Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Marilyn,

Even though I'm a bit younger than you, I have been going through the
same dilemna: freedom vs. security. Should I trade the security of a job 
at DEC for the freedom to do what I want musically?

After a lot of soul-searching, I have concluded that if you want something
badly enough, there is probably a way to get it. I know that sounds like a
cliche, but try thinking about it like this:

Let's pretend you have _made a decision_ that you want to spend the next five 
years traveling around Europe. Okay, the decision has been made. But holy
cow! How are you going to support yourself when you get older!

_That_ is your dilemna. Not "should I stay or should I go", but "now that I
have decided to go, how can I have some measure of security."  Put your
energy toward working on _that_ problem, rather than assuming that it can
only be one or the other. Ask yourself, "what resources do I have?
What jobs could I get if I quit and want to come back to the work force in
five years? What investments can I make? Could I maybe get a job where I
work part of the year and can have the rest of the year to travel? Would
I be happy working in Europe instead of just traveling? Could I get 
temporary jobs in my field to keep my skills up and make extra money in 
between trips? Etc."

Find a practical way and do it.

Maybe I'll see you if I get a gig in Europe!

Roberta

    Okay, Marilyn, what if you *don't* do what you want to do?  What
    if your circumstances become such that you *can't* do what you want
    to do?  If you never try, you'll never fail; however, you'll also
    never succeed.  If you have the money, and you have the dream, and
    the job really isn't so important that you couldn't find another,
    why not follow your heart?  
    
    You might want to sit down and write down the pro's and con's of
    going and not going, and let that help you make a decision.  If
    you own a house, you will have housing when you return.  If you're
    short of funds at first, you could conceivably rent out a room to
    help out until you find another job.  Perhaps when you returned,
    your perspective would be broadened to the point that your life
    could take on a totally new and exciting direction in the job arena.
    
    One thing *is* likely though, if you don't shake things up a little
    bit now and then, you'll begin to stagnate and become more set in
    your ways.  When this happens, the mind begins to fade and senility
    can set in.  You sound too vibrant and realistic to me to let this
    kind of "settling in" happen to you.
    
    If you want to discuss this via MAIL, write me and we can chat further.
    
    Holding Good Thoughts for You,
    
    Barb

    Why not take a personal leave of absence? They can be up to
    three months long. While that may not be enough time to get
    fed up with a wandering life it will probably be enough time
    to a) use up most of your money and b) get some of the 
    wanderlust out of your system. If neither one of those things
    happen you will probably at least find out for your self if
    you really want to chuck it all and drop out altogether.

    			Alfred

    
    Follow your bliss (Joseph Campbell)... and let the chips fall where
    they may.  We have no guarantees anyway in life, no matter what
    we decide to do.  Do what makes you happy.  You can always worry
    about tomorrow later.  Besides, after raising those chicks, you've
    earned your place in the sun_:-)
               
    Have a good time.
    
    Mary (whoes youngest child is now 18 ... and counting...)

    Dear Marilyn,
    
    Analyze it, plan it and GO FOR IT.
    
    A goal without a plan is only a dream.
    
    Kate
    

re: leave of absence

I was in a class a couple weeks ago with a woman that took a year off to
travel the world. Her stories of the trip were fabulous, if I can find
the class list I can send you her name if you'd like. At any rate, you
should talk with your manager about a leave, I don't know the exact policy
but I think you can take a year off but with no guarantee that you'll get the
same job back. But whatever happens, I think you should do it.

Jenna

    
    If you already have 5 years at DEC, as of 7/1/89 you will be fully
    vested.  This means that you could retire if you're over 55 and be
    insured and collect retirement at either 62 or 65, whichever you want. 
    
    If it means waiting until July 1st to have some security, then I say
    wait.  That's less than 2 months.  For your sake, it would be worth it. 
    I wish I could take time off like that also.  It sounds like fun and
    something worthwhile doing as long as you plan for contingencies which
    could take the fun out of it. 
    
    Whatever you decide to do, you're the only one who really knows all the
    circumstances surrounding your life and, therefore, the only one who
    can anticipate all the problems you would have to confront.  If,
    however, it can be worked out, then I say go for it.  
    
    Be glad to talk with you more in depth if you want.  My node is CIMNET.
    
