Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I've also noticed that many women tend to own their flaws more quickly
    than they'll own their advantageous aspects.  "I'm fat", "I'm not very
    smart", "I'm not at all creative", "I've got breeder hips", "I'm
    flat"....I hear these things from women.  But I seldom hear women say
    "I'm beautiful", "I'm graceful", "I'm smart as a whip".....
    
    Women seem to own their aspects more than men, perhaps because they are
    more sensitive to what others think than some men may be.
    
    -Jody
    

    Really interesting question.  (!)
    
    I don't know how much it means, though.  Saying "I am" is a frequent
    turn of speech.  I also say "I am Pamela Smith," not "My name is Pamela
    Smith."  (In French class we were strictly told to say "my name is", so
    it's different in other languages than English.)  You could say that's
    identifying myself with my name or you could say it's a conversational
    shortcut.  
    
    re: .1  Jody
    
    Well, you seldom hear men say "I'm handsome," "I'm agile," "I'm
    smart as a whip," either!
    
    However, I agree that women tend to
      o internalize failure
      o externalize success
    and men tend to
      o externalize failure
      o internalize success
    which was an insight I got from a valuing differences tape of 
    Julie (White?).  (She was reporting on a controlled study, for all
    doubters out there.)
    
    Pam

good thing too, because I haven't the foggiest notion of what my breast size
is.

oh sure, I have a fair notion of the appearance, shape etc and can refresh my
memory almost at will, but an official size? no.

  Ann

    Ann
    
    How do you buy undergarments then?
    
    Bonnie

re: .0

I keep having the same thoughts about career (I am, I am, I am, I am, I am an
engineer. I can, I can, I can, I can demolish 40 beers....). I'm glad you
pointed out that we use it about breast size too. I'll have to try to figure
out where we use it and where we don't.
	Mez

I don't know what size I am either.  Depending on what undergarments I buy, I
vary by two inches and a cup size.  

I could give the best size description in two words, but it's not appropriate 
here.

And I don't see any reason why "I'm XXXX" is a problem.  I mean it is the size
that you are.  I could say I'm alot of things, but each thing would just be a
different part of me, each statement of "I'm XXXX" just decribing one part of 
the whole.

Does this make any sense?

Lisa

I wear Gitano sports bras which come in S, M, and L, so I honestly have
no idea what my bra size is.  Which is probably a good thing, or else I
might burst into tears.  =8-)  I don't remember ever saying "I am an M"
but then I don't remember ever saying "I wear an M" because I honestly
don't know whether I've ever discussed the size of my breasts with any-
one who didn't already know for themselves, or who needed to know.

This is a very interesting topic!

Carla 

re.4

I have never in my life bought an undergarment which required that I know my
breast size.  Mother says that, if pressed, I could get all the support I 
require from a pair of Curad band-aids -- I believe she meant it unkindly, but
I've never found it an inconvenience.

    re .4, Bonnie, that *is* funny! :-)  I don't buy that kind of underwear
    myself.  (There aren't very many areas where I need absolutely no
    support but unfortunately this is one of them.)
    
    Still I do *know* my bra size but why deliberately humiliate myself
    in public?
    
    I'd much rather tell you my jean size.  It's more flattering! :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    That Maidenform woman certainly is a rascal.  She goes everywhere. 
    
    RE: .9     
    >Still I do *know* my bra size but why deliberately humiliate myself
    >in public?
    
    Why in the world would you be humiliated?  You're proud of being a size
    3 so I assume you are very petite.  And since you say you don't need
    support I assume that you are petite all over.  Sounds
    well-proportioned.
    
    I think we've gotten back to yet another aspect of "the way women are
    supposed to look."  Except that in this area of the anatomy, if we
    indeed meet the wildest fantasies about breasts (size you'd expect 
    in a woman raised in zero-gravity), they hurt like hell and cause 
    back problems.
    
    I am not my bra size.  But I have been ---  a shoe size
    						a writer
    						a 32 x 36
    						a camera
    
        :^)   Margaret

    
    	RE: .2  Pam
    
    	> (In French class we were strictly told to say "my name is", so
    	> it's different in other languages than English.) 
    
    	Isn't the literal translation for this common French phrase,
    	"I call myself Suzanne (or whatever)..."?  
    
