Conference wahoo::fishing

    
    	ALL'S FAIR IN LOVE, WAR, AND FISHING!!!!!!!  :-)

    	Now, with that said, on to the issue at hand.  I DON'T care if the
    guy has a $50,000.00 bass boat, 50 rods, 5000 lures, a $1000.00 fish
    finder, and all the other fancy gadgets on the market set out there to
    catch fishermen.  If he DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO USE THEM, THEY AREN'T AN
    ADVANTAGE!!!!  It is the KNOWLEDGE of the person using the tools that
    makes them work.  You have a devil of a time driving a 20 penny spike
    with a screwdriver.  Same with a fish finder.  If you don't know what
    your doing with it, you might as well use it for an anchor.  Plus, a
    fish finder seldom finds the actual fish in the summer.  Usually, I
    just use it to find structure to fish.  So, if you feel that being able
    to see the bottom structure of the lake is an unfair advantage, then
    YES, a fish finder is unfair.  If you don't know how to use the finder
    properly, leave it off.  So, the fish finder is probably no more of an
    advantage than anything else.  If you want to take the argument a step
    farther, a reel is an unfair advantage, too.  Why not just cane pole
    the fish????  I personally say that it's fair IF it's legal AND if
    agreed upon by the participants.  (NOW, suggest to the brother with the
    fish finder that each person gets to use it one day while at the camp
    and see what the reaction is.  This is the best solution.)  Otherwise,
    get a FISH ID ($128.00 from BPS, 2 lantern batteries, and you're on an
    even par.  GO FISHING and QUIT FIGHTING!!!!!
    	Second thing that I have found.  The MORE toys you have to use, the
    less fishing you do.  So, is it an advantage to spend more time FINDING
    the fish or more time fishing for the fish??????

    After all, the main thing in sportfishing is to cheat the fish
    to take your bait as a good meal.
    
    In most cases you serve them something utterly uneatable and
    in case of natural bait it still contains hook/hooks and line.
    
    As long as the fish has the chance to strike or not to strike
    it's fair game. If you gather the experience to find that fish
    by reading seacharts, judging weather, keeping diary etc. or
    even using electronics doesn't matter. 
    
    And of course when the fish has been found and tempted to strike
    it still has chances to fight itself free!
    
    Eki 

    I'll start with scents, for the most part I feel that the scent
    product is there to cover up the other scents (from you or being
    in a tackle box/boat) and actually may, at times induce the fish
    to pick up the bait. I will say that at times when the fish were
    hesitant in striking a rubber worm the use of a scent attractant
    did increase the number of fish caught or number of pick-ups by
    the fish. Most all fish scents are made up of cod liver oil and
    then have other scent offsets which vary the actual smell/taste.
    
    As far as a fish finder is concerned, I agree with .1, if you don't
    know how to use it (and it takes time, not just a day or a week)
    it's useless. I mostly use mine to find structure, dropoffs and
    occasionally fish. Just remember, you can be lead to the fish but
    you can't always make him bite. This is what I don't like about
    the fish I.D., it drives me nuts when you see clusters of fish around
    a piece of structure and they won't bite.
    
    
    DON'T FIGHT, FISH (and have a beer).
    
    John. 

    I'd say most serious bass fishermen use sonar, and alot use scents.
    Many also use PH, color and temp guages.  I'd say that most think
    using live-bait is 'stacking the deck'.  Accept thru the ice I don't
    use live-bait around here - although while down south I do on
    occasion - in search of the elusive HAWG.  
    
    When it comes to bass fishing, as folks have said, around here LCRs are 
    used more often to find structure and depth, rather than bass.  Obviously 
    if you have sonar and know how to use it and you know the habits of the 
    bass, the sonar can help locate likely locations.
    
    donmac

    Let's face it no matter what we have for equipment and knowledge to use
    it, Can we honestly say we feel like we win more fishing trips then we
    lose. And even the days we do win we allow our opponents to go free 
    (HOPEFULLY WE ALL PLAY BY THESE RULES" FOR BASS ANYWAY") to be enjoyed
    found and deceived again. If you really enjoy fishing, you should never
    judge a trip by the amount of fish in the boat. But by the enjoyment
    of the challenge of the pursuit of our favorite fish. The friendships 
    we develop and the beauty of nature from the great sunrises and
    sunsets, to the feelings we have being alone on a lake, with the pond
    fog around us as we listen to the distant call of the Loon.    
    

    Don, I just threw up!
    
    John.

    RE: .5
    
    Don (?)
    
    Yea thats the ticket. If I got a nickle for every time I went out
    fishing or duck hunting and didn't get anything I'd be rich. I'll
    settle for the "Infinity car commercial" if the fish aren't bitting
    or the ducks are still asleep. Speaking of the Infinity commercials
    do any of you other folks kind of get an open mouth stare when the
    one with the salmon/trout(?) comes on? (Yup me too)
    
    RE: .0
    As far as the gadgets question goes. If you think it helps...use
    it. I've used scents (does that BPS Hawg stuff smell like something
    died in it, or what?), finders, Colorselecters, Ph meters, temp.
    gauges etc. etc. and if the fish aren't going to bite, they just
    aren't going to bite.
    
    Now concussion fishing....thats UNFAIR {^8
    
    2 more cents
    Tom, 

re:                      <<< Note 1306.6 by SALEM::EASTER >>>
>                      -< Do I hear soft music playing??? >-
>
>    Don, I just threw up!
>    
>    John.
	

	John, I just *cracked* up!   :-):-):-)
	
	(Don, you got that right, though catching fish helps a bit too! ;-)

	/Ken

    Wot de Hells a loon??? Is it kinda lak a bank loon??? Or de loon
    arranger???
    
