Conference yukon::christian_v7

    A few scriptures that might have been on John Wesley's mind at the
    time:
    
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: 
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 
 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall 
    say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 
 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for 
    so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 

Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall 
    separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your 
    name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. 
 23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is 
    great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the 
    prophets. 

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater 
    than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; 
    if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 
    
1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God 
    endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 
 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall 
    take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it 
    patiently, this is acceptable with God. 
 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, 
    leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 
 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 
 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he 
    threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 
    
1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and 
    be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 
 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an 
    answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you 
    with meekness and fear: 
 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of 
    evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation 
    in Christ. 
 17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well 
    doing, than for evil doing. 
 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, 
    that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but 
    quickened by the Spirit: 
    
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is 
    to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 
 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, 
    when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 
 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit 
    of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, 
    but on your part he is glorified. 
 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an 
    evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 
 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him 
    glorify God on this behalf. 
 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if 
    it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the 
    gospel of God? 
 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the 
    sinner appear? 
 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the 
    keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 

	While the following is true:

	    "If I walk closely with God, I will be persecuted," 
	
	 
	The inverse:

	    "If I am being persecuted, I must be right."

	Is most definitely not.

	

	I have seen a dangerous "bunker" mentality in many organizations
	and individuals, who are off the track of the Gospel with their
	own variations of doctrine or in their personal lives, and to try to 	
	advise or confront them is to provoke them into a self-serving delusion 
	of their own righteousness, that it is PROOF that the world is out to
	get them.

	I'm not saying .0 or .1 are there at all ---- but just a gentle		
	caution to all readers when they face it themselves....


	We must look to the Holy Spirit for our guidance and direction, and
	not look to  the world in any way for any affirmation.
	
	Bob
`	


	

    Ageed, Bob.  One brother I know puts it this way.  "Don't go looking
    for persecution.  If you walk faithfully with the Lord, it will find
    you."
    
    "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer
    persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12 
      
    Mark L.

    Bob,
    
    Yes indeedy!  And you are right that is not what .0 was intended to
    mean.  
    
    However, if we are not suffering persecution at all, then as John
    Wesley expressed his concern about his relationship with God, we need
    to examine ours.  :-)
    
    Thanks for the cognizance check. :-)
    
    
    I Peter 3:17
        For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well
        doing, than for evil doing.
    
    Nancy

Yesterday was the holiday for you all in the U.S., and it was quiet 'in
here'.  I was perusing this note, and started to enter a reply.  It got
delayed, because work intervened ( ;-), and when I came back to it I
changed my mind, because the struggles featured too big.  I'm going to try
to pull it together again... 

�    Let me ask you sumpin, are you excited about what God is doing in your
�    lives... even if it's in trial.  

My answer's 'yes' and 'no'.  'Yes', because I *am* excited; because I know
He is active.  He's changing me.  He has given promises for the future
which point to greater joy in closeness to Him than is on this world's
agenda.  And because I know that *that* is my heart's desire above
everything.  It must be for any of us who see clearly, because that's what
we were created - designed - for, and to fulfil our design function
perfectly is the ultimate fulfillment - bliss... 

'No', because I am human and get weary.  Very weary.  Sometimes it seems as
though the fulfillments are so far in the future that I'll never get there.
I'm aware that the changes which *still* have to be done in me are so
immense that I can never bear them.  I nearly put 'never come through them
the same person', but after all, that's the main point of them... ;-} 
Again, if the persecution seems sparse, so does the 'leading folks to the 
LORD'.  If only they truly understood what they were missing...  And even 
as I stumble to express it, I know that I'm the block.  There's too much of 
'me', and not enough of 'Him'.  Like John the Baptist said - "He must 
increase, and I must decrease....".  So I'm brought full circle, to admit 
that what I need is exactly what I'm getting.  And it's only His mercy 
that doesn't hammer it on harder, rather than lighten the training.  Just 
as it's only His mercy that applies it at all, to make me 'real', in spite 
of my self...

And yet I know that even if I've misunderstood; even if the promises are 
only to be seen in eternity, and I get no closer to Him in this life, it's 
all totally worth it.  Maybe this *is* a 'day of small things', though 
personally I think we're hovering on the verge of the most exciting time in 
the history of the world - the time which heralds the return of the 
Creator...  Either way, my responsibility is to listen and obey.  And the 
more I do that, the closer I get to Him, and the closer I get to fulfilling 
my objective - His objective in me....  Stick to it, guys'n'gals...  He's 
coming back for us.  And *that* you can't begin to measure in $ ;-)

�    SHOUT it if you love my Jesus, Stand up and SHOUT if you love my Lord. 
�    I want to know, Oh, I want to know if you love my Lord! :-)

Is my love wearing thin?  No, I think He's just showing that there's
*nothing* else to hang onto.  I really haven't got anything else.  And if I
try to hang onto anything else, it's going to give way when the pace hots
up.  We have to get used to there not being anything else around to hang
onto, and using a bit more faith instead.  Let's face it, you can swim
*better* without a rubber tire, but you can't go to sleep in the water so
easily.  Especially when there's sharks about to burst it...
					[ I'm not *really* that old ;-]

  "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to 
   be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us..." 
							Romans 8:18

								Andrew

    Andrew,
    
    That is about one of the most honest writings I've seen in here.  Yes
    and No... I'd say that's how we all get once in a while, eh?
    
    You said something that really stuck in my head, that when it's all
    said and done it comes back full circle.  And we are different for
    having gone through it... which *is* the purpose.
    
    May we never go through trial without change, May we always be moldable
    unto death or His coming! :-)  
    
    Thanks Andrew!
    
    Nancy