    	Still interesting compared to English, of course.
    

    
    I, for one, enjoy being petite on top. I am expecting, my breasts
    have grown, they hurt like hell and they're getting in my way, like I
    can't sleep on my belly! I can't wait for them to shrink. I don't
    envy women with big breasts, at all.
    
    
    Eva.

    Eva, 
    I wear a 40DD and sleep on my belly just fine. The only time I didn't
    sleep that way was when I was pregnant.
    
    +pat+

    
    Pat,
    
    How can you manage that?!!! I guess, it is a matter of getting used to.
    I just don't feel right with these "things" ;-) , mainly because
    they hurt so much.
    
    Eva.

    Pregnancy is certainly one time when a lot of us become extra-aware of
    our breasts, but I was also wondering how people's normal size (either
    small, medium, or large :-)) has affected their lives, self-image, etc.

    Pat & Eva:
    
    I also wear a 40DD (probably bigger, but its "push and shove" because
    larger ones are even more difficult to find)) and I
    don't have any trouble sleeping on my stomach!  
    
    I think if you have had them all your life you get used to them, I
    don't know about anyone else, but mine don't hurt, so they don't bother
    me.
    
    Also, I have taken to "just being me" and not try to hide them all the
    time, I wear terry rompers around the house and in the yard (they are
    strapless) so I go without a bra./  I figure if people don't like it,
    they can lump it!
    
    I guess what I am saying is I am my bra size, maybe I should change my
    name to "D D"?  ha ha
    
    jackie
    
    ;^)
    
    
    I come from a long line of large breasted women.  So for me its a
    natural!

    
    When I'm shopping for bras I'm my breast size.  Same as when shooping
    for other clothes.
    
    When I was younger I used to be very self-conscious about it.  I was a
    late starter but sure made up for it so it took a little getting used
    to.  The main problem I have now is finding a dress that fits.  It's
    usually too tight around the top and too loose at the bottom.  I'm also
    tall and it can be very disconcerting to have someone talk to your
    breasts rather than your face!
    
    I don't like being this big but there's nothing much to be done about
    it.  Breast reduction doesn't appeal to me at all.  Sometimes it is
    uncomfortable but I've never felt any pain unless I lie in an awkward
    position.
    
    		Holly
    
    PS. Elle McPherson's lingerie has just been release here in AUstralia. 
    She has "big boobs" but what I can't get over is how flimsy all the
    bras in the line are.  The straps are very narrow and only have one
    hook.  I also haven't seen them go past a 14D (Australian sizing,
    I think it translates to 36D).  I guess it's ok to "hang out" a little 
    when you only have to model them!

    Hey.....what happened to 127.17?
    
    
    Jackie
    :-(
    

    I'd guess someone wrote a note and deleted it shortly after posting.  I
    do that sometimes, particularly when I'm angry - I'll write a note, and
    delete it quickly after writing it because it just has nothing
    contribute to a notesfile (except flames).  Alternately, sometimes I'll
    write a note, post it, and then realize there's a mistake in it (typo
    or phrase that could be misunderstood).  I'll save it to a file, delete
    it from the conference, edit it, and repost the corrected version.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    Oh, what a topic!
    
    Someone asked if your breast size has affected your life, self-esteem
    ...  For me it certainely has.   I was a slightly late bloomer.  Then
    suddendly in 8th grade I went up a cup size every 3 months, until I
    reached 32 DD!  (I was only 4'11" tall.)  Well, the kids in my class
    didn't believe "they" were real so the boys pinned me down in the
    cafeteria during lunch to "prove it".  Also, with growing so fast, alot
    of my clothes were too tight so I got alot of abuse there.  Some girls
    in school tried to beat me up for wearing tight shirts (I guess their
    boyfriends like my size).  Then I learned to buy huge clothing and I
    gained weight, so they didn't look so odd.  I also learned to slouch. 
    I think it would be safe to say that my breast size DEFINITELY affected
    my self image, (as well as my safety).  Then I graduated and came out
    into the business world.  The first man I worked for never, I repeat
    NEVER, looked me in the eye.  He spoke to "them", my breasts.  I quit
    that company.  At the next company the male managers only openly stared
    at "them " and made comments once or twice.  Here at Digital, anyone
    attempts to get a look-see and I cross my arms, give them a "go to
    h*ll" look and walk away.
    
