Conference turris::womannotes-v2

       
       English-speaking travelers often have to deal with strange
       translations, such as those posted in .0.
       
       On the other hand, the nearly total absence of the knowledge or
       use of foreign languages throughout the U.S. makes it impossible
       for non-English speaking people to visit the U.S. unless
       accompanied by an English speaker.  (And that's a shame.) 
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    	On the 4th of December, there was some kind of book sale
    	in Manchester, NH. Lederer's book was on sale (according
    	to the _Nashua Telegraph_). Well, I remembered the book
    	sale about 30 minutes before it was over, and because I
    	live in Nashua and would never have found the place in
    	time, I didn't get to buy the book.
    
    	Does anyone have some idea where (or how) I could obtain
    	this book?
    
    	Scott

    Actually, the line from the Japanese hotel room, "Please to bathe
    inside the tub" is a cultural difference, not a gaffe in translation
    or something on that order. In public baths in Japan, the bather
    washes him- or herself will squatting on the deck beside the tub
    (which is more like our hottubs than our bathtubs). They don't
    actually get into the tub until they're done washing and they sit
    in the water to relax.
    
    I don't know if home bathing is the same as public bathing or the
    same as American home bathing, but is quite likely that a certain
    number of accidents prompted that notice.
    
    --- jerry

    If you had the pleasure of catching Jay Leno on the Tonight Show
    the week of 11/28, you may have heard his recitations from the
    "Anguished Language".
    
    Yes, it is somewhat eye-opening to see our language misuse as so
    prevalent in other countries, but you should have heard the misuse
    from our own natives!
    
    He was reading some actual letters (the genuine articles were sent
    to him just for the show and to prove their authenticity) from
    mothers/fathers excusing their children from a day of school.
    
    The misuse of words was comical; however, he did point out the
    poignancy in his jocularity: "Is our educational system at fault?",
    he questioned.
                  

    RE: .4 (Boy, are you gonna be sorry you asked) :-)
    
    Is our educational system at fault? Yes and no. The lack of
    parental support for teachers and education is at fault. The lack
    of any gonads on the part of administrators is at fault. The idea
    that children have been given....that school is "entertainment"
    and that to announce "I'm bored" is a signal for any and all adults
    in the vicinity to somehow try to make school into MTV.
    
    I could go on. I will spare you. (and my blood pressure)
    
    Now back to our regularly scheduled topic. 
    
    --DE
    

    I started reading this note and was quite amused.  
    
    I figure it this way, hey at least they are trying to speak
    our language.  What about us?  How good are WE at speaking
    theirs?
    
    Before we throw stones at others, we better take a look at
    ourselves first.
    
    

Re:  .6 by WFOOFF::GONCALVES

>    Before we throw stones at others, we better take a look at
>    ourselves first.

Amen, Shelly.  Many foreigners have been forced to learn English, in part
because of the economic dominance of the US.  Since we have been economically
self sufficient for a long time we have been able to get away with avoiding
communicating with others in their language.  Now that the economic situation
is changing (and we are forced to export more), it is more and more necessary
for us to communicate in other languages.  And we are way behind others in
that department.

When I was in sixth grade I lived in Belgium for a year.  I had to learn
French, and my mistakes were made in full public view of a class full of
Belgian sixth graders.  It was a very humbling experience at times.  I can
never read what others do to English without remembering my own experiences
with French.  While I did find the mistakes amusing, I have some very real
empathy for those who wrote them.  We might all do well to keep that in mind.
Some day many of us may be in a foreign country, and not too expert in their
language.

					--Q (Dick Wagman)

    Amen twice.  The constructions are indeed funny in and of themselves,
    but the humor starts to get a little wry for those of us who've had to
    struggle with an unfamiliar language in the midst of native speakers.
    Gives ya a whole new perspective, I guarantee it.  
    
    I occasionally read of some socio-linguistic gun we shoot ourselves in
    the foot with in latin- or germanic-speaking countries and shudder at
    the thought of what we must be doing in the languages of the Pacific
    Rim.  It's a wonder we don't hear the gales of laughter all the way to
    Maynard! 
    
    						=maggie

    Are you  thinking  of the Chevy Nova? (No Va means "doesn't go" in
    Spanish.)

    Yeah, that's one of them, David.

    my favorite fractured translation is Frank Perdue's slogan:
    
      'It takes a tough guy to make a tender chicken'
    
    It was translated into Spanish such that the meaning was distorted
    somewhat...
    
      'It takes a sexually excited man to make a chicken affectionate'
    
    
	Ann      
    

     We monolingual and monocultural Americans are sure to change if
    the United States stays on it's current trend in the marketplace.
    In a few years we'll all be speaking Japanese and German.
    
    ( I am half-kidding) May I be exempt from flames, PLEASE!
    
    Kate

    re -1 NO!

    But first, Spanish!

