. I was too
    immature to attempt giving up sugar at that point, but after a while, I
    worked hard at eating less sweets. (Unfortunately, I'm now in a group
    that serves them regularly, and I'm moving back toward candy bars and
    desserts!)
    
    See how your body likes starches! Try to eat snack foods, like chips,
    instead of candy bars. Or if you crave something sweet, go for raisins,
    or trail mix.
    
    I've found that when it comes to body metabolism, you can run little
    experiments on your body in 3 day spurts. Just watch what you eat, and
    see when the problem kicks in. Then purge: try to avoid that kind of
    thing for 3 days, see if the problem evens out. Then test different
    kinds of foods to see what will cause the problem.
    
    Admittedly, its a pain in the butt, but face it, those mood swings are
    a bigger pain in the butt... I know mine are!

             
    	Some people require a nuturally high balance of sugar and
    	other simple carbohydrates in their diet.
    
    	I am one. I notice that my sugar intake is my higher than other
    	people I am with. But if I drop my carbohydrate (sugar) intake, my
    	overall energy level nose dives. I simply require a high
    	carbohydrate intake. If you get your required vitamins, protien,
    	etc, from your diet, eating sugar is no more 'bad' for you than
    	receiving the eqaul amounts of 'sugar' in eating an apple. 
    
    	A roommate of mine was the opposite. A tiniest amount of sugar (I
    	am talking only one *half* a piece of candy) would make him
    	hyperactive and then crash to the point where he would literally
    	crash on the couch and sleep there until the sugar crash went away.
    
    	Sugar and carbohydrates are not universally 'bad' for you, that is
    	one the greatest nutritional myths people believe. You may have a
    	naturally need for higher carbohydrate intake than most.
    
    	-Erik 

    
    I agree with Lauren, instead of the sugar, try some carbohydrates!!!
    
    Carbohydrates provide you with energy, but it is easier for the body
    to break them down, and they are actually healthy.
    
    I became a carbo freak about 2 years ago when I went on a diet, I found
    it the hardest to stay within the limits for breads.  I too have
    problems with needing more and more sugar, but if I stay away from it
    for a while, I lose the craving.
    
    I could eat all sorts of breads, and crackers, and pastas until I
    burst.
    
    Lisa

    First, D! we love you even if you are a junkie. Second, 'addict'
    is a very loaded word. Try thinking of yourself as 'one who
    experiences mood swings when she consumes sugar." Third, ask 
    yourself if you're going to let some silly chemical control _you_?
    Fat chance, right ? Now all you have to do is determine your 
    limits and stick within them. 

	I definitely get sugar cravings if there wasn't enough sugar in my
lunch.  I can get it by substituting fruit, but it's not quite as satisfying.
Sometimes I go for an afternoon cup of coffee if I'm trying not to have a
cookie (or ice cream at break.)

	Last night, I went on a massive sugar binge (it's tough when you're
handing out candy to little kids not to stick you hand in the bowl yourself)
and by 8:00 pm I was in the middle of a severe sugar crash and just wanted
to sleep.

	Interestingly enough, I just came back from a week's vacation during
which I exercised more than usual, drank a little more beer than usual, and 
ate next to no dessert. (Did have breakfast buffet in the hotel though - fruit
and not-very-sweet rolls at breakfast.)

	I can go for long periods of not having cookies & candy in the house,
but when I do, I have a hard time keeping them for any length of time.


						--D

    These are all nits, and I really understood what everyone has been
    trying to say, okay?
    
    Sugar is a carbohydrate.  It is a simple, easily digested carbohydrate.
    Potatoes, pasta, etc. are also carbohydrates, but they are complex
    carbohydrates.
    
    I shouldn't write "sugar is...", because there are many sugars in
    the world.
    
    Table sugar is sucrose.  Fruit sugar is fructose.  Sucrose is a
    12-carbon sugar that breaks down into glucose, a 6-carbon sugar.
    Honey (or fructose, I forget) is an 11-carbon sugar.  It breaks
    down into glucose and something else.
    
    Table sugar is not un-natural, or manufactured.  It is made by
    sugar cane and sugar beets.  It IS processed to a fare-thee-well,
    but the result is a very pure, natural product.  It is just one
    that we did not evolve to cope with.
    
    The above sugars (and more) are digestable and affect our metabolisms
    because they are R-sugars.  If they were L-sugars, we couldn't get
    calories out of them -- but I have *no* idea what they would do to
    our insulin or behavior or nuthin'.
    
    							Ann B.

    >Sugar and carbohydrates are not universally 'bad' for you, that is
    >one the greatest nutritional myths people believe. You may have
    >a naturally need for higher carbohydrate intake than most.
    
    But what you describe is a variation in energy. I could deal with that
    - I have always recognized sugar's effect on energy level.  But the
    problem for me is *emotions*, not energy level.   With sugar, I am
    elated (sometimes when I shouldn't be) and without it, I am depressed
    (almost always when I shouldn't be.)  When I am not in the high-crash
    cycle at all, and east a low-to-moderate amount of sugar, I am fine...I
    have plenty of energy and no mood swings.  The mood swings are a result
    of the binging behavior.  I know that, but I can't stop.  (Which is why
    I call it an addiction.)
    
