Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I won't attempt to reconstruct my previous replies, which got wiped out
    . . . but I will summarize. 
    
    Yes, I read most of the book and thought it was pretty good.  I
    didn't finish it because it seemed to be describing rules that my
    husband and I already follow based on common sense and fair play. 
    
    Since this note came up, I've been thinking of going back and looking
    at it again to see if I can apply the principles to discussions
    with my teenage daughter, who is prone to go off in a sulk when
    I don't instantly understand her.  
    
    A friend whose family went into counselling to get out of the
    domestic-violence cycle said the counselling group spent a lot of time
    teaching them the principles of fighting fair.  Any time you have two
    or more different people living together, you're going to have
    differences of opinion, and if you don't know how to express
    disagreements in a reasonable manner, you're liable to wind up in an
    argument that leaves hard feelings.  This counsellor felt that in many
    cases, domestic violence erupted out of frustration at not being able
    to communicate, and that if you learned more techniques of effective
    communicatin, you wouldn't need to resort to violence to try to make a
    point. 

    --bonnie
    
    p.s. Hi, Tom. Welcome.
    

    
    My wife and I make it a point to express feelings. We both find
    it easier to deal with things like "I'm angry about X" instead
    of "you jerk, why do you always do that?"
    
    The other thing we do is avoid assumptions. This includes
    "interpreting" the other persons words. If need be we'll ask the
    most basic questions to avoid false assumptions. 
    
    It takes a lot of work, but it seems to save a lot of grief; at
    least with us. 
    
    You know, to stray just a bit from the topic, we've been married
    over 10 years. We had no problems communicating for the 1st 6 or
    7 years and then, during a very difficult time, we had to learn
    how to communicate all over again. That happen to anyone else.
    
    					Hanko

    
    i have to be real careful cus the love in my life reads this
    notes file religiously.....
    
    so i'll use 3'rd person.
    
    far too often, people will argue over "something"...anything...
    and ONE OF THEM will say....
    	"well, if you can argue with me, or be angry with me....
    	then you didn't mean it yesterday when you said you loved
    	me"
    
    	as though you can't possibly be angry at people you love.
    anyone with children knows this is untrue.
    
    	and.....
    	it's possible that one person can say to their lover...
    	"i have a problem with this thing you do/did"
    	and the retort will be "yeah? well, you did this! or that!"
    
    	i hate that.
    	i'm so happy it doesn't happen in this current relationship
    :-(
    :-)
    	i "believe" that when my s.o. says..."rik....i don't like
    the fact that you said this or did that"...i always? stick to
    that topic and try to adjust with her.
    	well, most of the time....
    	sometimes...
    	once in awhile...
    	
    	at least once...
    
    	

    A request:
    Before this file got wiped out, a few people entered notes outlining
    the "fighting fair" rules they follow in their relationships. Could
    you please take the time to re-enter them?  I hate to think that
    they'd be lost...
    
    An observation:
    Most of our fights seem to have a basis in the theme "You don't love 
    me enough." It's hard to remember it at the time of the disagreement, 
    but when we overlay our perceptions with that filter, it's often
    easier to pop out of argue-mode.
    
    
    Liz
    

            <<< RAINBO::$2$DUA11:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 340.4                        Fighting Fair                           4 of 4
CADSYS::SULLIVAN "Karen - 225-4096"                  21 lines  19-JUN-1987 10:45
                                 -< my rules >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't read the book, but we have the following rules:

	1.  Remember that even though you really can't stand each other
	at the moment, you really do love each other.

	2.  Try to stay on the subject, although other similar greivances are
	okay, since you might as well try and get most of them out now since
	you're fighting anyways.

	3.  Never walk away from an argument, or go to bed before it's
	resolved.  (Sometimes this is difficult if you get into an argument when
	you're late for a meeting at work.  Then you have to compromise and
	either call or finish it later.)

	4.  Don't ever hit below the belt - meaning personal unrelated items
	that you know would *really* hurt the other.

	5.  It's not a rule, but we never get physically violent.


Are these similar?  ..Karen

            <<< RAINBO::$2$DUA11:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 340.7                        Fighting Fair                           7 of 8
FAUXPA::ENO "Bright Eyes"                            24 lines  19-JUN-1987 15:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The rules that seem to work for us ...
    
    1.  If we are arguing about A, and you also have a grievance about
        B, don't confuse the issues; look at one at a time.
    
    2.  No arguing in public places; you may express displeasure or
    	disapproval or discomfort but the actual discussion must wait
        until you are in private.
    
    3.  No namecalling.
    
    4.  Don't walk away from each other without some kind of resolution;
        don't discuss your argument with third parties until it is
        resolved.
    
    5.  Remember that not all points of contention can be settled;
        sometime they will remain disputed forever.  Find a strategy
        to continue to live with each other without anger or resentment
        over these issues.
    
    6.  ALWAYS be wiling to be the first one to smile/hug after the
        argument and break the tension.
    
    7.  Winning isn't important; solving the problem is.

            <<< RAINBO::$2$DUA11:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
================================================================================
Note XXX.0                        fighting fair                       No replies
CELICA::KNELSON                                      16 lines  13-JUL-1987 15:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More about fighting fair:
    
    We don't have any rules per se, but we do try hard, when
    fighting, to watch what we say, e.g., "That drives me
    crazy when you do that."  In other words, we really try
    to limit the fight to the topic at hand.
    
    Physical violence is absolutely out of the question, as
    is throwing things (tubs of margarine, pans, cans of
    soup, etc.).  I also try to think, "Is this really worth
    a full-scale fight?"
    
    And too, I'm reminded of Phyllis Diller's old line:
    "Never go to bed mad.  Stay up and fight!"
    
    Sometimes it's worth it....

    >Physical violence is absolutely out of the question, as
    >is throwing things (tubs of margarine, pans, cans of
    >soup, etc.)
    
    true 'nuff.  But _once_in_a_while_, we've found that venting aggression
    and anger *in a nondestructive way* can be really useful.  We keep
    a couple of water pistols and some plant sprayers (ok, so we bought
    'em intending to use them as cat disciplinary aids, so it goes). 
    A good water fight in the back yard can sometimes really help if
    you're just too pent up and mad to be reasonable (By mutual consent
    only, of course!).  We found that we typically wound up lying on
    the ground laughing hysterically after the water supply ran out.
    And subsequent discussions about what was _really_ on our minds
    were much more useful once we got all that anger stuff outta the
    way.  This is NOT intended to be a frivilous note!  This is a very
    silly but often effective way of dealing with anger.  Sometimes
    it helps!
    
    Rita
    
    this 

    q: but what do the neighbors think?
    a: who cares!
    

    This sounds like a wonderful idea to me!
    
    --bonnie