Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I've never been through this Linda, but I wanted to say how sorry
    I am...
    
    Lee

    	Linda, you have my sympathies, too.
    
    	Be sure that the doctors keep checking on your progress (and
    	are not making any assumptions about why this is happening
    	to you.)  Make sure that they keep looking for something new
    	that could be contributing to the situation.
    
    	Take care and please let us know how you are doing.
    
    							Suzanne 
    

    Re .0, I've never been through anything like this either, but that
    feeling about your body being out of control reminds me of how I
    felt back when I was 24 and had to have a C-section when I was
    pregnant.  I felt, gee, if I have a body that can get pregnant,
    why can't I have a body that can get the baby out the normal way????
    (If there's a God, She/He/It screwed up there!!! and I suffered
    for it!)
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Lorna
    

    For most of my life I've suffered from long (usually 8-9 days)
    heavy periods with serious cramping -- and because of a family
    history of high blood pressure and other complications, I can't
    take the pill. 
    
    Out of control?  You bet.  Not an iota, no matter what the
    mind-body people say.  The best I can do is hope for peaceful
    co-existence. 
    
    This monthly evidence that I am not in charge of even my body has
    made me a bit fatalistic about the ideas of really controlling
    anything to do with nature -- it's stronger than I am and laughs
    at puny scientific efforts to put reins on it.  
    
    It also strengthened my religious feelings, not in the sense of
    organized religion or theological answers but in an awareness that
    there *is* a power beyond me and beyond my understanding. Even
    worse, that it doesn't behave the way I think a god ought to
    behave.  This awesome power [awesome in the old sense, not the
    new] is as much frightening as comforting -- but I digress. 
    
    --bonnie

    Golly, Linda, I feel sorry for you too.  I have the same problem,
    but so long as I stay on the Pill, I don't have mid-cycle bleeding.
    I was at my gynecologist last week, and he would like to take me
    off the pill again soon because of my age (I turned 35 a few months
    ago - not that I feel any older :-), and I *really* dread it.  I am
    still sufficiently anemic that I usually cannot donate blood, and
    I still have heavy periods compared to most people, but on the Pill
    (I am on lo-ovral) I can use tampons, and my period lasts a little
    more than a week.  When I am not on it, my periods vary from 17
    days apart to more than 50, and I bleed for more than half the cycle,
    and so heavily that I used to use two napkins at once - it really
    ruined my life when I was a high-school kid, since I couldn't do
    any normal activities, or go anywhere where I would be more than
    a half hour's walk from a bathroom, such as hiking, etc. I love
    the outdoors and travelling to places that are off the beaten path
    to do wildlife photography and underwater photography, and I will
    have a really major life-style crisis when I have to give up having
    a halfway normal menstrual cycle.  I also hated having to set the
    alarm clock to get me in the middle of the night to change the d**ned
    napkins to avoid making a mess in my bed (I hate alarm clocks...).
    And I hated never being able to plan to do any of the activities
    I enjoy because I never knew when my period was going to be, stranding
    me indoors near a bathroom, away from the hiking trail, beach, wildlife
    preserve, or whatever.  Ycch!  I suppose it is inevitable that I
    will eventually have to go off the medication (the doctor talks
    about incread risk of heart attacks, which I am not in the least
    bit worried about), but I hate the way it will ruin my life when
    I do - I wish I could stay on it until I finally go through menopause,
    which, if my mother (who had the same hormone imbalance problem when
    she was younger) is any indication, is twenty or more years out.
    Apart from this stuff and my hay fever (which is finally under control
    thanks to the new medecine I'm on for it - YEAH!!), I am an extremely
    healthy person; I heardly ever get colds or the latest "bug" that
    fells my friends and my husband (he has the "headache and body ache"
    one that is going around now: he gets everything that goes through
    his office, the poor guy).
    
    I realize that this isn't much help!  But you are not alone, and
    you have our sympathy, and our prayers.  Or mine, anyhow!
    
    In sisterhood,
    /Charlotte
    

    Linda, I have never had your basic problem, and in gratitude for
    this I have always tried to pay attention to the problems and
    the solutions that other women have.
    
