Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I have a problem with the base note. Carol, are you qualified to teach
    this course? Are the people who are going to take this course going to
    be licensed to handle a firearm? 
    
    REK

    re .1 She couldn't teach an 'NRA' course *without* being a
    certified instructor. (We're rather stuffy about that :-) )

    
    re: .1 (REK)
    
    > I have a problem with the base note.  Carol, are you qualified
    > to teach this course?
    
    Carol and I took the same instructor's course to become certified
    as an NRA handgun safety and long rifle marksmanship instructor.
    
    We passed the same (_very_ long) 3 exams consisting of essay, short
    answer, and some multiple choice questions, where passing was
    over a score over 90%.  
    
    > Are the people who are going to take this course going to be
    > licensed to handle a firearm?
    
    REK, this course is a PREREQUISITE for becoming licensed to carry
    (but so is being a white male homeowner in many towns).
    
    							nancy b.
    

    Re: 2 and 3 are the people taking this course going to have
    permits?
    Are you making a profit from this course?
    Is there a charge for this course and if there is where is the money
    going?
    
    REK

    
    Excuse me, but if the NRA has approved the giving of this course, don't
    you think they have guidelines that must be followed for this?
    
    I'm sorry, but your continued doubt of the veracity and responsibility
    of the course offering *despite* the pre-approval of the NRA as denoted
    in .0 is surprising....
    
    -Jody
    

    re: .4 REK
    
    May I suggest you follow the directions in .0 and send Carol mail
    directly to ask about registration details?  
    
    You can summarize the answers here, assuming others are also interested
    in the results of your questioning her credentials and motivations.  
    
    Pam

     I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered or I DEMAND
    the basenote be deleted!
    
    
    REK

    REK
    
    a) one does not need a permit to attend these classes. (As stated
    elsewhere, many police depts. require such training before
    issuing permits.
    b) different clubs sponsoring such courses charge a fee to cover
    ammunition used and instructional materials, as well as covering
    upkeep and utilities in their clubhouses
    c) instructors donate their time (and usually supply their own guns)
    for these courses. They are not compensated. They have payed to
    attend courses where they become certified instructors.

	RE: .11 So far several people have replied that these courses
	generally only try to meet expenses. Personally I have never
	heard of any such NRA related classes ever being used to raise
	money for the NRA. Teaching safety is as I'm sure you are aware
	one of the primary reasons the NRA was founded over 100 years
	ago. Other NRA purposes include Police training, the US National
	and Olympic shooting teams, and other target shooting events.

	I believe funds for these purposes are generated primarly from
	donations.

				Alfred

    THE NRA IS NOT A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION! Lets get the facts straight.
    
    REK
    
    Re: la-de-da Your reply show your lack of common sense.

    re .14 REK, the NRA gets no money from these courses except the
    cost of printing the instruction books. Furthermore, instructors
    are expressly forbidden to discuss impending legislature or
    'politics' in general; they may only describe current laws and
    regulations. *These courses are not political.*
    
    (We *do* get the peace of mind that comes from knowing that
    other gun-owners have had safety training with their firearms.)

    re .11 Herb, I can state that no money from these courses goes to
    further the *political* purposes of the NRA. I will state proudly
    that the money *does* go to promote safe firearms handling. Which
    purpose is not contrary to notes policy.

    Dana, I don't beleive you or the NRA, somewthing about owning automatic
    weapons for home use comes to mind.... Like that person who shot up the
    Macdonalds in San Diego comes to mind in a hurry... Wans't he a member
    of the NRA?
    
    REK

    So what, I have been a member of the NRA in the past and I don't even
    own a firearm. The NRA, as far as I'm concerned, is a good
    organization. Like many organization, they have their outspoken
    representatives. Some are very loud and others while not quite as vocal
    do manage to get their point across. I took the safety course at the
    age of 13 and I can think of no better way to learn how to properly
    handle a firearm. In N.H, one cannot get a hunting license without
    showing a certificate of having passed this course. They teach proper
    saftety techniques and how to clean a rifle among other things. I
    support them and see nothing wrong with the offering of such a course.
    I don't support all the legislation that they are trying to get passed
    or keep from being passed. That doesn't mean that this course is wrong. 
    I can just imagine the accidents that could occur if we let people out
    to hunt or shoot with no training whatsoever.
    
    Phil

    This topic is to discuss the course itself, and any questions about it.
    
    Please take discussion of the NRA in general and handguns in particular
    to topic 82 -  firearms and self-protection.
    
    Thank you
    
    -Jody Bobbitt
    womannotes co-moderator
    

>  <<< Note 172.7 by WOODS::KINGR "Hospital called, your brain is ready!!!!" >>>

>     I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered or I DEMAND
>    the basenote be deleted!
    
    
>    REK

Carol is fully qualified.

Neither Carol nor the other instructor(s) are making one cent on this course.

The "costs" pay for lunch for the participants, the printed course material,
ammunition, and use of the club building.

The instructors give up a weekend day that they could be spending elsewhere
but teach safety because it is extremely important.

BTW under the IRS laws, codes, etc the NRA *IS* a non-profit educational 
organization. 
(this is not to imply or infer that the NRA gets any of the money from *this*
course, just pointing out facts)
Amos

    Re:21 The question still stands, is the NRA a registered non-profit
    group? 

    Another question, the information handed out who pays for them? Does
    the NRA pay for them then charge the people?

    I'm not questioning Carol's credentials, I'm questioning whether
    the notesfile is the place to advertise for this...

    REK

    I have verified with the basenote author that the fees involved in the
    course are for the course materials, use of the facilities, ammunition,
    and lunch.  The instructor receives no financial remuneration, and none
    of the money becomes a direct donation to the NRA.
    