    I mean, it's not a "need for higher carbohydrate intake" that makes me
    go to the convenience store, buy a box of oreos, a pint of Ben and
    Jerries, a candy bar, twinkies and a Hostess Fruit Pie, come home, and
    devour it all inhalf an hour, till I can't force any more sugar into my
    face.
    
    Actually I probably have *low* need for carbohydrate intake.  Like your
    roommate, it takes very little sugar for me to *fly* (or the subsequent
    crash.)
    
    Anyone know how I can contact OA?
    
    D!

	I'll recommend the book, _Sugar Blues_, too.  EXCELLENT information
	on Sugar.


	I'm *allergic* to sugar.  I don't have HIGHS and lows like a
	lot of people do, but if I eat large amounts of sugar, I have
	TREMENDOUS headaches.

	But, if I eat sugar on a continual basis, in decent amounts, my
	body creates a tolerance to it, and the headaches become very
	dull--almost non-existant.

	If I then decide to remove sugar from my diet (as much as possible)
	I go into withdrawals--migraines, the shakes, etc for a few days
	until my boys gets rid of it.




	kath

    Please see also:
    
    womannotes-V2
    741 - what makes sugar that important
    
    holistic
    250 - confessions of a sugar junkie
    476 - natural sweeteners for PMS diet (discusses types of sweeteners)
    
    
    -Jody
    
    p.s.  numbers for OA include (603?)434-7578 for NH, (508)875-0001 for
    metrowest MA.

    You may  also  have  to  avoid  artificial  sweeteners (sacharine,
    nutrasweet), because they can cause you to produce insulin leading
    to a classic sugar crash without having the high first.

    Mice whose  water was laced with sacharine gained more weight than
    mice whose water was laced with sugar.

--David

    A chicken and egg question -- is the sugar causing the depression,
    or is the depression causing the craving?  
    
    When I get into a bout of depression, I get food cravings the way
    you describe, and I feel better when I eat, and then I go into a
    real low -- only it doesn't matter what kind of food it is as long
    as there's food in my mouth.  In fact, sugar is often less
    effective than something very rich, like escargot or cheesecake.
    
    According to the therapist I worked with last time, this isn't
    necessarily even an eating disorder.  Food tastes good and it
    feels good in the stomach, so eating is a pleasurable experience. 
    And when a person's depressed, they're looking for things that
    make them feel better for a while.  
    
    When I come out of the depression, the longing for food ceases,
    too -- although it's usually the last symptom to go away.  
    
    I don't know whether you think this might apply to you, but if you
    think it might, you might have better luck dealing with whatever
    underlying rage, fear, anger, or other emotion is causing the
    depression rather than attacking the sugar directly.
    
    --bonnie

Just a couple of nits.

1.  Yes, sugar (that's "sugar" as in sucrose) IS bad for you.  It is what is 
    called a "negative nutrient".  This is because it not only has no 
    nutritive value, the body is also required to use stored nutrients to 
    deal with it.

2.  The recommended and favored food choice for hypoglycemics that feel they
    need some sugar is not complex carbohydrates, it is protein.

E Grace

    I recognized a sugar addiction in myself a few months back - it was
    when I was driving along the Mass.Pike eating Mrs.Fields brownies, the
    ones with peanut butter type frosting...
    
    Didn't do much about it, just recognized it was there.  Had a candy bar
    every afternoon.
    
    Two weeks ago, I started eating exclusively vegetarian and taking
    vitamins (a well-balanced combination that addresses what my particular
    metabolism needs).  Guess what?  NO craving for sugar.  Absolutely
    none. No "3:00 low".  No mood swings from eating candy. None of it.  I
    didn't think it was possible, but believe me, I'm not going off this
    eating program for anything.
    
    I've also read that eating too much red meat will do the same things to
    your metabolism as eating sugar, and that the one habit will "feed" the
    other.
    
    Hope this is of some help.
    
    Regards,
    Lynn
    
    Don't know if it will work for you, but it's sure working for me.

    >Two weeks ago, I started eating exclusively vegetarian and taking
    >vitamins (a well-balanced combination that addresses what my particular
    >metabolism needs).
    
    Do you still eat sugar?
    
    D!

    Reading this note makes me want a candy bar.
    
    Bruce

    D!
    
    I too have experienced mood alterations and sugar cravings.  For me
    cafeine seems to exaggerate the effect of the sugar.  Cutting down on
    cafeine helped me.  (There is cafeine in chocolate.)  As someone else
    suggested it would be a good idea for you to see a doctor and get a
    glucose tolerance test.
    
    Mike Z's description in .23 explains the mood changing effects of
    sugar quite well.  Depletion of tryptophan has been demonstrated to
    cause depression.  And serotonin is one of the neurotransmitters in
    the brain that anti-depressant drugs act on.
    
    Mary