    1.  I've had breakthrough bleeding for two reasons.  The first
    time it was because I had just started taking the pill, and I was
    just `settling in'.  The other set of times (within the past year)
    has been because the pill I am taking does not have *quite* as
    strong a dosage as my body would like.
    
    2.  Your doctor is happy with your dosage -- except that your
    doctor is suggesting that you *double* it for a month!  I think
    that two things are indicated for you here:  Get a second opinion.
    Escalate to the next highest dosage pill in that pharmaceutical
    series.  (First get the second opinion, explaining that that is
    what it is, then listen to what that doctor says, then maybe
    consider the escalation.)
    
    3.  Since you'll be on vacation with this problem, have your doctor
    recommend a gynecologist/hospital in the area(s) you're visiting.
    
    4.  Some years ago when a friend of mine had a *bad* case of
    breakthrough bleeding (rush trip to the hospital, met there by
    her doctor), it was cured by cauterization of her cervix.  This,
    while a medical procedure, just barely rates as minor surgery,
    since it can be done in an office and (I think) without even local
    anaesthetic.  Thinking back, cauterization makes sense, since that
    is one thing my brother had done for his nosebleeds.  Thinking
    back more, however, reminds me that the final cure for his nosebleeds
    was an increase in vitamin C.
    
    5.  So, why not increase your vitamin C intake?  It can't hurt.
    
    						Ann B.

    A friend of mine had this happen recently.  They had her taking
    *4* pills a day.  She got headaches and other side effects, but
    it got her back into a regular cycle.  Now I think she's down to
    1 pill a day. Maybe you should try several pills a day, as the doctor
    may suggest, in order to "shock" your body back into order.  At
    the point when she went to the doctor, my friend had been menstruating
    for *6* weeks straight (nothing too heavy, just a steadily annoying
    flow).
    
    You have my sympathies also...

    -Jody
    

    Hang in there Linda and think positive!
    
    My sister and I have had some crazy flows, anemia, low blood count
    and etc. The pills, vitamin C, and increase of iron has really 
    improved things. Try to keep your attitude up when you can and
    keep talking to your doctor.
    
    Think positive, when possible and good luck!!!!
    
    Sheryl

    
    TO: Linda and Charlotte
    
    My heart goes out to both of you.
    I've been relatively lucky - whilst at school my periods were very
    painful and used to lay me out two days a month but, thank god(?),
    I seem to have grown out of it......
    
    Re: Vitamin C. This might be a bit "fringe" but in the book "Raw
    Energy" by Leslie Kenton they talk about the specific effects of
    a raw diet on women (amongst other things). It says there that it
    has been established that eating lots of citrus fruit can reduce
    bleeding - apparently there's an enzyme in the pith that strengthens
    the capillary walls and counteracts the "period-hormone" effect
    which weakens them. 
    
    So it could be the Vit. C or it could be the enzymes - but maybe
    worth a try........
    
    Re: Doctors and women's concerns
    I have recently had a needless appendectomy - basically because
    the doctors ignored my input. I like to think I'm assertive and
    I can express myself, but they walked all over me and abused my
    body with a usless operation. So *be strong* Linda - get a second
    opinion, believe in your knowledge of your body. There must be
    something the healers can do - don't let one (or many) narrow attitudes
    keep you suffering.
    
    Let us all know how you get on.
    Best Wishes
    
    Abigail
    
    a

    This reminds me of something I had forgotten.  
    
    My mother had a hysterectomy when I was about 15.  She suffered
    from long, heavy periods due to fibroid tumors for several years
    because she didn't want surgery, either.  We got used to planning
    family outings around her schedule -- "Mom's due on the day before
    Labor Day, so maybe we'd better just have a picnic instead of
    going out in the hills for a hike."  A D&C helped for a while, but
    in two years she was worse than ever, always tired and cross. 
    
    Finally she got so anemic the doctor insisted that she have
    surgery, that she was approaching the point where she was
    endangering her life -- a minor infection could cause serious
    illness because she wouldn't have the strength to fight it off. 
    