    Can't remember where I first saw this, but...
    
    "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" when translated by computer into Russian
    becomes "Invisible Maniac" :-)

    Hi.  In response to your last note, someone told me that ...
    
    "Out of Sight, Out of Mind"
    
    translates in German to be ...  "Blind and Insane".
    
    :^)
    
    Susan

    Similarly, a well-known phrase translated from English to Russian
    and back again supposedly came out
    
    	"The ghost is ready but the meat is raw."
    
    

    There are a lot of jokes like this about supposed literal translations
    of colloquial sayings.  The one about "Out of sight, out of mind"
    is one of the more popular ("Invisible Insanity" is the version I've
    seen most.)  Sometimes it's told as coming from a new translating
    computer.
    
    Like the legends about Chevy Nova meaning "Won't Go" in Spanish,
    and "Coke adds life" translated as "Coke brings your ancestors back
    from the grave", I think that there isn't much reality to these
    stories.
    
    					Steve

    
    re -.1
    
    believe it or not, those two instances happen to be true.

    Re: .19
    
    I used to think so too, but I've seen both stories neatly debunked
    by people fluent in the relevant languages.
    
    				Steve

    	RE:  .21
    
    	> the ghost is ready but the meat is raw?
    	>> ... hoping the original phrase is obvious (yes, it's clean)...
    	> It's not obvious to me.
    
    	Ever heard of a phrase along the lines of "The spirit indeed
    	is willing but the flesh is weak"?  [See New Testament, Matthew,
    	XXVI, 41]
    

re .20

	Could it be that the problem was that the phrases were translated
	by someone who wasn't quite as fluent in the target language as they
	should have been? And that they made a bad translation with the
	results shown? A person more fluent in the target language (and
	culture) would have made a more appropriate translation.

						Tom_K

    re:.20
    
    I don't know who you asked, Steve, but "[no] va" *is* the third
    person singular (as well as the formal second person singular)
    for "[doesn't] go", unless my memory of Spanish has completely
    gone to the dogs.
    
    --- jerry

    to further rathole...
    
    re (-.1) 
    I think it is NO VA as was mentioned a few notes back.
    After all its "no se" for I don't know.
    and "no hablo ingles" for I don't speak English...etc
    

    Re: .26 - .28
    
    It's been less than 12 years since I've studied Spanish.  "No va"
    does, in fact, mean "doesn't go."  If anyone has any burning doubts
    about this burning issue, I will mail them photocopies of the
    appropriate pages of my Spanish textbooks.

Many many years ago, I was working in Germany at an automated meat processing
plant.  There were a bunch of LSI-11 systems scattered around the plant floor
running some local proces control stuff and communicating with the main 11/70.

Some benevolent soul had translated the operating instructions from English
into German.   The german text caused a lot of confusion by referring to the
HALT/ENABLE switch on the LSI as the "HALT in nebel" switch.  "HALT in nebel"
loosely translates as "stop in fog!"


				Nigel

    Regarding "Nova" and "no va"...
    
    I never claimed that "no va" didn't mean "does not go" in Spanish.
    I said that the story about the Chevy Nova not selling in Mexico
    because of its name was bunk.  Here's my source; there's discussion
    of other naming myths (and supposed real blunders) in other replies.
    
    				Steve
    
    
    
              <<< ASIMOV::DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MARKETING.NOTE;1 >>>
                   -< Marketing - Digital Internal Use Only >-
================================================================================
Note 501.26                     what's in a name                        26 of 40
DARTS::DIAZ "Changed pants, I had a hole-in-1"       21 lines  19-AUG-1988 14:12
                               -< NOVA = NUEVO >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re .25
    
    Every  time I read about the Chevy Nova supposed "naming  blunder", I
    want to set things  straight.   So here is my chance, at least as the
    mexican  market  is  concerned,  which   I  consider  to  have  great
    similarities to most other latinamerican automotive markets.
    
    The mexican auto market is not a free, open market.   The  government
    has limited the number of companies that sell in  Mexico  to  just  a
    few:  GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, VW, and Renault.   And each company
    only sells a two or three different models.
    
    Of those Nissan, VW and Renault  only  sell compacts and sybcompacts,
    so GM, Ford and Chrysler, have the midsize market for themselves.
    
    So to make this note short, the  Nova  sold  well  in Mexico since it
    didn't have  too  much competition and its name was rarely refered to
    as "no va"  (different  accent  than  Nova).  Nova has in spanish the
    same connotation as in english, that of something new.
    
    OD/

    re:.34
    
    I think the confusion (at least on my part) was your reference
    to "people fluent in the relative languages". If it's the
    marketing (or non-) point of the story is what's bunk, then
    fluency or non-fluency in the languages is irrelevant. The
    only way in which they *would* be relevant is if the "bunk" was
    due to a mistake in translation.
    
    --- jerry