Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    The references to "strident" in the Salaries note reminded me of
    this "feel-good" tidbit.
    
    Late last fall, it was brought to my attention, by someone in a
    position to have a large impact on my career at DEC, that one of
    my personality problems was that I was strident and uncompromising.
    
    I thought, cynically, "hmmm, how strange of a young woman to have
    opinions, to be unwilling to compromise on technical details firmly
    in her range of expertise, especially when the person in conflict
    with her 1) is paying the cost center a lot of money for her expert
    and unbiased opinion, 2) knows nothing whatsoever about the field,
    and 3) is male.  Outlandish!  Behavior unbecoming a ... No humility!"
    
    But it bothered me a _lot_, and I guess that was apparent, because
    the word kept being used by the person in question, so much so that
    I fully expected to see it in my review at some point.  [though
    I'd loooove to watch our personnel group try to find a single man's
    review which described him as "strident"]
    
    Finally I twisted up some nerve, and late this spring the word came
    up again when I was feeling strong and no one else was there.  I
    asked him if he could find a better word for the phenomenon because
    it was one of those words I have a hard time taking seriously, that
    men do not get labelled strident or domineering (yes, he had started
    using that one too) and it's hard for me to think of it as something
    bad when it clearly is a _woman's_ problem and a _man_ cannot suffer
    from stridency.
    
    Some protests of "why I call men strident!  all the time...", but
    since it is one of my hang-ups, he agreed to find another word.
    
    Perhaps some reflection showed him about how often he called men
    strident, because he has not criticized me for that trait in a long
    time.
    
    Perhaps I educated him a little on vocabulary, perhaps he is trying
    to avoid trouble, but I no longer have to listen, smile, and act
    concerned when that person calls me strident.
    
    One small step for a woman...

    Lee,
    
    I just recently took a course "Power Communication Skills for Women"
    and I was amazed at how we are decribed.  She said men use the words
    "domineering" and "manipulating" - "manipulating" was a good one
    to use for an example because when women "manipulate" men use
    "strategy"...I never thought about it until she brought it up. 
    It was a good course and she really had great techinques to use.
    I found it helpful.  Also body language is very important in the
    business world as well.
    
    The worst thing a woman could do is to get defensive....it only
    reinforces in a man's mind what we are....I'm still working on that
    one!  It's so hard sometimes especially when some of those words
    "sting"...ya know!
    
    Ah emotions.....they can do you in sometimes!!!!  
    
    Bobbi
    

    
<    I just recently took a course "Power Communication Skills for Women"
<    and I was amazed at how we are decribed.  She said men use the words
<    "domineering" and "manipulating" - "manipulating" was a good one
<    to use for an example because when women "manipulate" men use
<    "strategy"...I never thought about it until she brought it up. 
<    It was a good course and she really had great techinques to use.
<    I found it helpful.  Also body language is very important in the
<    business world as well.
    
    Bobbi, any handy hints about what body language to use or avoid? I
    find this very interesting as I'm often seen as being somewhat, ahmm,
    strong, in interactions. liesl

    
    	When I go to my health club, I like to do the aerobics classes,
    rather than use the Nautilus machines. I'm often the only man in
    the class, and, every so often I catch a "wiff" that some of the
    women would prefer me not being there. I was even asked what made
    me choose aerobics instead of the (apparently more manly) weight
    training. I explained that it has to do with the muscle I wish to
    develop, the heart, which does not recieve much benefit from lifting
    heavy weights using relatively short bursts of energy. After being
    there for a year and a half, I do feel more or less accepted in
    all of the classes.
    
    	Joe Jas 

Hooray Lee!

"women "manipulate" men use "strategy""

Aye, they both do it...

Jim. 

    Down in the South of England, nobody pays much attention to what you
    drink in pubs. I don't particularly like alcohol; I especially hate
    lagers and bitters, so I tend to stick to Cokes, fruit juices or
    occaisonally Vodka & Orange. A woman friend of mine drinks pints of
    bitter, and commented on her experience up in the North of England. It
    seems the publicans up there assume she's buying a pint for her
    boyfriend; if not they refuse to give her a pint, rather a half-pint
    (or two halves). Somehow a whole pint isn't considered 'ladylike'...
    the reverse happened to me, I got distinctly disapproving looks when I
    asked for an Orange juice.
    
    Pete.

    re drinking
    
    Once, when I had just finished a late shift at the bookstore (in
    harvard square), I felt like a _quick_ drink before walking home.
    I walked in to one of the nearest bars, which was full of blue collar
    men.  Quickly describe my appearance: crew cut, no glasses at the
    time, wearing an old tux jacket, a tie, a man's shirt, and pants
    - not standard at the time.  The place went silent (literally!)
    when I walked in.
    
    I asked how much a beer cost, put down my money.  He got the beer,
    and since I wanted to get the heck out of there, I downed it in
    one swig, put down a tip and left.
    
    I heard applause as I walked out...