    The difference in her behavior was almost instanteneous.  Even
    though she was recovering from major surgery, she had more energy
    from the day she got home.  She was interested in things again, we
    could make plans without worrying about staying near a bathroom,
    and family life got better because she had the energy to put into
    the emotional side again. 
    
    She often says she wishes she had had the surgery when the doctor
    first recommended it, that she feels like she wasted several years
    of her life suffering so she could prove she was tough and strong. 
    
    --bonnie

    I've never had the problem, nor do I know anyone who *has*,
    however, since I am a vertiable font of advice..... [:-)]
    
    First, (I know this isn't easy) work on not being fearful or
    depressed about this. I don't mean "stuff your feelings", but if
    you can meditate, or use religious faith, or whatever, to get to
    a state of "Everything is being done that *can* be. Everything
    will work out."  it won't add anxiety to the problem.
    
    Second, consider consulting a holistic-type doctor as well as your
    regular MD - there may indeed be some type of imbalance, vitamin-wise
    or whatever, that doesn't require surgery.
    
    Hang in there.
    
    --DE
    

    This friend of mine I spoke of told me she once looked at a chart
    of probable causes for "female" conditions.  The heavy bleeding
    she was experiencing had 3 possibilities:  pituitary problems, blood
    diseases, and stress.  In her case, she surmised it was stress,
    and focused on trying to de-stress her life.  That, in addition
    to the hormones, helped a great deal.
    
    -Jody
    

    First off, thanks so much to everyone who has replied in
    Notes and sent me mail messages.  I really hit a low point
    last night, and your concern and advice has given me a big
    lift. 

    You've all given me a lot to think about.  Until I sort it
    all out, all I can say is:  I feel like I've got choices
    again!  I'd sort of talked myself into believing that the
    next step was surgery.  But you've all reminded me that there
    are other options I can and should explore first--and that if
    it does come to surgery, it is not always a fearsome thing.

    I'll keep you posted.  And I'm feeling *much* more positive!

    -- Linda

    Linda,

    I have been reading Womennotes for a while and have not yet written
    anything, preferring to just read.  But I felt that I had to reply to
    your note because I have an idea that might help.

    You mentioned in your base note that when the bleeding started you also
    had cramps.  Have you been taking any painkillers for them?  I recently
    changed doctors and my new one has informed me that certain painkillers
    can make your period last longer than it normally would.  While I do
    not know what caused your condition, if you are taking painkillers they
    could be affecting it and you may want to consult your doctor about it. 

    I hope I have been of some help.

    Jessica

     

    I've gotten a recommendation for a good gyn, whom I will
    see for a second opinion before my next appointment with my
    regular gyn.  I also have emergency contacts in Wichita,
    Kansas, where I'll be for the next 10 days installing
    software (groan), and New Orleans, for a looong leisurely
    Labor Day weekend after that!  :) :) 

    Jessica, thanks for your advice.  I'm not taking a
    painkiller, per se, but I am taking ibuprofen.  I just
    recently heard that, like aspirin, it reduces blood clotting.
    So it could be aggravating things--I'll check on that.

    Thanks to all for your help.  I'll tune in again when I can!

    -- Linda

    Ibuprofen, and other anti-inflammatories bear much looking
    into before and when taking them. There are many negative
    side-effects, so if they can be avoided, do it.
    
    --DE
    

    One of those "side effects" is to reduce the efficacy of oral
    contraceptives.
    
    See you at Worldcon, Linda?
    
    						Ann B.

    Fortunately, I haven't needed the contraceptive effects of
    the Pill since well before I married my SO.  'Nuff said.

    I started with ibuprofen when it came on the market and I
    didn't need the prescription for Motrin anymore (same thing,
    yes?).  But that is interesting--seems like I keep hearing
    about more and more things that interfere with the
    effectivity of the Pill--no wonder I hear about so many women
    who got pregnant while faithfully taking the Pill!

    WorldCon it is, Ann.  See you there!