    -Jody
    

    WHen the NRA has lobbied AGAINST the ban of ASSAULT/AUTOMATIC weapons
    how can I trust them to teach hunter safty courses?
    
         REK
    
    WHat is wrong with this picture?

I almot moved the last n notes to 82 and friends. Unfortunately, one of REK's
replies would need to split between the gun topics and policy. So, I'll give
you folks one more chance before going through the agony of splitting and
moving stuff myself:

Notes _directly_ related to the topic belong here
Notes about what belongs where or in notes go in the processing topic
Notes about guns and the NRA go in the already established guns and safety and
polictics topics.

I will be _overjoyed_ to help any of you find the appropriate topic.
	Mez

    Please be aware that this notesfile will not tolerate confrontational
    noting styles, as listed in 1.7.  Please temper your language
    accordingly, and afford other noters the freedom of their own opinions.
    
    -Jody
    co-moderator of womannotes
    

    re: .29 (REK)
    
    You, of course, have the right to your views on firearms.  However
    I respectfully submit that you don't have the right to express those
    views in a way that is disrespectful or insulting to another employee.
    
    Specifically:
    
    � O goodie, another gun nut,
    
    and 
    
    � Gun nuts unite! 
    
    � Carol, please don't take this personal. (sic)  I don't like
    � guns and I don't like people carry (sic) guns around with them.
    
    I fail to see how such insulting remarks can be taken anything
    but personally.  I urge you to, at the very least, delete and
    reword your reply.
    
    Steve
         

Re:32 Is this better?
    
    REK
>    I was hesitant to respond to the controversial noter, regarding my
>   class.  Many noters answered his questions, who do know me personally.
    
Me? are you imply that I am a controversial note?

>    I sincerely hope that you are not feeling bullied by this controversy.
>    My intent is to offer my personal time to women, (in particular but not
>    limited to), who wish to learn firearm safety.

No, I do not feel bullied. But thank you for your concern.
    
>    I myself, went through a trying time wanting to learn about firearms,
>    and it took a lot of courage to finally walk into a Shooting Sports
>    Club to take my first course.  The reception was very positive and I
>    was encouraged to learn all that I choose to learn.  So, do not be
>    discouraged by one or two people who are not favorably inspired by my
>    base note.  I hope to answer your questions and teach you the most
>    important lesson "Safety".

O goodie, another gun ___, thats why the reception was about. I got some 
news for you Carol, there are alot of people who don't like guns. and would 
like to see them banned.
    
>    Many misinformed people are against this knowledge being shared.  I
>    personally was determined to understand what it may take to defend
>    myself, by learning how to get information I have a right to have.

The only way you can defend yourself is by using your gun?
    
>    What was passed on to me, I wish to pass on to others.  I love the 
>    sport of shooting and decided, this year, to join the Mass High Power
>    Rifle Team, to sponsor junior shooters in this very distinguished
>    sport and improve my own shooting skills.  We practice nearly every
>    weekend (excluding July 14th) to prepare for our Championships at
>    Camp Perry this Summer.

Doesn't a pellet gun do the same?
    
>    The junior shooters are incredibly impressive.  They are also, proud of
>    their families who have supported them with their desire to shoot 
>    competitively.

Teach em young what a gun can do!
    
>    Never be discouraged about learning.....!
    
Make show you also show them people who got gunned down on the streets of 
our cities and towns.

>    I am a certified instructor as Nancy and Amos have stated.  And thank
>    you Moderators for clearing up the accusations regarding personal
>    financial gain.

Accusations, no, question yes.
    
>    Looking forward to meeting those who have an interest in this course.

Gun ____ unite! you all can sit around the fire and tell stories how the 
"old days" were great and everyone could have a gun strapped to their side!
    
>                            Carol

  Carol, please don't take this personal. I don't like guns and I don't 
like people carry guns around with them. The Bobbies in England proved you
don't need to carry a gun. Its one thing to carry a .22 to a firing range 
and another thing to carry a M-16 around ( just to make a point).

REK

    Take discussion of Guns, and how you feel about them to topic 82...
    SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED for that or I'll be GLAD to move further notes
    on your behalf.
    
    -Jody
    co-moderator of womannotes
    

    re: .25
    What is wrong with THIS picture: someone who is determined to find ANY
    excuse to squash discussion of a SAFETY COURSE merely because it might
    show the NRA is some sort of good light (we can't have that can we?)
    
    Part of a problem is semantics.  The NRA never did (maybe should have?)
    oppose a ban on real "assault weapons".  They lent their full support
    to the National Firearms Act of 1934, under which they were, for all 
    practical purposes, banned to private citizens.  The effort of the
    anti-gun crowd to extend the definition to various look-alikes of
    (para)military firearms is as bogus as the campaign against "cop
    killer" bullets (none of which has ever been involved in the killing of
    any U.S. peace officer.)  If that definition were extended to its
    logical limit, all you H&B owners will have to turn in your weapons,
    because they can be easily used in an assault.  (Baseball bats)
    

    I attended the course that Carol taught on Saturday. It was very
    informative, and the instructors were excellent. It was mostly
    instruction with very little politics, and not a "propaganda" session
    for the NRA. I think that the fact that there were female instructors
    made the subject matter less intimidating. In fact, for all of the
    information and instructional literature we received, ammo used,
    refreshments and lunch (which was great), I'm can't understand how they
    can put it on for only $35. I'm looking forward to taking some follow up
    courses.

    Deb

    I concur!
    
    I was made to feel extremely comfortable and was instructed thoroughly
    in what made a gun, how it worked, how to store and use it safely, and
    various licenses and requirements necessary to have and use a gun
    legally.
    
    And I shot pretty darn good too ;)!
    
    -Jody