Conference turris::womannotes-v1

When they do one on penis size, warn me. I'll want to watch that one.
(can I say that in a notes file?)
	Mez

How do I feel about it?  I've been more or less satisfied with my own 
size (uh, 34B, "average" I think) and been fairly comfortable (physically) 
though when I run, I wear a super-duper sports bra to minimize jiggle.  
My grandmother had very large breasts, had to have special support garments 
made and still had ridges in her shoulders an inch deep from a life-time 
of support -- no, thanks!  She hated her large breasts and also hated the 
attention she was paid because of her hourglass shape.  I like what I've 
got.  I don't think I've never felt inferior (you know, "less of a woman") 
because I've got oranges instead of cantaloupes.

CQ

"I don't think I've never felt inferior..."

That was supposed to be I don't think I've _ever_ felt inferior...

CQ

Well when I was twelve and wearing a larger size bra than my mom I did 
not like it one bit... the years came and went and I grew to realize that
I was me chesty or not..  so I resolved not to worry about it.. I don't
so others don't..  I have good posture and the right kind of build to 
counter balance being top heavy so I just don't worry about it any more.
It took some years to learn how to dress to suit my shape but now it is
just second nature.

I remember the 'boob' jokes in high school but that was a time of strange
feelings and worries in general... like the years they are behind me now
so I don't worry about their effect on my self image now.

My sister is on the flatter chested side and she likes herself too.. guess
that just shows that we like ourselves enough not to worry about such things.
We have had some of our best laughs trying on each other's bras and imagining
what we would look like if I had hers and she had mine..  

gailann

					-- Mae West

    Boy, you must have been *REALLY* sick...
    
    The only thing that bothers me about the size of my breasts is that
    the left one is bigger than the right one (though they have gotten
    more even over the years - it was pretty noticeable when I was in
    high school).  I don't pay too much attention to my looks, I guess!

    For those of you who have suffered with LARGE breasts as I
    USED to - send me mail and I'll tell you about my surgery.
    Best thing I ever did for myself - and insurance paid for it!
    
    By the way - age is no barrier - I was in my 40s when I finally
    did the second most important thing for myself (first being my
    divorce).

    I think that a 34B or C is perfect.  However, I am much larger than
    that.  When I was 12 I was probably a B or C.  When I was 15 and
    taking English Horseback Riding lessons I was in terrible pain until
    I changed my bra to an underwire.  Even now my bras rub big red
    spots occasionally (and different styles, different sizes don't
    help much).  I don't know that I would ever go through surgery,
    but one never knows.
    
    And although I never felt "inferior", I sure suffered a lot of
    embarassment from guys and girls alike while growing up.
 
                       Carol 

    When I was about 18 or 19 I went out to dinner on a first (and last)
    date with a guy who suddenly looked across the table at me and said,
    "I think you're the flatest chested woman I've ever gone out with!"
     At the time, I was so hurt all I could do was try to keep back
    the tears.  (That's how sensitive I was about not having huge "boobs".)
    
    But, if any man ever dared lean across a table and say that to me
    now, I'd lunge across the table and gouge his eyes out with my
    fork!
    
    Or, I'd at least say, let's see what the hell you have buddy!
    
    Lorna
    

    And what about those bras!!! There must be a better way. After all,
    codpieces have evolved into boxer shorts and what-cha-ma-call-its
    (you know, the strechy things). Men just don't wear tights anymore!
    	Mez

    Personaly breast size is one of the lest important things I look
    for in a women.  Although I do find small breasts to be more 
    estheticly pleasing to my eye.
    One male point of view.
    

I find that if a woman is comfortable with her breasts, I am 
likely to be also.

As a generality, the above statement can apply in sooo many ways.


	~Mike

In general, physical appearance is secondary to the non-physical aspects of
a person, but it's hard to remember that. Everywhere one looks, "pretty
people" are used to push products, and the constant bombardment tends to
warp one's perspective. Or is it just me?