    GOOD LUCK whatever you decide.
    
    Connie
    

    Having gone through the same though process...
    As a couple of people have suggested, look into the DEC policy
    for a leave of absence.  Although you are vested, the amount of
    $$ you receive upon retirement will decrease by a considerable
    amount if you should chose to retire early.
                         
    

    A leave of absence may be a good idea.  But I have one question, you
    mentiond something about being (at least partial) financial support for
    2 of your grandkids.  If you do decide to take some time off, what
    would happen to them?  What other kind of arrangements could be made
    for them?  I don't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but I worry
    about the babies.....
    
    Becky

    If a leave of absence is an option, by all means try that route
    first.  Go to Europe for three months and either come back to Digital
    or don't!  A personal leave of absence is subject to your manager's
    approval, though.
                                             
    Even if it's not, don't give up your dream.  I like .1's perspective.  
    Make the issue _how_ can I do this, not _can_ I do this?  Then start 
    planning.
                                             
    Gee this seems so clear when it's someone life.
    
  
    Re .7 and being vested 7/1/89:                              
                                        
    I passed my five-year anniversay in April.  I thought I was already
    vested as of that date.  Have I not read the benefits book carefully
    enough?
     
    
    

    my understanding is that to be 100% vested, you need to be full
    time for 10 years.  50% vested in 5 years. am I wrong????
    
    vivian
     if so....100% vested in '90

    	The leave of absence sounds like a good idea to me, too (for
    	a number of reasons.)
    
    	First off, if you spent 3 or 4 months traveling, it would be
    	enough time to know whether or not you would enjoy spending
    	a period of *years* doing it (if that's what you are contempla-
    	ting.)
    
    	Having spent 3 and a half months traveling in Europe myself
    	(when Ryan was a baby,) I can tell you that spending *months* 
    	on a traveling vacation has a far, far, FAR different feel than 
    	spending two, three or even four weeks traveling.
    
    	Your reaction to the experience of being on the road for a number
    	of months would be unique for you as an individual, of course,
    	but I found that even though we had an incredibly wonderful
    	time in Europe for three and a half months, I was glad when
    	it was time to go home.
    
    	I started missing the United States, and feeling homesick for
    	Hawaii (and I was ready to go on with the next phase in my life
    	after over 100 days abroad.)  
    
    	That was just *me*, of course.  Perhaps you'd feel differently,
    	and taking a leave of absence would give you a chance to find
    	out for sure if staying there would be appealing to you.
    
    	If three or four months turned out to be enough to satisfy your
    	wanderlust (as it was for me,) then you could come home and
    	*still* have your security.
    
    	Do what's best for YOU, of course, but you might want to consider
    	a compromise like a leave of absence until you're sure what
    	kind of long commitment you really want to make.
    
    	Take care (and please let us know what you decide!!)

Marilyn,

Talk to your personal person about a leave of absense. I believe a personal
leave is for three months but can be extended. Your benefits continue during
your leave and that way you leave your options open.

Roberta is right. Think about what you want to do and then figure out how
to get it. In this process you need to think about what trade-offs you
are willing to make and not make. (The level of security may be one of the
trade-offs.) Also you might think about how you will feel if you don't
do this. You have options, you just have to figure out what they are.

As you know from some of our discussions in April, I have been going through
this process also. Good luck, and if you want to send me mail - feel free!

Muggsie

    Marilyn,
    
    You have been getting such good advice.  I sincerely hope that you
    go through with your dream.  I lived in France for 2 years from
    the ages of 19 to 21.  I was an "Army Brat" when I arrived and departed
    as a civilian employee of the Army.  Anyway, it was an experience
    that will always be with me.  I traveled extensively.  I'd love
    to return.  
    
    I also have an "empty nest" and I know just how you feel.  Lately
    I've been feeling that this is my only go-around at this LIFE and
    I want to make the most of it.  You can only be the "Good Girl"
    for so long.
    
    Do the pre-planning and the pre-thinking but please keep in mind
    that sometimes there is goodness in spontaneity.
    
    In regards to .9, I obviously don't know what the situation is with
    your two grandchildren but if they have capable parents maybe that's
    where the responsibility should be.  Take care of what has to be
    taken care of and then GO!!!
    