    Back in 1975, my then-lover decided to go into the military.
    After she'd taken the various tests (incidentally, her proctor
    told her that she scored higher than anyone he'd ever tested),
    she was telling me about them. In the course of this, she
    mentioned that one test that was combat-oriented she didn't
    have to take, since women weren't "allowed" in combat. When I
    opined that this was sexist, she replied, "I don't mind at all,
    as I don't want to be in combat." When I asked, "Do you think
    that men *do*?", she admitted that I had a valid point.
    
    --- jerry

    re: .6 (sexism in drink choice) 
    
    Neil and I run into this all the time -- I usually order scotch,
    straight up (enough to make cocktail waitrons look at you weird to
    begin with!) and Neil usually has something like a strawberry
    daquiri or a pina colada. 
    
    Probably ninety percent of the time, when they bring the drinks,
    they'll put the hard liquor down in front of Neil and the drink
    with the umbrella in front of me.  

    --bonnie

    I used to work with my father and if we went out for lunch or out
    after work, he would order a glass of wine and I would order a beer.
    Invariably, we were given the wrong drinks by the server.
    
    -Tracy
    

    
    Oh, Bonnie, that happens to me too!
    
    Rita
    

    Maybe you and Tom and Neil and I should go out for drinks some
    night and REALLY confuse them!
    
    --bonnie

    The same thing happens to us all the time!  I also order Scotch,
    or sometimes a liqueur, and Steve *loves* daquiris, margueritas,
    and other sweet drinks.  It's as predictable as the sunrise -- the
    Scotch goes to him and the sweet drink gets set down in front of
    me.
    
    Speaking of drinks, we just got back from vacation.  One of the
    hotels where we stayed had a menu of tropical drinks with a description
    of each one.  One was called something like "La Belle" and the
    description read something like "We concocted this delicacy with
    the ladies in mind -- it's light and delicious and so perfect for
    that tender palate."  That's not exact, but it captures the essence
    of what it said.  I wouldn't have ordered that drink if my life
    depended on it!
    
    							Pat

    Gee, that sounds like the kind of drink Neil would love!
    
    --bonnie

    Well, I guess there haven't been too many triumphs!  No activity in
    this note for quite some time!
    
    I, too, have been in the "drink" situation.  It was fun, though.  I was
    with my boss (years ago), and he ordered a daiquiri while I ordered a
    7&7.  The great part was that a waitress from the bar brought them to
    us (not the woman who'd taken our order), and she got them *right*.  I
    asked how she figured it out, and she said she didn't know, it wasn't
    "logical," but she guessed right.
    
    I used to work in a kitchen supply store, and early one Saturday
    morning, a tall, well-dressed young man came flying into the parking
    lot in a red Corvette.  He was in hurry.  He needed a wedding present,
    and he needed it now.  Pick it out for me, you're a girl!  Wrap it for
    me, you're a servant!  And be faster, you damned slow female!  That was 
    his attitude.  He was obnoxious, overbearing, and (needless to say)
    discourteous!
    
    While quickly wrapping his thoughtless wedding gifts (he didn't even
    care what the couple's preference might be), I decided to show him up. 
    More customers were coming in, and the parking lot was filling up.  As
    soon as I was finished, I grabbed the packages and started out the
    door.  I'd like to point out that he bought large, heavy pots and pans,
    and I'm 5'0" (he was at least 6'4").  I said, "Oh, sir, let me carry
    these out to your car for you!"  He refused, but I was already outside. 
    He turned red and ran after me.  I refused to relinquish the packages,
    insisting that it was my *honor* to serve him.  I did allow him to open
    the car, but I put the packages in myself!
    
    My sarcasm wasn't lost on anyone, and he obviously felt like a jerk. 
    It may not have had a long-term effect on the man,  but it did me
    wonders!
    
    Susan

    Fabulous, Susan!  On a similar note:
    
    A friend, secretary and receptionist to an office of engineers at
    another company, was up to her eyeballs in work.  Her in-basket
    overflowed, and she was madly typing away.
    
    A "big boss" from the home office was in town to meet with the local
    boss, a meeting which wouldn't start for another 20 minutes.  Mr. Big
    was loafing in the hall, obviously at a loss for something to do.  He
    went over to Pam's desk, interrupted her work, and said "Honey, would
    you toddle down and get me a cup of coffee?"
    
    All wide-eyed innocence and smiles, she looked up at him and gushed "Oh
    YES sir! And when I get back, can I shine your shoes, too?"
    
    He got his own coffee.

    I love it (.16).
    
    ed

    
    I remember about 25 or 30 years ago in another company, our manager
    decided that the women were spending too much time in the ladies
    room, so he said that we had to check with him before and after
    each trip to the LR.  One day he was escorting a VP around the
    manufacturing floor and I had to go, I kept signaling him, trying
    to get his attention, but he was too busy showing off for the VP.
    I finally walked right up to him, interupting his conversation,
    and said "I'm sorry to interupt, but I have to go to the bathroom."
    He turned scarlet and motioned me away. The VP gave me a strange
    look, and I said "just following rules" and walked away. On my return
    trip I interupted again to say I was back. After that day we never
    had to report to him again.