Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Don't feel alone, Ann.  I've had moments like that myself.  I think
    that part of the reason is that I feel a such a strong bond with
    the other women in this note; therefore, I make myself more vulnerable
    to their opinions and comments than I do to some of the men in this
    conference (primarily the ones who seem hot to challenge virtually
    anything that comes along for whatever reason).  On the other hand,
    there are a few men in this conference about whom I feel about the
    same way and whose opinions I value and pay attention too.
    
    Frequently, I'll simply hit *NEXT UNSEEN* rather than read a reply
    from a woman with whom I disagree rather than run the topic into
    the ground.  I'm here for support and to support, rather than debate
    another person's opinion.  Belaboring a point just isn't my style.
    
    I think it may all boil down to the fact that I have shared more life 
    experiences with other women; we feel similar in many ways and have
    shared many more life expereinces, especially in the area of
    discrimination than I have with most men.
    
    Thanks for bringing this up!  I hadn't given it much thought.
    
    Barb                                          

    I can relate to this topc...I have been a read-only noter here for
    several months but I CANNOT seem to write in here.  I feel intimidated
    here - and this comes from someone who participated in Soapbox!
    
    Perhaps it's because many of you are so eloquent and express my
    sentiments exactly...
    
    I agree with .0 (Ann) that I don't like to challenge other women's
    feelings, but it is especially so here.  It feels like sacred gound
    here.  (And I know that sounds pretty strange in a way!)
    
    But I feel like it would be much worse to be attacked by a woman
    HERE than a man.  Why is this?  I'm not particularly a shy person,
    but this conference has me baffled as to why I am having so much
    trouble participating.
    
    Any help from you other read-only noters will be appreciated!  
    (please!)
    
    Charlotte
    

Well, the timing on this one is nice. I was chatting with a male womannoter
about picking and choosing who one reads, and discussing motivations for just
being here with some of the other comods. And some of the issues that came up
in those discussion fit here. 

I'd like to learn more about other women when I'm here in womannotes. I don't
find that I learn best by challenging and, indeed, I'm sure we've all noticed,
that challenges can degrade rapidly into 'heat and no light' discussions in a
notesfile. So, it makes good sense to me that I don't challenge women much,
though I might ask questions when a woman says something completely new. If it
gets heated, and it's an issue that I _really_ feel the need to work on, I'll
take it off line. For instance, I had a lovely discussion about the 'stay at
home topic' with Joyce Lamotte. And, while I was feeling threatened by some of
the things she said in the notesfile, I found that we were able to do some
really useful give and take via mail. And, I was able to _finally_ visualize
some positive stay-at-home scenarios. Thanx Joyce!

Because I'm putting so much energy into women, I occasionally get sloppy with
my interactions with men. And I often regret it. If they're men I know, again,
I'll take it offline.

And, as several other replies here notes, I come here for support. 
	Mez

    Today I got a mail message regarding my previous note - it was a
    great message (and I may quote from it sometime when I feel more
    like bringing up the subject) - but what struck me most was how
    any of us could ever leave DEC once we had discovered mail and notes!
    
    Anyway, just entering my note and then having mail because of it
    made me realize - *who csres what anyone thinks - some people really
    do understand*.  And I do like this conference - I'm astounded
    sometimes because others have the same ideas I do! ;^)
    
    But not all....and even tho I'm astounded by that too, I need to
    hear those *other's* viewpoint.  So encourage, flame or whatever,
    I'm ready.
    
    Halleluhah!
    
    Charlotte  (if only I could find some cute way to sign off!)
    

    RE.5
            Congratulations!  I understand you new found "freedom" very
    well.  I to, feel a strange reluctance to answer any notes in this
    conferance.  As I have said here before, I get a feeling (in some)
    of a desire for inclusive equality....but they want it done seperatly!
    Hence the reason for my Personal_Name.
    
    Dave

   This topic bothers me and I've been thinking about it.  Consider...
    
