Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I oppose having a war pushed on me by somebody who wants what I
    have. I will fight to keep what is mine. As I have stated else-
    where, I oppose the threat of or initiation of hostilities. I
    differentiate between those who initiate violence and those who
    retaliate. I think it is not only right but imperative that those
    who initiate force be stopped, with coutervailing force if
    necessary. 
    
    The whole purpose of civilization is to eliminate the initiation
    of force from relationships. Those who would oppose war and
    strife should (IMO) make it clear that the initiation of force,
    not 'force' as such, is wrong, and seek to end it. To seek the
    less concise goal of ending _all_ violence is to muddle the
    moral difference between initiation of force and retaliation.
        

    eagles
    
    could you say the same thing without being offensive?
    
    thanks
    
    Bonnie J
    comod

The following military marching chant [with a couple of asterisks 
substituted by me] is quoted in A Natural History of the Senses, by Diane
Ackerman (1990), with the following comment: 

"Carol Burke, a folklorist researching military marching chants, sent me 
this typical one. Most of them, she informs me, are equally crude, 
repetitive, and insulting."


	Rich girl uses Vaseline
	Poor girl uses lard
	But Lulu uses axle grease
	And bangs 'em twice as hard

	Bang, bang Lulu
	Bang away all day
	Bang, bang Lulu
	Who ya gonna bang today?

	Rich girl uses tampons
	Poor girl uses rags
	But Lulu's c*nt's so g*dd*m big
	She uses burlap bags.

	Bang, bang Lulu
	Bang away all day, etc.

    re .5, I don't think it's any better than the one in .4.
    They're both sexist and insulting.
    
    Lorna
    

	"Slay man and woman, infant and suckling."

	"Happy shall be he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against 
	the stones."

	"Their children shall also be dashed to pieces before their eyes; 
	their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."


Extra credit:

	In generational revenge against the "seed" of King Ahab of Israel, 
	Jehu, chosen to succeed Ahab on the throne, arranges for the 
	slaughter of Ahab's seventy children. After they are killed, their 
	heads are put on display in baskets at the city gates.

    "by the waters of Babylon where we sat down
    "and there we wept when we remembered Zion...
    
    "...required from us a song.
    "how can we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
    "if I forget thee oh Jerusalem
    "let my right hand forget it's cunning...
    "let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth
    "if I put not Jerusalem above my chiefest joy."
    
    such sadness.  such beauty.  such loss.
    
    and then, -when we are able, we'll do the same to them:
    
    "happy shall be he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
    stones"
    
    such vindictiveness.  such visciousness.  so sad, and so human.
    
    I despair

    
.8, 

> and so human

No. Not "so human." Rather, so patriarchal.

D.

    
    "You must understand that Americans are a warrior nation."
    
    	-- Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan to a group of Arab leaders in early
        September, one month into the Middle East crisis. Quoted by Barbara
        Ehrenreich in the latest Time Magazine, p. 100, in an essay called
        "The Warrior Culture."
    
    D.

    "Some anthropologists postulate a murderous instinct, almost
    unique among living species, in human males. Other discern a
    materialistic motive behind every fray: a need for slaves, 
    grazing land or even human flesh to eat.  Still others point
    to the similarities between war and other male pastimes -- the
    hunt and outdoor sports -- and suggest that it is boredom, ultimately,
    that stirs men to fight."
    
    						Ann B.

    
    "We seem to believe that leadership is expressed, in no small part, by
    a willingness to cause the deaths of others. After the U.S. invasion of
    Panama, President Bush exulted that no one could call him 'timid'; he
    was at last a 'macho man.' The press, in even more primal language,
    hailed him for succeeding in an 'initiation rite' by demonstrating his
    'willingness to shed blood'....
    
    "Female candidates are routinely advised to overcome the handicap of
    their gender by talking 'tough'....
    
    "we are unnerved by peace and find it boring....
    
    "Only a real war seems to revive our interest in real events....
    
    "an anthropoligist...might say this is just what warriors do.
    Intoxicated by their own drumbeats and war songs, fascinated by the
    glint of steel and the prospect of blood, they will go forth, time and
    again, to war."
    
                                       

    
"And war, to a warrior people, is of course the highest adventure, the 
surest antidote to malaise, the endlessly repeated theme of legend, song, 
religious myth and personal quest for meaning. It is how men die and what 
they find to live for."

D.