Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Um, people, we have to be rather careful about the nature of
    material that we put in the public files. There have been other
    files where too explicit material has caused real problems.
    
    Bonnie J
    moderator

    I'm reminded about an old joke which went "Let's get sex off the
    streets and back in the bedroom where it belongs." Just substitute
    conferences for streets.

    Damn, just wasted two nitroglycerin pills for nothing.
    
    Steve

    Dennis Quaid
    

    20% raises, and donate the turkeys to Rosie's place.
    
    --DE
    

    re.2 re.3
    dont read nancy fridays my secret garden and her other book forbidden
    flowers if you want to stave off "heart attacks"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    my fantasy????   just to have peace of mind and heart.
    
    
    kelly

    When Nancy Friday's collections of women's private fantasies, 
    "My Secret Garden" and "Forbidden Flowers" were published, I read 
    them and thought about how wonderfully imaginative they were.
    It made me feel awfully dull by comparison, and I wondered whether 
    it was just me, or did women, by nature, have a richer erotic capacity.
    
    Until recently, pornography was primarily for the male consumer. 
    Perhaps, I theorized, men have become erotically numbed by centuries
    of finding sexual stimulation in the product of someone else's
    imagination.  Women, on the other hand, were not as readily exposed
    to such spoon-fed sensuality, and thereby retained more of a natural
    imagination.  
    
    Nancy Friday subsequently published a collection of male fantasies,
    entitled "Men in Love".  So much for my theory.  I guess it's just
    me that's unimaginative.
                           

re: .8

	Lorna, wouldn't you rather be independently wealthy so that
	neither you nor your husband had to work?  I think sharing all
	that free time and wealth together would be more fun than
	having one of us have to work.

	...Karen

  Re .9, that's even a better fantasy!  Finding a man you'd want to
    be around all the time! :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
     This note just jogged a few old memory banks on the subject.
     I can remember reading the published results of some psychological
     study done which included fantasies. One of the most interesting
     points brought out was that men preferred drawings or photos as
     a stimulus for sexual fantasy, where as women preferred a written
     description of a man or a sexual act. When questioned about the
     difference, women were quoted, that reading it vs looking at it 
     allowed more latitude of imagination of themselves being 
     involved.  The article went on to say that thats why all these
     romance novels with descriptive sex seines were so popular with
     women. With that in mind, I think I'll get my lady friend a 
     sexy novel on the way home from work tonight  ;-)
    
                                    Bob B  
    

    I was going through some books I'd put away and found Nancy Friday's
    and a couple of other seemingly sexy books.  I glanced through them and
    realized that nothing in there seemed interesting or even remotely sexy
    to me.  I started thinking about it, and realized that nothing seems to
    affect me that way any more--books, pictures, movies, even people.
    
    I wonder if that's related to being very wrapped up with work and
    technical things...or having turned 35...or what?  I hadn't thought
    about it in so long that I hadn't realized I hadn't thought about
    it, if that makes any sense.              
    
    Do other women who write in this file go through lengthy stages
    where nothing of that sort even remotely affects them?
                                                          
    

    .12  thank you, thank you!  I thought I was the only woman
    in the world who felt that way!  I was beginning to believe
    there was something tragically wrong with me!  I also brought
    My Secret Garden home, with great expectations...since I don't
    seem to have much of an imagination, I was hoping the book 
    would supply me with "food for thought". Alas, I was not the
    least bit interested in any of the fantasies described.  I
    also do not enjoy x-rated movies-so cold and unemotional....
    Maybe it is related to age-I just turned 36.....maybe I just
    prefer the real thing?
    
     

    I have always noticed a cyclical pattern around my desires for sex
    which would often exhibit themselves in some great fantasizing.
    I would especially enjoy fantasizing during boring meetings, etc.
    
    Currently I have been less interested and I suspect it is for two
    reasons.  One I am getting older and the hormones don't work as
    regularly.  The other is the constant media attention to sexual
    behavior, the AIDS epidemic and other very negative press.  
    
    I have a theory that the media also promoted casual sex during the
    60's and we were barraged with the philosophy that we needed to
    enjoy the moment.
    
    This theory makes me a little uncomfortable....because it only
    addresses one portion of my life that may be managed by the media.
    I hate to think of all the other areas that they invade my privacy
    and thoughts.

    It can't be age; I'm right up there and I'm still having them.
    But I didn't find _My_Secret_Garden_ at all exciting either.  I
    guess I'll have to dig out that short story that Harlan said had
    something he called "the teak fantasy" in it....
    
    My current fantasy is:  On the weekend, I will wake up and feel
    like raking the leaves.  The weather will be less than bitterly
    cold, the wind will be less than brisk, and the leaves will still
    be a bit wet so they'll pack down well.
    
    							Ann B.