    	If women hesitate to enter a dissenting opinion here, then
    	what in heaven's name are men feeling?
    
   I recently received a mail message from a person who had this to
   say about -WN-:
    
    	"It seems that whenever a note is written...it is viewed
    	through a microscope and criticised not for what is WRITTEN
    	but for perceptions of intent.  Immediately the worst possible
    	intent is assigned to the note, and it is defiled for that
    	intent".
    
  Now I happen to believe this does happen.  And whether or not it's
  true, I think men think it happens more often to them.  But that's
  not really on the subject...
    
  My point is that for some reason, I truly believe that this conference
  does not feel "comfortable" for a lot of people.  I feel too many
  people do not understand what the "women's movement" or "feminism"
  mean anymore - maybe we need a name change - but in the meantime,
  there's something a little hostile here......and this has been 
  bothering me for a while now.
    

    
    
    re .387>  I feel this conference is for *issues and topics
              of import and interest to women*.  Although the
              concept of feminism may correctly or incorrectly,
              with admiration or with contempt be applied to 
              various notes and/or people in this conference
              it is *not*, at least by my perception, the
              dominating theme or flavor of this notes-file.
    
              I feel in this light give-and-take on any particular
              issue  can be stripped of any pre-conceived prejudices 
              regarding feminism (as ill-founded as they might be).
    
    Luis
    

    RE:  .8 Luis
    
    	Sorry, but I disagree - this a very political conference.
    	Of course, it involves topics of interest to *women*, but
    	believe me, the women here are quite aware of "the 
    	movement" or what have you....
    
    	What concerns me is the fact that this conference is 
    	alienating a lot of men...and women....and I feel this
    	is a step backwards.
    
    	FWO - FGD - things like this...

    re .9
    
    It seems to me that it has a certain feminist flavor.  If I really
    don't want that, I use QUARK::Human_Relations.
    
    P.

    
    I think it just *seems* like there is one particular slant to this
    conference because every third note seems to end in some argument
    about doors (I swear the next time I see the word DOORS it better
    have something to do with Jim Morrison!!) or some such topic that
    immediately draws battle lines.  But there are a lot of issues of
    interest both serious and "lite".  I'm reluctant to start any myself
    because of my sex but I think that more participation might add
    to the soup (come to think of it soup is a subject I would *love*
    to talk about)
    
    Luis

    There was a piece on the national television news last night
    about the Other Washington, the city with a poor black majority.
    
    The reporter remarked that blacks in that city were reluctant to
    criticize their black mayor, who appears to be both ineffectual
    and corrupt, because they feared that it would open the door to
    a white man takeover of their city, and with it, the last bit of
    control over their lives.
    
    							Ann B.

    I am a new noter, but not so new that I will not reply when
    I think that the subject is something I can reasonably contribute
    to.
    
    Perhaps I have a thick skin--or myopia--but the "slant" towards
    the feminist/activist "party line" does not particularly bother
    me.  I consider myself having been *born* a feminist, but I
    recognize that my version of feminist may not be that of another
    feminist.  I am an activist on several levels, but I choose the
    level at which I can/will participate--and yet still see myself
    as a full participant.
    
    I have not written enough or long enough to have had any challenge
    to my remarks, but I will generally go on the premise that I
    never explain, justify or defend my remarks except off-line.  Nothing
    bores me more than to get caught up in someone's nit-picking over
    incorrectly understood statements.  
    
    This notes conference has been grand reading, and most helpful on
    several occasions when I was astounded to find that the problem under
    discussion was shared by others and not my exclusive ownership.
     
    I hope that those who feel intimidated or uncomfortable will re-think
    their feelings and recognize that everyone has something to offer
    in this conference, and that no one is right or wrong---everyone's
    opinion is just that:  *one person's opinion*.
    
    Marilyn

    <--(.16)
    
    Trust a folkie to say it so clearly ;')
    
    						=maggie