Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Lise, unless your fianc� has a very good reason for not coming up with
    the money before Springtime (he's helping his parents who are out of
    work, etc.), then I'd definitely have a serious heart-to-heart with the
    guy before proceeding toward marriage.  Are his needs going to always
    supercede yours?  Is he going to renege/procrastinate on all future
    commitments?  Will he be supportive when you most need it?  Based on
    your little slice-of-life comments in 881.0, I'd say there is a good
    possibility he'll let you down when you need it most, and who needs
    that from a life partner?  I hope I'm simply suffering from lack of
    information.
    
    Marge
    
    

    Marge,
     No I really do not think you are too far off base saying that he
    might again not be there for me mentally for the rough times pls
    refer to note I think 720. How do I deal with Child's Death.
    
    Again you would realize like I am now that he really wasn't there
    for me then and still wishes not to discuss that subject. He considers
    it closed, though he knows I still feel pain and turmoil.
    
    

    Lise, you might consider a little pre-marital counseling... I think the
    issue of money, of $250, is of little importance as compared to
    generally "being there" for you throughout the good times and bad.
    
    hugs,
    Marge

    It seems to me that you relied on this person in 3 ways:
    -	to keep his word
    -	to take responsibility for his actions
    -	financially
    He seems to me to score pretty low.
    
    Either this doesn't matter to you, or there are aspects of the
    situation I haven't realized, or you should give serious consideration
    to whether this is a good person to share your life with.
    
    	Andrew.
    
    ps sorry, this is perhaps too directly spoken to the original noter to
    be FGD, but I felt it might not seem "supportive" to be so critical of
    the other person involved.

Note 881.19  ICESK8::KLEINBERGER 
    
>I wouldn't advocate 
>    telling her to give up all she's invested, but I would advocate forcing 
>    her to sit down with him...

Gale, please, tell me this was an unintentional misphrasing.

D!

    Re: .5

    D!...  All, I am saying (hey, maybe I'm not saying it too well but,
    I'm trying)...

    Is that she should go to him, and in a non-threatening space, and say, we
    have to solve this... and this doesn't mean just this one incident,
    but they need to talk about how finances are going to work, and talk
    really soon before too much more gets added.

    I've watched too many early marriages almost (and actually) go under
    because the finances were just not discussed.  I think finances and
    children (whether to have them, how to raise them, etc), are probably
    two of the very most important things to have settled before you walk
    down an aisle (or stand in front of a JP).

    I think this one $250.00 is a symptom that says there are things that
    have not been talked about. I was only trying to tell her to force
    herself to sit down and talk, even if she might not be comfortable with
    doing that.

>    D!...  All, I am saying (hey, maybe I'm not saying it too well but,
>    I'm trying)...

I was just objecting to the phrase "I advocate *forcing* her to...";
I couldn't really believe you advocated forcing Lise into any decision, 
but I just wanted to make sure.

>    have not been talked about. I was only trying to tell her to force
>    herself to sit down and talk, even if she might not be comfortable with
>    doing that.

Ah, so it was a misphrase, you meant she should force herself to do it...
okay, that's fine, I won't disagree, just wanted to make sure.

D!

    
    
    You may feel that you handled the situation as an adult, but
    you treated him as a child.  Someone to "take care of."  You
    were willing to take responsibility for his responsibilities.
    His car problems are not your problem.  His lack of money is
    not your problem.  The appropriate response to his insensitive
    moaning about his problems would be "Gee, sounds as if you have
    some tough decisions to make.  Good luck and I'll be interested
    in hearing how you solve your problems."
    
    Deborah
    

    I agree with -.1
    
    Now that he is off "the hook" this time, when you are married, it may
    get even worse.  
    
    I don't make all THAT much money but if I needed a fast $50/mo I would
    do it by using my car less for errands of pleasure.  Carry a sandwhich
    instead of eating out, not buy any extras for myself while the
    commitment is over my head.  
    
    I have had to do that many times, and I can pull the belt very tight
    when I have to.  I would love to have double my salary, but everyone
    has extras be it cable tv, daily newspaper, smokes (if one smokes - I
    don't), cokes (I love them).
    
    If you rush to the rescue now, later when joint credit can affect both
    you may end up taking care of more and more and more.  You'd be
    surprised how fast that occasional candy bar, magazine adds up.  When I
    was a single parent, emergencies came up more often than I'd like.  I
    remember one period when it was meat once a week for me, so Kim could
    have some each night etc. etc.
    
    Unfortunately, I am/was too trusting and took too many people at their
    word.  Now I make sure I can make up the slack if someone else does not
    live up to their commitment.  I guess that is why my share of the bills
    includes the housepayment because I know I WILL not matter what (even
    if picking up aluminum cans etc) I will carry through.
    
    Until you have been deserted while stationed overseas and had the
    military bring you home because you do not have a sponsor and his
    parents obviously took his side and mine said You made your bed ....
    Yes I can fully sympathize, but do take a look into the future.
    $250 is the least of the bills once you are married and try to settle
    down in a home etc. etc.
    
    Cathy

    I think that .8 and .9 are _probably_ correct, but...
    
    Perhaps he has already plugged all leaks to survive.  Perhaps he
    has no flexability.  Perhaps the car _would_ have to be the next
    thing to go.  You are probably right in giving in if these things
    are true.
    
    From your reaction, your obvious lack of comfort with the decision
    to _let him off_, I think you might want to find out more.  I also
    think that your relationship _is_ damaged unless you resolve for
    yourself that letting him off is the right decision.  My advise
    would be to question him more on the possibilities raised in the
    last two replies.  Is the car _really_ the next sacrifice?  You
    might think that this (could turn into) confrontation might end
    a relationship you want to save, but my guess is that the realtionship
    will be lost anyway if you are not satisfied that he is fair (=
    evidence of love) to you.  I think that you think you avoided this
    obsticle, and I believe you haven't.
    
    Bud

    .11> think I have avoided this obstacle......
    
    No not avoided but worked it through!  I am thinking that here is
    a man who by the courts decision, has 3 three children to take care
    of each and every weekend!  
    
    Please tell me what purpose it would serve to make him pay me and
    not be able to fulfill his obliagation to his ex and the courts?????
    
    Pls note We have agreeed that he can repay me when the car gets
    fixed, or we know the terms of the loan agreement, if the car turns
    out to have more damage than the garage orignally thought.
    
    

    
    
    It appears that you and I come from totally different schools
    of thought.
    
    He has 3 children to care for thru his OWN decision, not the
    court's.  He also had/has an obligation pay expenses involved
    with his most recent decision (any time one runs the risk of
    pregnancy, one had also better be prepared to deal with the
    consequences).
    
    In several of your notes, I heard a lot of pain and anger.  I
    also heard you putting your needs, (financial AND emotional),
    on the back burner so he would not be negatively impacted.
    
    However, I also hear you saying that you have resolved this
    situation to your own satisfaction, and that's really all that
    matters, isn't it?  
    
    D.
    

    Yes I have resolved this matter as far as I am concerned!
    
    This is my last entry in Woman Notes for my assignment has ended,
    and no nw one in sight!
    
    I would like to take the time herre to thank everybody who has given
    me advice, shown concern, or blasted me in any of my notes.
    
    Lise

    Hey, write if/when you come back.  You'll be missed....
    
    And I hope everything works out for the best!
    
    -Jody