    I think it's obvious here that, at least in my case, my breast size has
    affected many aspects of my life in a negative way.  And to many
    people, women and men inclusive, I AM my breast size.  
    
    There is a good side here.  I got married 4 weeks ago and for my
    wedding, I lost 15 pounds and 2 bra sizes.  Now I'm a C cup.  I bought
    my first bikini since I was 13 and I wore it.  And I'm actually
    starting to like "them"!  Its a shame that it takes getting smaller
    breasts to make me feel better about myself.  I'm sure some of that is
    my fault, but I don't think all of it is my fault.
    
    Rachael
    

    Re .21, I think that women who have either bigger than average,
    or smaller than average breast size can definitely be negatively
    affected by it.  Especially by the comments that come in high school
    and in the late teens and early 20's.  It seems that some people
    just can't keep from commenting on smaller or bigger than average
    breast size.  It really makes me angry that some people feel they
    have some sort of right to comment on something so personal.
    
    I was a "late bloomer", too - I was completely flat until I was
    about 18 and then I "bloomed" to a size 32A.  It's amazing how many
    mean comments I got about my breast size when I was in my teens
    and early 20's.  It definitely contributed to a negative self-image,
    and it's only in recent yrs. that I've learned to be happy with
    me, the way I am.  It took a long time for me to realize that a
    woman who doesn't have big breasts can be considered attractive
    for other things.  I have realized that there are some men who don't 
    consider big breasts a requirement in a relationship.

    But, I still harbor resentment against those people, in the past,
    when I was young, who apparently felt absolutely free to make fun
    of me and comment negatively on my appearance, "put me down" really
    for having small breasts.  It seems to me, that in my life, many
    people have said far meaner things to me about my appearance, than I have 
    said to other people.  I guess I still resent that about the human
    race in general.
    
    When I first came to DEC I worked with one extremely obsese older
    woman who went through a period of time when she made a lot of
    wise-cracks about my size.  Yet, if I had ever retorted back with
    a comment about her mind-boggling weight problem, everyone would
    have been horrified.  Yet, it was apparently perfectly okay for
    her to make fun of me for being small up top.  I remember that I
    went home and complained to my then husband about this woman so
    much that he told me he was sick of hearing it.  He said, Go into
    work and tell her that if she ever dares make any comment about
    your chest again, that I'll go in there and kill her!  I *did* tell
    her that, and she actually stopped. (ha-ha)
    
    I also went out once with a guy who suddenly looked across the table
    at me and said, "God, you've got to be the flattest chested girl
    I've ever dated."  I wanted to die, and felt so bad I didn't say
    anything and had to fight back the tears.  This particular guy had
    been born with one ear!  Can you imagine how cruel I would have
    been considered had I replied, "Oh, really?  Gee, you're the first
    guy I've ever dated with one ear too?"  If I ever had that moment
    to live over again that's what I'd say, though!!!  (the jerk)
    
    So, the answer is, yes, breast size is made so much of in our society
    that anyone who is bigger or smaller than average can be negatively
    affected by it.
    
    Lorna
    

    	RE: 127.21
    
    	Getting pinned down anywhere, for any reason, has to be
    	terrible at best. I believe I woulda screamed bloody
    	murder.
    
    	This breast thing should not be generating the amount of
    	attention it does.
    
    	Scott

	Just as a casual observation, I usually respond with "I'm a large",
or "I'm a 33-32" if I'm talking about clothing though I do say "I have a
17� inch neck" if we're talking about dress shirts.

						--D

I guess I have been pretty lucky, all these horror stories have never happened
to me.

The worst thing that every happened was when my science teacher whispered to
me while I was leaning over a dissected frog that I needed a bra.  I was an
early bloomer, and in 7th grade, no one else need bras (even though they were
all wearing them, they called them "training bras" and they have no function.)
I was mortified.  She said she could see my nipples through my shirt!!

But in general, I have always been slightly larger than average. Enough 
larger so that my breasts are pretty much an asset in attracting men (though
a lot of men, believe it or not, prefer petite women) but not large enough
that people *stare* at them, or forget that I am a person attached to them.