I guess the first sentence above isn't always true, or that some people
don't even pretend to agree with it. Look in the Personals column in the
Boston Phoenix (or your favorite local paper) -- most of the ads, especially
those written by men, are looking for someone who's just this side of
perfect.

					-- hs

"The average woman would rather be beautiful than smart, because the
average man can see better than he can think"

    Me, I like being smart, because then I get friends with women
    and men, and some of them may later think I am beautiful, but
    all of those who are my friends like me for who I really am.

    
    
    RE:  .17.
    
    Bonnie, you ARE beautiful as well as smart.  To all of us who are
    lucky enough to know you well, you are especially beautiful; we
    consider ourselves fortunate to know you and benefit from your \beauty
    and wisdom.
    
    Anonymous

    
         Bonnie, I've never even seen you, and I think you're a babe!
    
                                   Bubba
    

    I'm satisfied with my breast size (34B) - never really gave it much
    thought.  More than a handful (or mouthful) is a waste, anyway.

    friends are special people, both the old and the new...
    
    now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

    I'm surprised that nobody has brought this up yet.
    
    Appearance to men - I prefer small breasts, I have a friend who
    prefers large breasts.  We men all have different tastes.
    
    I realize that not all women put appearance above all else, this
    is for those women who worry about the visual attractions.  I have
    had women comment that they feel they are not attractive because
    their breasts are too small.  Being a flirt, I tell them that they
    look just fine.
    
    Spence

    My breasts are part of my body. I happen to luck out, in that my
    partner enjoys all of my body. What really makes me uncomfortable
    is the emphasis on women's breasts, both by clothing designers and
    [that old devil] society. Darn it, I want to go braless, and wear
    t-shirts with breast pockets, and use the darn pockets *without
    snide comments or looks*.
    
    Am I unreasonable? 
    	Mez

    Mez, you are not unreasonable.  I feel *exactly* the same way. And when
    jogging/running along the side of the road, or riding my bike, the
    "catcalls" and whistles from men passing by in their car/truck, has
    caused me to do my exercising indoors, unfortunately for me.  I just
    feel like I am on display and that makes me very self-concsious. (sigh) 
    
    I, too am very comfortable with my body and breast size!  But it would
    be nice to be able to go outdoors, braless, (not topless!) and not get
    the comments and stares. 
    
    Someday.....

    RE .20, the reason you never gave it much thought is that you *are*
    a 34B.  It's women who have extra big or extra small breasts who
    have had to deal with the comments.  I would prefer to be a 34B
    myself, instead of smaller (like I am) or bigger (and have to put
    up with other types of comments or attention).  This choice is only
    because of the comments, though.  I *can* jog in a t-shirt and no
    bra and be perfectly comfortable.  In fact, except for work and
    totally see-thru blouses, I never wear a bra and nobody notices
    the difference.  That is comfortable.
    
    Lorna
    

    .23
    
    
    
    Not being "overly endowed" and growing up in Califoria was
    all that influenced me!!  I wore a bra for about 6 months,
    when I was 13, then threw it away FOREVER!  Who needs it?
    
    Now, for the sake of "modesty", I wear a camisole instead.
    
    Well, now my secret is out...
    
     

    
    
    What's a bra?
    
    I don't wear one or need one.
    
    When my daughter was 13 she wanted to wear a bra, I asked her
    why, and she told me that her best friend had been wearing one
    for over a year.  I told her that she would have to have her
    father buy it because I did not think that she needed to wear
    one.
    
    Two jobs past I did wear t-shirts and did use the breast pocket
    to carry pens - the people I worked with got used to it after
    a while.  The job I have now requires a more formal approach to
    attire so no t-shirts or jeans - but on weekends I get back to
    basics.
    
    		_peggy
    		  (-)
    		   |
    
    

   To be honest I don't know what is worse, being a 38 for several
   years and putting up with the usual comments about the aching back...
   Or loosing four inches and accepting it until you decide to measure
   yourself again (after reading these notes) only to discover that
   two more wonderful inches have disappeared.  You never loose it from
   the places you won't too.  Now I am beginning to miss it. 
    