    -- Linda

    To more-or-less finish up this conversation, I've now had a
    consultation/second opinion (Dr. S.), as well as an
    appointment with my regular gyn (Dr. M.).  After I described
    the last 12 years of problems, patterns of irregularities,
    and treatments I had received, Dr. S. said it looked like the
    course of treatment she would have followed, and recommended
    several things as being appropriate to try next.  Fortunately
    for my peace of mind, Dr. M. also recommended the same
    things.  The next several things are

	o   Check with my mother on whether she took anything
	    suspect during her pregnancy with me.  (I suspect
	    not--she knows my troubles, and the topic would have
	    come up before, but it won't hurt to check.)  Some
	    drugs could have caused a mild genital abnormality in
	    me, such as a weakness in the uterine lining, that
	    we would not otherwise be likely to suspect.

	o   Drop back to my regular dosage of the Pill I've been
	    taking for 2-3 months.  Last month might have been
	    just a fluke...

	o   If I break through again, start doing some stuff
	    we've been stalling on, like sonograms, D&C, etc,
	    mostly in case I've developed a polyp or something
            during the course of treatment which could be
            simulating or obscuring a hormone imbalance. 

	o   Try a different pharmaceutical line of Pill (although
            my current one seems widely regarded as being
            generally the most effective variety for controlling
            menstrual problems) or try supplementing it with more
            estrogen. (I'm already at the highest dose in this
            line, which I hadn't realized.) 

    Both agreed, to my immense relief, that a hysterectomy is
    almost certainly not in my future for several years, if ever.
    My hemoglobin count and blood pressure are back up to my
    normal levels, probably due to the double-dose Pill (and no
    bleeding) for the last several weeks. I adapted surprisingly
    well to the doubled Pill, although I wouldn't want to
    continue using it for an extended time. 

    By the way, for the curious, I discovered a couple new things
    during these conversations that have no direct bearing on my
    troubles, but which I nonetheless found interesting. 

	o   Dr. M. had started me out on a different Pill way
            back when, which I thought was a higher dosage than
            I'm taking now, primarily because the side effects
            were noticeably stronger.  Turns out it was actually
            a *lower* dosage than what I'm taking now:  every
            Pill has both an estrogen and a progestin in it
            (which I knew) in differing quantities, but not
            necessarily the same ones.  Apparently the other
            Pill, although a lower dosage, contained an estrogen
            that my body took less kindly to than the one I'm
            using now.  So this is another vote for going back to
            your doctor when you don't like the side effects of
            your particular Pill!

	o   Dr. S. mentioned that a woman's weight sometimes has
	    an effect on her cycles, and they're not entirely
            sure why.  (Not like runners and ballet dancers
            undergoing intensive training.)  She says she's seen
            women in for fertility counseling, for example, who
            sometimes say something like "my periods used to be
            really regular, but they're not anymore."  In some
            cases these women had a different weight when they
            were regular, maybe as little as 20-30 pounds
            different, sometimes much more--and they often
            experience a return to previous cyclic patterns if
            they return to that weight.  It's as if the metabolic
            "set-points" for the body may affect "set-points" for
            the menstrual cycle also. But noone's quite figured
            out a causal mechanism yet. 

    Thanks again to everyone for their level-headed support,
    advice, and sympathy.

    -- Linda

    Thanks, Linda.  I'm glad you put in that aside about weight and
    menstrual cycles. 
    
    I gained quite a bit of weight this summer -- for the first
    time in my life I'm 30+ pounds overweight.  After gaining that
    five pounds or so, my weight stabilized, but it's still higher
    than I feel comfortable at. 
    
    But for the first time in my adult life, my cycles have been
    coming 26-28 days apart, the flow has been only average -- no
    changing the heaviest tampon I can buy every 30 minutes -- and
    I've had only minor cramping.  This has happened for four
    consecutive months, so I don't think it's a fluke. 
    
    I don't know what to do now.  I feel like a blimp.  But it's
    soooooo nice not to have to schedule trips around bathroom stops .
    . . and to get a good night's sleep without cramps and dashes to
    the bathroom . . . and it *doesn't hurt* . . . 
    
    --bonnie