As a matter of fact, during the days when I felt I was very ugly, I thought
my breasts were the only attractive thing about me.  Perhaps they saved me,
in those low-self-esteem days.  They affected my self-image *positively*
rather than negatively, and are about the *only* part of my body/image that
I *didn't* get teased about in high school/junior HS.

They are a pain sometimes, *always* having to wear a bra (it is quite 
uncomfortable to be without one for any length of time), can't wear strappless
dresses, they don't make "sexy" clothes and lingerie in sizes that fit me,
dresses are too small on top and large on the bottom, etc.  But they have 
been worth it, most of the time.

Actually, given the size of my hips :-P (breeder hips?) I say Thank Goodness 
I have fairly large breasts, otherwise I'd look like a pear; this way, I can 
get by with the "hourglass" look even though sometimes I wish I looked like 
Jamie Lee Curtis instead! :-)

D!

[I told a man I was dating recently "I hope you are a 'breast man' not a
'leg man' cuz my breasts are much nicer than my legs!"  (I have, uh, larger
than average thighs, I think)]

re: .26
    

>As a matter of fact, during the days when I felt I was very ugly, I thought
>my breasts were the only attractive thing about me.  Perhaps they saved me,
>in those low-self-esteem days.  They affected my self-image *positively*
>rather than negatively, and are about the *only* part of my body/image that
>I *didn't* get teased about in high school/junior HS.
    
    Yes!  Yes!  Me too! 
    
    -Jody

    Re: Lorna in .22
    
    I was the opposite - started out an early bloomer, but didn't "bloom"
    all that much and just stopped till college when I finally made it from
    AA to A (and I'm 5'7" - hardly petite).  I found that the person I got
    the most grief from was my mother - of all people!  She was upset that
    my breasts weren't getting any larger.  Needless to say, that did
    wonders for my self-image.  So I ended up slouching a lot so no one 
    could tell how flat I really was (for which my mother promptly started
    to pick on me - I couldn't win!).
    
    I finally grew to like my size, especially after reading a study that
    correlated being smart to being flat-chested.  Now I'm so glad I'm the
    size I am since I ride horses a lot.  I feel sorry for women with
    larger breasts which bounce a lot when riding at a sitting trot.  It
    just can't be comfortable.
    
    						Jan

    re: .19
    
    I made a mistake and had to delete it.
    
    		Holly
    

    
    I guess I was fortunate that I grew up in Asia where most women
    has small breasts. So, I fit the norm!!! I am basically happy
    with my figure, I am small all over. The only gripe I have about
    being small on top is that most stores don't carry a whole lot
    of bras in small sizes. But again, I can get away with wearing none
    and I don't think I'll have to worry about them sagging when I get
    old! Nowadays, most women clothes don't put the emphasis on the
    breasts (like they used to). Times are changing slowly, for the better.
    
    Eva.

    I've always been happy to be "one size fits all"
    

I have seen a couple people in this topic make comments along the lines of
"I feel sorry for women with {big|small} breasts!"

Oh please!  If you feel comfortable about your breast size, that's wonderful,
whatever the size.  If that size is right for you, great.  I do not feel at
all offended if a woman with larger breasts than me is very glad that she
has large breasts, or a woman with smaller breasts than me is very glad
that she has small breasts.  Good self-image is important.  But that is
*entirely* different than saying you feel sorry for those who have what
you consider to be less-than-optimally sized breasts!

Hey, I *like* my breasts, and am offended by the suggestion that I desserve
*pity* because I can't jog without a bra, or because men don't *stare* at
mt chest because I am so large.  Don't feel sorry for me, I am *very* happy
to be graced with the breasts I have been given.

I don't feel sorry for women with different sized breasts than me. I
feel sorry for women who aren't comfortable about their size, for whatever
reason and whatever the size.

It *is* possible to have a healthy self-esteem without putting down people
who are different.

D!

    
    re 23.
    
    (count to 100)
    
    I believe that I did scream bloody murder.  I also kicked and punched.
    Strange but none of the 100+ people watching helped.  They
    all thought it was very funny.  
    
    I wouldn't suggest assuming that a woman who was sexually
    molested didn't try to stop it from happening.
    (I also wasn't wearing a mini-skirt, dancing wildly or
    wearing a see-through shirt.)
    

    re: 34
    
    I apologize for over reacting.  You sort-of hit a hot
    button.