Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    
    I believe Este Lauder has come out with a new product that
    is similar to "retina".  Has anyone used this Este Lauder
    product?  Any results?
    
    

    re .0
    
    From the news stories I saw, it's not a "miracle", just the only
    thing they've yet found that does anything at all for wrinkles. I'm
    pretty sure it's available only through prescription, and I don't
    believe it's completely without side effects. 

    Most or all of the over-the-counter "solutions" are placebos mixed
    with snake oil (allegorically speaking), though you can bet that
    some will be including formulations that have a similar sounding
    word in them. 

    From what I understand from the news, etc. is that RetinA will not
    make wrinkles disappear, but "over time" may help prevent wrinkles.
                                                             
    This is not a miracle "wrinkle remover" and should be used only
    on recommendation from a dermatolagist.  It may cause burning or
    redness in sensitive skin.
    
    I would be careful using it (if you can get it) without medical
    advise.
    
    cin
    

    Retina irritates the skin so that it swells up.  When a person's
    skin is swollen, the wrinkles are less noticable.
    Skin damage seems to be a high price to pay in order to make 
    wrinkles less noticable.
    
    Nancy-who-has-earned-her-wrinkles-and-is-proud-of-them!

    Retin A has been used for a long time for treating acne.  My doctor
    recommended it to me after a bad sunburn.  I use it once in while. It
    did not make my face swell.  It did not make my face red.  It did not
    erase my wrinkles, as least not yet!!  You have to have a Doctor
    prescribe it. 

    -Dotti

    I think we need a little understanding of the nature of wrinkles
    here.
    
    I have as little as anyone :-) but here are some observations.
    
    Let's use the example of those great gougey furrows on your fingers
    at your knuckles, where your fingers bend.  If you had arthritis
    in a joint so badly that you could not change that joint's position,
    the "bend wrinkles" would eventually go away.  Now, we are talking
    many, many months, perhaps even years, for "eventually" here, but
    it does serve to emphasize that wrinkles are not, um, built-in the
    way hair follicles and sweat glands are.
    
    I gather that what Retin A does is, indeed, cause some skin swelling.
    In the beginning, this produces an appearance of the lessening of
    the wrinkles.  However, as time goes by with continued use of Retin
    A, the new skin cells growing in no longer "know" that they are
    supposed to split here and form a furrow.  Instead, they continue
    growing in even sheets (I'm making this imagery up; it has to be
    wrong at some level.) until they reach the top and become the
    epidermis.  Then, voil�! no more wrinkle.
    
    You can achieve the same effect in some places on your face using
    mechanical means.  The "some places" are those with a good layer
    of flesh under the skin, and a good support of bone under that;
    i.e., your forehead.  Place a thin layer of skin cream or the like
    over the wrinkles there, warm a spoon in water to above skin
    temperature, and iron (!) the wrinkles with the bowl of the spoon.
    Moosh those wrinkles flat, twice a day for *several* months.
    
    Eventually you should see some promising results.
    
    							Ann B.

    From my doctor:
    Retin-A is vitamin A, in a soluble compound that allows the skin
    to absorb the vitamin a.  It has been used for acne treatment for
    very many years.  It has to be by prescription.  Word has it that
    there are waiting list. 
    
    vivian

    My mother, who is 55, has been using RETIN A for a few months, it
    was subscribed to her by her dermatologist.  It makes the top layers
    of the skin peel, which is why it is so godd for acne, but in lesser
    doses it actually reverses the damages that sun has caused, as well
    as helping to reduce wrinkles.  I noticed yesterday how great her
    skin looks, yes, less wrinkles, and they say that even when it is
    used for shorter periods of time and then stopped that it has long
    term benefits.  There was a huge article in USA TODAY a few weeks
    ago about it.  Apparently, even you veterinarian can prescribe it,
    but they don't know the proper dosage, so definately see your doctor.
    Also, many of the pharmaceutical companies who make it are having
    trouble keeping up with demand.  IT DOES HELP REDUCE WRINKLES, and
    what's wrong with wanting to look as young as you feel!!!  (It's
    cheaper than plastic surgery, too!)
    
    Cathy
    

    While we are young, the best thing for wrinkles is prevention.
    The skin is nourished from the *inside* out, so:
    
    1)Drink LOTS of water (8 glasses/day is *not* too much)
    
    2)Massage increases the nutrients to the skin (thru the circulatory
      system)
    
    Dawn
    

    And those are 8 ounce glasses of water, not 4 ounce paper cups!
    
    							Ann B.

    I was prescribed Retin A years ago for acne (which I still have
    - but so does my mother!  Seems to run in the family.).  I used
    it for a month or so, and finally decided that my skin just couldn't
    take it - my face peeded and peeled and peeled, was bright red,
    and looked like I had a terrible sunburn all the time (this was
    in the late fall, too-- don't know what would have happened if it
    had been during a time of year I spend more time outside in the
    real sun).  I don't know if it did anything for wrinkles (i have
    more of those these days than I did then), but the acne came right
    back as soon as my skin recovered from this stuff.

    Retin-A has been dolled out in various strength forms...everything
    from 0.25% to 1.5% on a swab containing alcohol and water also.
    
    I was prescribed Retin-A for almost 3 years to control acne when
    I was a teenager.  At that time (about 8-10 years ago), the strength
    was at 1.5%.
    