    I admire you.  Are you going to go alone?  What an adventure...
    
    								jl
    

    There is a book, 'Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway' by Susan Jeffers,
    which may get you motivated toward your decision.  No matter what
    you choose to do, go stay or wait, you can't lose.  The basic premise
    is that every decision is a win-win decision.  I hope you can find
    it.  If you need the ISBN I'll find the person I lent mine to and
    get it for you.
    
    Isn't a crossroad exciting?

    Why don't you apply for a DEC position in Europe???  I understand
    WC2 positions turnover rapidly in most European Countries (in DEC).
                                            
    You can keep your job and visit the sites!
    
    Contact GIA Headquarters in Acton-Nagog.

    Not to be a killjoy, but Digital probably won't go to the fuss of
    getting a work permit for the WC2 level -- this is not meant to be a
    slur; I've been there.  Work permits are hard to get -- just as it is
    extremely hard to get permission to live and work here in the US if you
    aren't a citizen, or related to a citizen, or married to a citizen...
                                                                         
    Also, probably isn't very useful to contact GIA regarding positions  
    in Europe.  Europe is a region unto itself.  The GIA is basically    
    everything that isn't Europe or the US (you know, places you really
    think of as having lots in common like Canada and Japan and South
    America).
                            
    Helen
    

    Do it! Call Personnel today and find out about LOA.  I agree with
    previous responses that 3-4 or even 6 months will probably be enough
    to give you a taste and see if you want to do this for a longer
    period.  Don't give up the security of a position at DEC. You can
    have both!
    
    Have you been to Europe before? On vacation even? Definitly travelling
    by backpack will be a different experience.  If you go to Ireland,
    don't miss the Youth Hostel in Cannemarra Bay, about 1/2 hour north
    of Galway.  If it's still there...in 1972 when I was a student,
    it had no running water or electricity and we had fresh fish dinner
    provided by the local fishermen..for free, which was great for me
    living on about $3 a day.
    
    Also I agree with another noter, after months of this, you might
    be very happy to return to USA, your comfy bed with clean sheets,
    and your own cup of coffee in the a.m.  still, go for it!
    Let us know how you do, in fact, you might find some European DEC
    friends via this conference or another.
    
    Happy trails!
    Beth

    Two little suggestions:
    
    For that three-month leave of absence, rent your home to some
    frantic people whose new home isn't ready yet, but who've sold
    their old one.  (Preferably Deccies, of course.)  You'll have to
    find someone to do emergency maintenance and the like, but the
    rental income should make it all worthwhile.  (Then you'll know
    if you should sell or rent if you're going to bomp around Europe
    for more than three months.)
    
    Decide on one (or a few) thing(s) to really study.  You mentioned
    cathedrals, so consider studying stone carvings, or tapestries,
    or researching the lives of the saints they commemorate, or finding
    out why they were built on that particular site, or...  You can
    discard or change what you're studying, but it's better than feeling
    that you are wandering aimlessly.
    
    							Ann B.

    	Speaking of finding things to study in Europe...
    
    	We spent a total of five weeks in Paris (out of the three and
    	a half months we were in Europe,) and I spent at least 4 entire
    	days at the Louvre during that time.
    
    	I would have spent more time, probably, but strollers were not
    	allowed, and my baby used to get pretty heavy in the backpack
    	after 5 or 6 hours on my feet.  :-)
    
    	During the days I did spend at the Louvre, however, I rented
    	audiotape "tours" (in English) of a number of areas in the Louvre.
    	Headphones were provided, so I could get an in depth explanation
    	of everything I was seeing (the tapes would direct you as to
    	where to turn and what to look at next.)

    	Those taped tours were *wonderful*!!  I learned from French
    	mothers that I could keep the baby occupied for a long time
    	by letting him knaw on small pieces of French bread on my back
    	(he only had two teeth.)  Also, he was nearly eye level with
    	a lot of adults (in my back pack,) so people *always* stopped
    	to talk to him and smile at him.
    
    	Most other days, we spent walking (picking a new part of the
    	city every day via the subway.)  In fact, during the entire
    	three and a half months, Ryan and I logged most of our miles
    	(along with the stroller) just walking around and casually
    	taking in the sights and the atmosphere of wherever we were.
    
    	It was a great experience!!