Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    er, Donald, your anonymity is in jeopardy... ;^)
    
    I watched the program.  I especially liked the dialog between the
    lesbian partners.  (Funny, I thought the other, short-haired one
    was the stunningly beautiful one.)  The program tried to cover a lot of
    ground, and it raised a lot of issues.  I have to wonder whether the
    fact that they were all left unsettled was meant as a lead-in to the
    series which was publicized during the (many) ad breaks.  There was one
    or more of everything in the film:  unwed mothers, murder, bail-jumping, 
    rape, abandonment, tenant/landlord issues, gossipy neighbor, promiscuity
    and disappointment. It saddens me that real issues have to be served up
    in such a format to be given attention. Also, I thought the men were
    shown as too irresponsible or evil.
    
    I think I'll stick to PBS in the future,
    
    Marge 
    
    

Is this based on a book?

--bonnie

    .1  I have to agree with you on the part about the lady with all
        the children.  This would never happen in real life.  Overall,
        I liked the movie.  It sure did cover a lot of issues.  I loved
        the part where the lesbian threw their dinner over at that old
        biddies' window.
    

    re :.2
    
    	It is based on a book of the same name.  I will find out the
    author's name and put it here tomorrow.

    RE .2 - Yes, it's based on a wonderful book,
    _The_Women_of_Brewster_Place_ by Gloria Naylor
    

    re: .0
    
    Donald, 
        I'm curious to know why you thought the elderly man who
    was beaten by the Lesbian to symbolize her father?  I realize that
    she held a good deal of hurt and resentment toward her parents
    (and I think justifiably so, for their treatment of her) but it
    seemed to me that Ben (the elderly man) was more sybolic of her
    attacker. She did to him what she would have done to C.C. had she
    been able.
    
    
    re:.?   I too loved the part where the short haired Lesbian threw
    the meatloaf ingredients at the old bat's window. You don't know
    how many times I've wanted to do the same, but I just didn't have
    any olives handy!!!  Needless to say, my lover and I cheered her
    on wholeheartedly!!
    
    Paula

    Re:  .6 -- Why her father?
    
    Hmmmm.
    
    You're right, the proximate issue is her physical attacker, CC.  But
    there were two things that made me draw the connection with her father: 
    The one that came first to mind is the old man's extensive comments
    that she reminded him of his daughter.  In addition, this scene is
    almost a mirror image of one of the very early scenes, in which Oprah's
    character is beaten by her father.  To wit: old man/younger woman, the
    sexual context, the temporary insanity on the part of the attacker, the
    wooden implement which in one case is a broom and in the other is a
    part of the local trash.  This parallel treatment is reinforced by
    having Oprah (as both herself and a mother figure) return to view the
    scene.  It was HER mother, you will remember, who broke up the first
    beating (with a gun:  i.e., a phallic symbol, which shoots out the
    lamp, i.e., the light of inspiration, often used symbolically as a
    masculine role).
    
    As I write this, I remember there are two other levels:  (1) she is
    temporarily insane, because she knows the old man couldn't and wouldn't
    hurt her, and (2) she subsequently tries to attack the crowd who's
    trying to help her.  One might interpret this as a response at four
    levels:  personal, neighbor, family, society.
    
    Regards,
    
    DR

    re:.7
    
    I understand your reasoning but I still diasgree.  While Ben made
    several comparisons of the woman to his daughter, she did not return
    the connection between he and her father. In fact she seemed to
    be much more hurt by her mothers actios, as she alluded to them
    more often. I don't remember her father being mentioned at all
    specifically. 
    Also, she had no connection to Oprah to justify her situation as
    a repeating cycle.  If it were her daughter I could see it, but...
    
    I do agree with your analysis of her lashing out at the crowd as
    being symbolic of society at large.

    My word! I'm away in class for two days and what do I find in
    =wn=!  :-)
    
    in re .0 my only response other than to say thanks for entering
    that is to say 'I love you' but you already know that..
    
    now back to the regularly scheduled topic.
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    I thought the portrayal of black men was dangerous and worthless. 
    The portrayal of the black women was of the eternal matriarch. 
    