   JAW
    

    Now might be the time to bring up the braless look. I have heard
    men make comments about women who do not wear bras as if that somehow
    signified they were loose and easy. I was once told (while working
    in a hospital where I wore a lab coat over my clothes) that it was
    improper for me to not wear a bra. I suggested to the Dr. that said
    this that he was improper not wearing a jock strap. To this day
    I can hardly believe I had the nerve to say that, but the subject
    was never mentioned again. (and I didn't even get fired). Liesl

    Re: < Note 223.30 by IMAGIN::KOLBE "Playing with Fire" >
    
    Liesl -
    	My gut reation was to respond "there are some women who *should*
    wear bras and others who need not" with the "justification" being
    that there becomes a point at which it becomes distracting.  Then
    I decided  that it would mainly be my problem if I became distracted.
    Then comes the question of if/why it would be distracting...
    
    	Last weekend, I had occaision to be in a Jacuzzi with a number of
    people I didn't know very well, both male and female.  It wasn't
    distracting to sit in the Jacuzzi with several strange naked women.
    Why should one or more braless women nearby bother me?  Personally,
    I tend to like the braless look, but I've had several women friends
    tell me it's uncomfortable.
    
    	I guess I'm just a people watcher - and I'll watch the women
    braless or not.
    
    Re: .0
    
    	I've known women with breast sizes across the spectrum.  Most
    wished they were some other size (larger or smaller) but I haven't
    been unhappy with anyone because of their chest size.  Certainly
    the larger ones tend to "stand out", but I'm not going to reject
    anyone based on (bra or braless) size.
    
    					--Doug

For some,  not  wearing a bra means you stretch yourself because the muscles
can't  support  the  weight.  Personally,  I'll deal with what I have, but I
wouldn't  go  without  (except  at the normal times not to), because I don't
want the stretch effect.

When I  was  young  and  small  enough that I had started wearing a bra, but
could  get  away without it support-wise, I had a very good male friend draw
attention  to the fact that I wasn't wearing one. I was terribly embarrassed
and  went  in  and put one on. Things like that sometimes haunt me because I
feel  like  I  shouldn't  have  let it bother me, I made a mistake! But that
seems  silly  -  at  this  point,  the  best thing is just to learn from it.
(Sometimes that can be one of those "easier said than done" things.)

    Mentions of starting to wear a bra,  recalls  the  following,  (probably a 
    propos of nothing, but I'll relate it anyway)
    
    In the early days of my career I was for a while  a  school  teacher  in a 
    co-ed  high school (High school in Britain is - in this case - age 12-18). 
    School rules dictated what boys and girls should wear, in all details.
    
    Girls  under 16 were only allowed to wear a bra "on medical grounds" or if 
    pregnant  or nursing (we had a few under-16s in the "creche class").  
    
    I remember one quite (very) embarassed young woman  of  15  bringing  me a 
    doctor's  note that her mother had gotten for her so she could wear a bra. 
    The doctor explained over two pages of notes that muscular distress  would 
    result if she didn't wear one.
    
    On  the other hand when working as an Operations Manager in the DP field a 
    few years later I had to send one of the operators home because she wasn't 
    wearing a bra (under a semi-see through blouse). Not my decision - the CEO 
    of the company saw her and nearly went epilleptic.
    
    /. Ian .\

    Seems to me that this is another one of those "choice" issues. 
    We all know what we *like* to see women wearing or how they/we should
    look, but when you get right down to it, we all know deep down that
    each woman needs to do what *she* feels comfortable with - bra or
    no bra.  That's one of the real beauties of the women's movement,
    isn't it?
    
    	-Ellen

    I guess when you come right down to it, I hate wearing a bra.  But,
    *I have to* and that is not just a *desire*, it is a fact.  If I
    don't, I am 1) uncomfortable (having them droop) and 2) the stretch
    effect.  I always felt that if I nursed while pregnant, I'd be in
    much pain.  Once a month pain lends me to believe this will be true.
     So, breast feeding I won't.
    
