Conference turris::womannotes-v2

>And how do you know whether you've met a Feminist Hater?

When you get into a discussion on language (for instance, using 'girl' to refer
to women, or 'men or guys' to refer to women), and they ignore you, or look
offended, or roll their eyes :-).
	Mez

>What's frightening is these men looked as yuppie and upstanding with
>good ol' American values as any man walking on the street.  Or down
>the corridors of a Digital building.  Or standing in front of a class
>at a major university.  Or teaching math to 5th graders. 
    
    What did you expect them to look like?  Did you think only
    rednecks in cowboy hats or unemployed pipefitters beat their
    wives?
    
    --bonnie

    re .2
    
    actually, that is kind of close to what I thought...it comes as
    more of a shock when you hear about the "guy next door" doing it.

I am in no way suggesting I believe yuppie men are incapable or more
unlikely to commit crimes or harbor intense hatred/resentment towards
women or perpetuate the sick injustice of domestic violence.  On the
contrary.  I am suggesting just the opposite, as did the show.  Which
is not, of course, what those fine upstanding men intended to convey.

Carla (a non-yuppie punker)

    Please consider the source, Carla. Donahue, Winfrey, and Geraldo
    are really about entertainment, not about news. Their rating points
    are based on the controversy they can stir up; they are quite capable
    of finding one wacko with an extreme view, and present them as being
    representative of something. It is a form of tabloid television, and is
    not a particularly responsible branch of the journalistic trade. These
    shows are about a half-step away from the National Enquirer, in my
    opinion.
    
    -roger
    

    
    	RE .5
    
    	I do agree with Bruce about those kind of shows Carla.
    
    	However, in reference to how to tell if you are confronted
    	with one...
    
    	Unless they choose to be totally overt about it, you don't.
    	I heard an observation made once that stated since the rules
    	and regs about treating <insert favorite group here> as equals
    	started getting enforced (with whatever degree this occurs)
    	in various places, the overt behaviour has gone underground
    	and become quite covert.  They may smile and treat you just
    	fine while you are watching them...but don't turn your back.
    	As this implies, it doesn't only apply to feminist haters but
    	<favourite group again> haters as well. I guess it's just part
    	of human nature but it's sure not my favourite part. I always 
    	keep hoping (you always need to do that) that the best in people
    	will come to the surface like cream. And then we can truly
    	begin to enjoy the wonderfullness in one another and quit fussing
    	about the negatives.
    							kim

    re .5 -
    
    If you think the feminist haters on the Donahue show were just "wackos
    with extreme views" and didn't represent anything real, take a look
    at soapbox topic # 408 on feminists...
    

RE .1

Feminist hater: when you get into discussion regarding 'language' and
they roll their eyes.

...................

I disagree! I WILL roll my eyes when I hear the discussion regarding
'language'. It has to do with my personal observation/opinions  of the subject.

It would be wrong for someone to label me a FEMINIST HATER for that
reason alone. Not to mention narrow minded 

Dave

Ah thank you Dave. I was wondering why no one was rising to the bait...
	Mez

 Some of us fish who are lucky enough to be "caught and released" learn to
stop rising at certain baits (unless the presentation is just about perfect). 
:-)

 The Doctah

>(unless the presentation is just about perfect). 

ouch!
	Mez

    	RE: Feminist topic in soapbox (408.*)
    
    	Well, I thought the responses would be a lot worse than they've
    	been so far, considering the attitudes about women that some people
    	routinely display in the 'box.  True, some have included the usual
    	hateful and ugly stereotypes, but considering the sources of those
    	comments, I don't regard them as insults. Other comments were nice!
    
    	One thing that occured to me (shortly after the topic started) was
    	how odd it is that one of the kindest things that can be said about
    	women in such topics (as a COMPLIMENT) is that the "best" women are
    	"TOO BUSY" (with making it on our own) to "waste time" with feminism.
    	It strikes me as odd that being too busy to get involved with political
    	and social change is regarded as a positive trait in women.  (Must be
    	because a lot of people still like to describe the movement as "silly"
    	and feminists as "insecure," which are typical stabs against women.)
    
    	Can anyone imagine reading a comment like this about men, though:
    
    		"Well, politics is fine, but the men *I* truly admire
    		are those who are too busy with their own careers to
    		waste time with it.  Political activists are silly and
    		insecure."
    
    		"Well, sports is fine, but the men *I* truly admire
    		are those who are too busy with their own careers to
    		waste time with it.  Amateur atheletes are silly and
    		insecure."
    
    	Has anyone else ever noticed this trend (to praise women who are
    	"too busy" to be involved with feminism?)
    
    	Three guesses as to what the purpose of this attempt at manipulation 
    	is supposed to be...

    
>    		"Well, sports is fine, but the men *I* truly admire
>    		are those who are too busy with their own careers to
>    		waste time with it.  Amateur atheletes are silly and
>    		insecure."


My wife could say this about me!  8^)