    But, isn't this how whites have portrayed blacks for years? My only
    hope is that blacks don't believe it. The book was written by a black
    woman. Her name eludes me. Beautifully written. Beatifully acted.
    
    Please don't mind if I sound cynical. I just heard Minister Ferrukhan
    (sp) and he seems to have no hope for race relations in the U.S.                                                                  
    
                                                                     
    Kate
    

                      <<< Note 1023.10 by USEM::DONOVAN >>>
                     -< Worthless Men/ Eternal Matriarch >-

>    But, isn't this how whites have portrayed blacks for years? My only
>    hope is that blacks don't believe it.

I'm not positive I'm remembering this correctly, but I think the is
the show Oprah Winfrey managed to get on the air. The way I remember
the story, the book was suggested for a mini-series and was
rejected. Oprah showed up in the studio with copies of the book
and told the execs, "It's obvious you haven't read this book." Once
they read it, they agreed to film it.

Wasn't it produced by Harpo Productions? (Oprah owns Harpo.)

Kathy  

    The book was written by Gloria Naylor.  (I think :-))

    The show was produced the Harpo Production, Oprah Winfrey's
    whatcha-ma-call-it.  

    Oprah was practically condemned by many blacks for getting involved in
    Women of Brewster Place.  As I recall it, people complained about the
    negative portrayals.  People complained that while men like those in 
    Women of Brewsters Place, other men exist too.  Coming on the heels of 
    The Color Purple and a few others, it seems as though the only shows
    the "executives" approve of are the strong and bad "black mamas" with
    the  lazy, good-for-nutten and violent "black niggers." 

    But check out regular TV.  Nearly all the black people, save a handful
    of shows, fit the stereotype one way or the other. When they don't fit
    the stereotype, they are usually not in main roles.  Look at "LA Law."
    The black people are always supporting the whites, helping them get
    through their struggles, working for them, or something.  Look at that
    show with the women and the one black man, its comes on on Tuesday
    nights over here.  Of all the black men in the world, he's a ex-con! 

    Harpo is Oprah backwards (does that mean she's into devil
    worshipping???  :-)  )

           <<< Note 1023.13 by PACKER::WHARTON "Sapodilla gal..." >>>

Interesting. I remember the controversy about the Color Purple, but
missed hearing it about Women of Brewster Place.

As for regular tv fare, ain't it the truth!

Kathy

    Re:  .8  The points you bring up certainly weaken my argument.
    
    Re:  Television and Black People
    
    This did look like an updated Color Purple, and there's no doubt that
    AA Male leading roles representing law-abiding, healthy people are hard
    to come by outside Cosby's influence.  I took this piece as much more
    of a nearly-radical feminist statement than anything else; I don't
    think the same plot with White characters would have been aired.  I
    think you'd agree that healthy gay or lesbian portrayals are more rare
    than healthy Black male TV characters (gay or straight), yet the
    lesbians in this piece have no character flaws at all and are drawn
    completely sympathetically.  Maybe network execs get their wires
    crossed when you feed them more than one controversial subject at a
    time.
    
    DR
    

    RE: Note 1023.15 by SANDS::MAXHAM
    
    <..ain't it the truth ! >
    
    You mean the truth about perpetuating stereotypes
    which promote better human_relations, right ?

    <<< Note 1023.17 by BTOVT::BOATENG_K "Gabh mo leithsceal,Muinteoir!" >>>
                                     -<   >-

>    RE: Note 1023.15 by SANDS::MAXHAM
    
>    <..ain't it the truth ! >
    
>    You mean the truth about perpetuating stereotypes
>    which promote better human_relations, right ?

Well, the "perpetuating stereotypes" part is in line with
what I meant.

But promoting "better human_relations"?

<smirk>

(I can appreciate a tongue-in-cheek response!)