Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    re: .2
    Suzanne, you struck a cord. I remember too many relationships where
    I suddenly realized the other person was on his own agenda, making
    assumptions about the future (not necessarily the distant future)
    without checking in with me. It was pretty wierd. I felt I was watching
    this guy have a relationship with himself, or with some fantasy.
    Brought things to a halt pronto.
    	Mez

    At the risk of sounding like a pain, I found the questions themselves
    as expressed in 118.0 distressing.  All women are not the same just
    as all men are not the same.  What will work for one person or
    relationship won't work with others.  I got the feeling that the
    writer views women as a compilcated "puzzel" and all he really has
    to do is figure it out and will then be set for life, no matter
    what woman is involved.
    
    No only are women different, but I myself would give a different
    answer at different times of my life.  Women are PEOPLE and appreciate
    honesty.  If you have this question with a particular women in mind,
    why don't you just ask her?  We aren't machines to be figured out
    and then manipulated.
    
    Ok, everybody, fire away - I can take it!
    
    Sally
    

    Am I being too simple minded here if I suggest that you
    reveal your concerns to the other party in the relationship
    and then the 2 of you can talk about it?  I'll bet anything
    that the object of your affections is going through the
    same dilemma. I'm sure that she'll be pleased (Wow! He's
    a thinking, feeling human being!) and relieved (I'm not the
    only one who wonders what will happen!) if you bring it up.
    
    The sooner you start talking about things that are on your mind,
    the better a relationship you will be building. And if she doesn't
    want to talk about it, maybe that tells you something too.
    
    Louise

    re 118.4
    
    Fire away? At what you expressed my sentiments exactly and very
    eloquently.
    

    re: 118.4
    
    No flames from here either - you said it perfectly!
    
    Questions about your relationship should be discussed within your
    relationship.  Too many people see the opposite sex as the "other
    side" and tend to work "at" them rather than "with" them.
    
    If your feelings are deepening, tell her AND show her.  What you
    do from there depends on how she feels about this piece of information,
    doesn't it?  If you *listen* to what the other person is saying, you 
    will never have to worry about being "too" anything.  If she cares
    about you, (which I assume you don't really know, hence your dilemma),
    she will want your relationship to be successful too!
                                                         
    You want this person to be one of your "closest" friends, don't
    you?  Then open up.
    
    Sandy

    RE .4
    
     To start off no I don't think your a pain. I do realize that all
     people are different and can vary even more depending on where
     they are and under what circumstance. Another thing Ive learned
     is that there is no magic single formula or method that will
     set me for life in any relation. There is no such thing as a 
     written guarantee in either a relationship or life.
     
     Do I view women as a complicated puzzle , yes, I do to a degree.
     I believe its referred to as "the female mystique". Is this bad ??
     no, not under normal circumstances. In fact it many times proves
     to be one of the things that attracts me to the person.
    
     What Ive run into a lot (both in the people that Ive dated and
     others that Ive talked to) is a feeling that a man should be able
     to (for lack of a better term) second guess the level of feelings,
     mood and headset of a woman. That a man should "set the pace".
    
     Now its one thing to be aware of things and feelings with someone
     you have been with for a wile and have gotten to know. Its another
     thing entirely to expect that from someone you are just getting
     to know. Maybe its a carry over from the persons previous relationship
     where the other person did (or didn't) know how to be dialed into
     her emotions and headset.
    
     Now Ill agree with some of the other replys that communication
     is the key to a good relationship. In a good relationship, that
     communication is established as you spend time together and learn
     about each other. Notice that I say communication not talk, it
     takes knowing a person to be able to communicate vs talk.
    
     Maybe a better title for this might have been "expectations".
     We all seem to be guilty of it in one way or another. I at this
     time don't have a SO in my life (had one for 4 years, that went
     sour last Dec and Iam a bit rusty at the dating game).
     I have been meeting / dating different women over the last
     few months. Now maybe Iam just  meeting the wrong people,
     IE ones that are rebounding ect.
    
     I personally generally try to "pace" a relationship with a new
     person at a level that she sets or we set together. My method
     of letting her know that Iam interested is to call to talk, 
     just say hello, hows your day, and make plans to spend time
     with her doing things together to learn more about each other.
     Now in doing this Ive been accused of "pushing" the relationship
     and when I back off now its Iam not showing enough interest.
     Now to top it off, I ask "well whats the best way for you and I
     to get together" (the lets talk about this ) To which I
     get "don't you know ??" Translation = EXPECTATION 
    
     The worst and probably most common mistake is to assume the
     other person is either where your at or want them to be.
     The only way to find this out is to ask what is it that she
     is looking for or would like to see in a relationship.
     Yet this was taken as pushing it by the person. I wasn't trying
     to push anything, yet just find out were she was at.
    
     The main thought of this was not to find the "right" answer
     or approach, yet to find out what the general consensus of
     thought out there is. I realize that not all women are like 
     the two people Ive been out with as of late and I just wanted to
     do something of a sanity check to see if its something Iam doing
     or just the people Ive been meeting.
     
    Does this make me a delirious demented crazy, because I seek the
    opinion of others ??  Ya it probably does  ;-) 

    
    Re .9
    
    I agree wholheartedly.  As one who has sought these reassurances
    to no avail, I can appreciate the fact your approach is indeed best.
    
    (Am I allowed to enter a note here<!>?)
    
    									bob
    
    

    I'd say it's the women you've been meeting.  I wouldn't be as patient
    as you with the verbal cat and mouse game.  Especially in a "new"
    relationship.  You deserve as much consideration as you seem willing
    to give.  You don't want to be someone's puppet anyway, do you?

{RE .8} - I know the answer to the mysterious problem of the "female mystique."
 The great secret about women is . . .

                                 . . . they're people too, just like you!

I've found that the first step in any successful relationship is to dispense
 with the mumbo jumbo and deal with the other as a person just like myself.
  This means no putting on a false front "that women will like," but just
   being myself.
    <_Jym_>