    What bothers me about others (and it shouldn't because it's *THEIR*
    life) is in aerobics class.  Some women are so foolish to believe
    that if they look good in the leotard (and some are see through),
    then it doesn't matter that they bounce a little in front of other
    women.  I guess they don't realize that too much of a good thing
    CAN hurt you (later on).  But, these girls are young and don't care
    to think about the future of their breasts (which is sad).  Health
    conscious individuals who have an "abundance" will know that a good
    support bra during aerobics may not "look good" under their leotard,
    but later on they won't regret it's help at all
    
    If only I had learned this earlier......
    :-)

    re.35
    
    Hopefully you would be nursing after pregnancy, not during.
    Second, nursing is one of the most pleasurable experiences I have
    ever had.  I nursed my first because no one else was doing it and
    I wanted to be different.  When I had my second I did it because
    of the special bond that is made between the mother and the nursing
    infant. There is discomfort for the first 24 hours but after that
    ther is nothing to it.  We are mammals and thats what the breasts
    are for, not for some adult male to oogle.  

    re .36  I "want" to breast feed but I feel that nursing for a lengthy
    period of time will do me more harm then good.   My sisters both
    nursed (for different amounts of time) and they had no problems.
    But they live with 32 A and I live with 36 B.  So, there is a
    difference and if I'm in pain monthly when not nursing, how can
    my chest and back take it "while" nursing.  I'd just assume letting
    'em "dry up" and go back to normal sooner.
       
    That's just my opinion and something I will have to live with.

    re .37
    Once your milk comes in - which can be uncomfortable no matter
    how big or small you are - there really isn't any increase in size
    unless you miss a feeding.
    
    And some large busted women (such as my sister) find that nursing
    actually reduces the size of the breasts. Like Pat I would encourage
    any mother to nurse - it is a wonderful experience.
    
    Bonnie

    My sister-in-law is a 42 and she nurses her daughter regularly with
    no problems, (well, no complaints anyway).
    
    Spence

    
    
    I nursed both of my children, one for only 6 weeks and the other
    for over six months.  The discomfort I had during pregnancy was
    worse than when I was nursing, I actually missed nursing when
    my son got sick at 6 weeks.  While I was nursing my breasts were
    smaller then when I was pregnant.
    
    _peggy  (-)
    	     |
    

    Of course, women's real-life experiences will be more compelling,
    but you might find the following bits from _The_Complete_Book_of_
    Breastfeeding_ somewhat reassuring.
        
        page 20:  Q.  Doesn't nursing ruin a woman's figure?  
        A.  ... Any changes in the breasts themselves are due to
        pregnancy, heredity, and maturity--not lactation.  Most women
        who have borne children do notice that their breasts become
        somewhat less firm and erect after childbirth.  These changes
        take place as a result of pregnancy. ... whether you nurse
        this child or not will have no effect on your permanent breast
        conformations.
        
        page 42:  The manufacture of milk and the vascular expansion
        are responsible for the engorgement and temporary discomfort
        experienced by some--but not all--women.  It is almost always
        relieved by the baby's early and frequent nursing.
        
        page 151:  Engorgement (swollen breasts)  This painful swelling
        of the breasts experienced by some women three to five days
        after childbirth is caused by a combination of the swelling
        of the tissues, the increased circulation of blood in the
        breasts, and the pressure of the newly produced milk.  The
        breasts feel hard, tender, and tight.  Engorgement can usually
        be prevented by feeding the baby on demand from birth and
        withholding formula and sugar water from him.  If the baby
        nurses vigorously and frequently from the start, the chance
        of engorgement is greatly reduced.

    
    
    re. 41
    
    { him on demand}     
    
    	Same is true concerning girl babies :^)
    
    		_peggy  (-)
    			 |
    

                  
    I used to work in a bookstore years back, and vividly recall the only
    book I can remember the owner censoring: "Breasts -- Women Speak About
    Their Breasts and Their Lives." The authors are Daphna Ayalah and Issac
    J. Weinstock (Summit Books: New York, 1979). He received three copies &
    refused to put them on the shelves ("too offensive" he said), so I
    brought a copy home for Irene and myself to read. 
                   