    Well, the acne was controlled, alright, but I have been warned to
    avoid direct sunlight on my treated areas (face and shoulders) because
    I now have an EXTREME likelihood of acquiring SKIN CANCER.  The
    concentration was strong enough to penetrate all but the inner most
    layer of the 7 dermal layers.  (And the intent was to keep 1 to
    2 layers peeled off to reduce the dead skin cells that often collect
    surface dirt and clog skin pores.)
    
    Retin-A DOES help the skin absorb Vitamin A.  It is also a drying
    agent, which makes the skin tighten up, not swell up.
    
    AMA articles (from a sister who's a pharmacist) still caution the
    use of it, particularly because strength variations produce different
    results, i.e. tightening versus acne control versus skin damage.
    Each patient seems to require varying amounts of the chemical, and
    economically, it isn't sound to produce swabs or packets in a wide
    range of sizes and strengths.  Some doctors are limited to the 
    manufacturer's production.
    
    My sister recommends having a serious discussion with MORE THAN
    ONE doctor or pharmacist and getting ALL the facts, not only about
    Retin-A, but other forms of "wrinkle" control.  Most major cosmetic
    companies carry them, even AVON.  And some are made for MEN, which,
    because some men have very irritable skin from heavy shaving, these
    creams may be more gentle to the face.  Check with your AVON
    representative and/or browse the cologne counters at a larger
    department store.
    
    Please be careful...It's no fun wearing hats on the beach and a
    cover up to protect my shoulders.  (Bytheway, I got sun poisoning
    once and for my skin type, it was a VERY short exposure time that
    caused it.  I won't know if any permanent damage was done for some
    years, perhaps, but I was younger then and had more rejuvenating
    properties to my skin.)  There is no definitive way to determine
    whether my susceptibility to skin damage has decreased, so once
    the damage is done, protection for life is the only sure fire cure.
    

    RE:.12
    
    Not meaning to digress...What is sun poisoning?
    
    
    Jodi-

    The best way to avoid wrinkles is to stay out of the sun!! Also,
    cleansing the skin very carefully and make sure you include the
    neck using whatever your special regime is.  Overdoing facial 
    expressions such as frowning, squinting add to wrinkles.  People
    laugh but I wear sunglasses all the time, even on overcast days,
    but I don't  have squint lines and I am 35 years old.  Keep you
    weight consistent, don't gain and loose alot of weight as that can
    cause lines in the face.  Sleep on your back (that's hard for me
    as I love sleeping on my side).  I used to know a french woman who
    had the most beautiful skin I had ever seen, at the time she was
    about 60.  Her secrets included all of the above as well as monthly
    facials.  

    The term "healthy tan" is an oxymoron - and a very dangerous one. 

    Sunpoising can manifest itself in a few different ways.
    
    In my case, I had only slightly red skin, but white blisters
    everywhere...very much like a 2nd degree burn.  OUCH!
    The blisters form from the moisture in my skin being pulled
    to the surface to combat the heat of the sun's rays.  I
    suppose it could be described as "contained perspiration", in 
    a way.

        Personally, I find smile-lines to be very attractive. After
        several decades our customary facial expressions leave their
        marks on our faces, and I suspect on our souls as well. A 35 or
        40 year old face that is as devoid of character as that of a
        teenager (or an air-brushed model) bespeaks, to me at least, a
        much more dull and uninteresting life and person than the clear
        signs of a life of merriment.
        
        JimB.

    To answer the question in the basenote, I never heard of it.
    
    But, Jim's response (.17) reminded me of a wonderful 70's-ish woman
    I met while riding a bus from NYC to Seattle.  She had the most
    intricately wrinkled face I've ever seen, and each and every one
    of the wrinkles changed whenever she smiled and laughed -- her whole
    face was alive -- and she laughed a lot.  Mary K. Hickox, god bless
    her soul!
    
    CQ

    That is something I determined I wanted to have-smile lines. I don't
    want my face to fall into a sour expression when it's relaxed. I
    certainly don't mind wrinkles, I don't think I have any yet, but
    then I don't ever look. 
    
    I practice smiling just a little. I try to let that be a "default"
    expression for me. And it's amazing. If you have just a little smile,
    people ask you what the secret is and if you are smiling broadly,
    you get a lot of smiles in return. It's good for you and improves
    your outlook, too.
    
    Tamzen

    For reasons that are unknown to me, I get the Lahey Clinic quarterly
    newsletter, "To Your Health!"  The most recent one had an article
    on Retin-A:
    
    	Retin-A or "Tretinoin" [is] a prescription medication derived
    	from a vitamin A acid...
    
    	Retin-A is not a miracle cure for aging. ... Unlike cosmetic
    	products that simply enhance the appearance temporarily, Retin-A
    	actually alters the structure and function of the skin. ...
    	[It] minimizes the effects of photoaging.... The skin reaction
    	to the drug can mimic a sunburn, producing dry, red and
    	peeling skin.
    
    	Dr. Kligman and other researchers found that the acne cream
    	appears to generate new skin cells and increase circulation
    	by opening existing blood vessels and promoting finer, new
    	blood vessels.  The result is fewer fine wrinkles and, overall,
    	a rosier, younger-looking complexion.
    
    	Another promising use for Retin-A is in preventing actinic
    	keratoses -- rough, red, scaly precancerous patches caused by
    	the sun -- from developing into squamous cell cancers.
    
    							Ann B.