    I borrowed a copy of "My Secret Garden" from a friend a few years
    back.  Well once I had read it, and passed it along, it went through
    many other people and eventually fell apart.  There must be something
    to it.  As for both "garden" and "flowers" (abbrev titles here)
    I liked certain fantasies better than others.  Of course the same
    meal all the time gets dull...that's why the "erotica" section of
    Playgirl is a nice side dish on occasion.  And, now that they have
    "totally nude" pictures back, that's a nice apperatif.  I find that
    the forum in penthouse, and most erotic books written for men are
    often too "crude/unenticing/unsensual/slam bam thankyou ma'am" for
    my taste.  And I enjoy some erotic movies, but I find the triple
    X ones are so busy with grotesquely close close-ups that it gets
    either disgusting or just plain dull.  A vivid-R to a single-X does
    just fine, in most cases - give me romance anyday over a zoom-shot
    of you-know-what.

    My fantasy?  To be able to take a nice LONG vacation somewhere
    temperate and not have to worry about money (either while on vacation,
    or when I got home).  Independent wealth sounds like an endearing
    thought, but I wouldn't just sit home and redecorate all the time...I'm
    sure I'd keep a job to help satisfy my soul.  
    
    -Jody
        
     

    re.17
    i agree with you.
    i read maybe 1/4 of my secret garden and put it down.
    it is interesting that i loaned both of those books plus delta of
    venus to a man friend and they vanished for quite sometime.
    
    kelly

    I thought both of Nancy Friday's books gave a great deal of space to
    fantasies about things like getting it on with a dog.  I know we are
    supposed to be tolerant of the sexual fantasies and behaviors of other
    people, but reading something like that leaves me cold and slightly
    sick and wondering if that constitutes animal abuse. 
         
    Joyce, I know what you mean about wondering how much the media controls
    our thoughts.  I worry about it too.  When I am in the city, I feel
    bombarded with various kinds of media stimulation, and I feel as though
    I am under assault.  I recently moved back out to the country, and it
    makes a big difference to my sense of inner peace.  I cannot listen to
    commercial radio or TV or read most magazines because it makes my mind
    and body feel like I am a dumpster overflowing with media hype. (When
    commercials start playing unbidden in my head there is not much room
    left for anything else.)   'All Things Considered' is about the only
    way I can take in the news without succumbing to despair and
    depression. 
    
    I wonder if all the publicity about AIDS (which comes to even the
    most remote isolationist) has anything to do with what I described
    in note .12 -- if I don't feel anything, I won't want to do anything
    which might get me into trouble?  Got to think about that one some
    more.       
    
    Holly

    re: .19
    
    supposed to be tolerant of the sexual fantasies and behaviors of other
                                          ^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Holly, there is a big difference between fantasy and behavior. 
    
    In my opinion:
    
    Fantasy:
    
    Anyone is free to fantasize about anything they choose.  Well adjusted
    people should be able to fantasize about anything that turns them
    on without guilt.  That includes things like bestiality and pedophelia
    if that is what does it for you (although I agree with you, it is
    far from being *my* cup of tea).  If a person feels guilty about
    what they fantasize about, it is probably a good indication that
    they should seek counseling.
    
    Additionally, I feel that fantasy should be a private and personal
    thing.  You do not need to read about someone else's fantasies when
    you find them distasteful.
    
    Behaviors:
    
    We *are* supposed to be tolerant of the sexual behaviors between
    other *consenting adults*.  This does not imply in the least that
    we must tolerate people actually engaging in pedophelia or bestiality.
    Neither a child or an animal can give informed consent and deserve,
    nay, require, our protection.
    
    So, to answer your question:  fantasizing about having sex with
    a dog does not constitute animal abuse; having sex with a dog certainly
    does! , and I would be in favour of the local animal control officer
    being called in to bring charges against anyone who engaged in such
    *behavior*.
    
    Rita
    
    

    lorna,
    as Rosanna Barr said, "It could haaapen!" :-)

    Re .8, nah, I was just feeling depressed that day.
    
    Lorna
    

RE: .14

"maybe I just prefer the real thing?"

Maybe so, but with most real things I enjoy, I can also enjoy fantisizing about
them, and anticipating the real thing.  Why should sex be any different?

I think that a number of people are not interested in "sex", but only with
"making love" with someone whom they are in love with.  Such a person would not
be interested or excited by a fantasy/porn starring different people.

... Had a discussion about porn (combat zone) recently, didn't like it in
general, but couldn't think of a way to get rid of it.  Later, the thought
occurred to me that there is no effective *good* way of getting rid of it,
untill the patrons of it have something better to replace it with, IE something
better then sex to replace sex with, maybe love, but perhaps some people are
incapable of loving. 

Jim.

    RE:	.14
    
    	Deb, I agree with you and I'm twelve years younger!
    
    RE:	.24
    
    	I don't believe anyone is "incapable of loving", but I do
    	believe many have deep-seated fears associated with opening 
    	up to someone (I'm sure this is discussed elsewhere).  Some 
    	people prefer the safety of shallowness rather than taking 
    	the chance to explore the beauty of depth.  Their choice, 
    	their loss.
    
    						Carla
    
    

    You and I both know, Carla, that Librans are incurable romantics!
    ;-)
    
                    DK
    
    

	What about a sagitarian (sp)....

		Mike

    
    
    To own my own bookstore and not have to worry about making
    a profit.
    
    BTW - Aquarians are intense romantics but I don't believe in
    "that astrology stuff" no not at all.
    
    _peggy
    
    		(-)
    		 |
    
    			Sun in Aquaris, Moon in Aquaris,
    				rising.... OH NOOOO