    The book is a collection of over 40 interviews with women talking about
    how their breasts have affected their lives. The women come from a wide
    range of backgrounds, ethnic cultures, ages, etc. (all are American I
    presume), & each story is unique. Most of the interviews are
    accompanied by a photograph of the woman's breasts. The photos are
    somewhat clinical, but are juxtaposed by a number of "media" images
    of breasts, including pinup shots, breast enlargement ads, celebrity
    photos, etc.  
                  
    Overall a very good book that certainly changed a few of my attitudes
    and prejudices about breasts. I suppose in male parlance I am a
    "breast man," insofar as I find breasts the most distinctive and
    apparent difference between men and women, and by my personal standards
    the most beautiful difference. The book "Breasts" does not present
    a lot of flattering photographs, and some of the stories describe
    how attitides like mine affected women who were either "too small"
    or "too large." To that end the book made me realize how all of
    us perform a certain internal calculation as we look at breasts
    & make a snap judgement ("too small," or "too large," or "just a
    bit more," and so on). The book also made me recognize the fact
    that breast-beauty, like anything else, is fleeting at best, & so
    is a rather temporal criteria for judging someone.
                  
    Am I still a "breast-man"? Yes, but I hope a lot less critical and more
    appreciative. I still think a woman's breasts are one of nature's most
    beautiful and gentle forms. I particularly loved watching Irene nurse
    our children...the most peaceful sight on earth. I think I grew up a
    bit and outgrew my adolescent attitudes in the process -- at least
    I hope I did. 

    The April issue of New Woman has an article entitled, "Why I Chose
    Breast Reduction Surgery."  The author went through far more dicomfort
    than I did - the procedure was different - but all in all, is an
    interesting article.  For those interested - I'll be glad to make
    copies and send it out - just send me mail.
    
    Trudy

    Hi Y'all!
    
    I'm average sized (34B), but since the rest of me is so small (5.0
    tall, 91.5 lbs), the do look "larger" (fuller?).  I use to feel
    self-consious when wearing tank tops, and stuff like that, but now
    that I'm a little bit older and wiser, I really don't care what
    others might think! As long as my clothes are clean, and ya can't
    see 'em sticking out of my shirt, I feel fine.  Besides - here in
    Georgia it gets HOT! (It's been in the low 90's already.)
    
    I wish I didn't have to wear a bra - especially in the summer. 
    It can get very uncomfortable.  But... due to the fact that my GYN
    says it might help slow down the Fibrocystic (sp?) Disease that
    I already have (I'm 24), I always wear one (okay, almost always).
    
    I know that large breasts can be very uncomfortable - my mom's were
    BIG.  She has a mastectomy a long time ago, and then later had the
    remaining breast reduced.  She was a lot more comfortable after
    that.  She says that if the remaining one has to go - then good!
    She'd like to be flat chested!  No more worries about bras or anything!
    
    I guess I really don't care how big or small they are - as long
    as they stay healthy.
    
    Bye Y'all!
    
    Good Night!
         
    Corinne (-:
         

    If you hate bras and are a 34B, a pile of really tight tanks will
    probably do as well.  You can wear them under your clothes, and
    they are really quite supportive when they are freshly clean and
    dry.  No tight straps, and they tend to, er, de-emphasize the size/
    shape of your breasts.
    
    What a drag to have breast problems at 24!!!
    
    Lee

    re .-1
    
    That sounds like a good idea.  I'm not sure if the American definition
    of "tank top" differs from the English one.  If you mean a tee shirt
    with a low neckline and two shoulder-straps forming one at the back
    and dropping down to a low back,  then this is very common in Germany
    for large breasted women who don't want to wear a bra.  It also
    makes the breasts look more natural and I feel sure it's more healthy
    then a bra somehow.
    
    Simon.