    Coonass

    I've been reading your notes with great amusement here in the UK, but
    what's a Hawg ?
    
    Tony.
    

    Tony
    
    A hawg is when your retrieving your lure and your tired and ready to
    call it a day and yet you want to take a couple more casts, suddenly
    when your day dreaming your rod twitches, You haul back with all
    your strentgh and set that hook.  Now the rod then really bends way back
    and the drag starts feeding out line faster than you can imagine.  Then
    the Hawg all 5lbs or better of that bass leaps out of the water a
    shakin his head and dancing on his tail. Your pulse pounds in your
    ears, your arms bulge with effort, your mind is resolved to only one
    thing, beat that son of a bitch.   Thats a Hawg.
                 
    the Bassassin

    The bassassin
    
    Now that feeling I understand !! Thanks for the info.
    
    Tony.

    The intersting thing is many years ago I was a real fly fishing purist. 
    I would spend hours studying the hatches, the things the Brookies were
    eating, the terrain etc.  I mean half the fun was in selecting the
    right fly and then the rest was in presentation.  I think that fly
    fishing is the type of fishing purists belong to.  I don't know any fly
    fisherman that uses anything other than his rod and flys and maybe some
    dope compound to keep the fly dry.
    
    Today I don't use anything other than my lures and rods in catching
    bass.  I mean I do get contour maps of the lakes and pond when I can,
    but other than that I haven't yet popped for the electronics or other
    things.  We use live bait when all else fails so in some ways our
    fairness dissappears when faced with being skunked.  I guess I still
    can't make up my mind.  I kinda worry that soon someone will get a
    portble PC start programming it with water temps, lake structures, fish
    types, depths, what historically Bass have been hit both today and in
    past and have the computor spit out probable locations, depths, lure
    types etc.   If we go that far why not create tip ups for the rod so
    that we are not going to loose them because we did not feel that slight
    twinge on the rod handle as we retrieved.  I guess part of me still
    wonders how far we go with artificial stuff before fishing becomes
    mechanical instead of an art.  The other part of me also worries that
    with all of the "give us the edge stuff", all those other fishermen that
    don't "catch and release" will be able to drain off our resources even
    faster than today.
    
    the Bassassin

    In response to  Don I just threw up!
    
    John, you just reminded me of one way of fishing that I don't agree with
    and that's chumming . Besides your method is a bit odd!
    

    
        Don, I agree with you about John... Having said that, I also need
    to respond to this note. I have to admit, I don't like that feeling of
    getting skunked, so although I enjoy the experience of being out
    there and witnessing all the wonderful things Don spoke about, my
    main objective is to get at least 1 bass per hour, not "fresh
    air and sunshine" (after-all I can stay home and get that in my
    driveway). My observation is that when I go fishing, it's not me
    against the bass rather, it's me against myself. Now there lies
    the challange. If I can put up with my frustration due to the
    conditions or poor fishing etc. and still catch fish than I've
    accomplished my objective. Given the everyday sh_t we have to put
    up with which makes us feel out of control, not necessarlly challanged,
    and having to take direction and criticism from every Tom, Dick
    and Harry, I get alot out of being IN CONTROL of MY boat and making
    MY own decisions about how I wish to fish. The equipment in my boat
    is an extention of me and the way I operate,  which brings me to "the
    way I operate". I have 2 Lowrance X5's in my boat which include digital
    depth and surface temps. gages, I also have a digital in-dash air
    temp. and an in-dash flasher. If I include my gas gage, amp gage, volt 
    meters, engine tach, speedometer, and compass, I can honestly say that 
    none of these can catch fish, yet to me I think they're all important.
    In their own way they help me achieve my objectives when I'm on the
    water. How well I use them determines how much of a help, or hindrance 
    they are (I've been know to run aground watching pictures on the X5
    like it was TV). How much help I get from them depends on me and only
    me. 
    So if your thinking of outfitting yourself with all the latest stuff 
    remember, I've lost tournaments by guys who were fishing out of CANOES!!!
	VERRRRRY humbling...
    
    
    
    				Just a few thoughts
    						Jim

    
    After reading all the responses number :1 still is right on in my book. 
    
    It's not the equipment but the fisherperson.  I've fished with guys
    that spent more time running up and down the coastline looking for
    fish, structure, tall blondes, anything.  They would do everything but
    put a line in the water.

    As the old saying goes "It ain't the meat it's the motion".  I'm sure
    you all get the drift.
    
    				You either have it or you don't
    
    				Bart Lasky

  re:                      <<< Note 1306.13 by CPDW::OTA >>>

>    types etc.   If we go that far why not create tip ups for the rod so
>    that we are not going to loose them because we did not feel that slight
>    twinge on the rod handle as we retrieved.  I guess part of me still

	They already make little tip-ups for rods... I've never used one,
	but the idea is that you put the line thru it, set the little
	flag, and when the flag pops, fish on.   I think it's pushed for
	night fishing for horn pout.

	/Ken

    	To further state my case, there is ALWAYS the old adage:

    		YOU CAN TAKE A HORSE TO WATER
    
    		BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK!!!

    	Just for info, my brother has a FISH ID unit.  I ended up using it
    on my boat all this fall because he doesn't know how to use it.  Now, I
    am going to have to take him down to Pueblo Rsvr. or maybe up on
    Chatfield or Cheeseman and teach him how to use it.  He is trying to
    learn how ice fishing.  UNFORTUNATELY, he is starting to gain some
    confidence in the unit ice fishing.  So, I might just have to buy my
    own unit.  (MAYBE, I'LL JUST TEACH HIM ENOUGH ABOUT IT TO FRUSTRATE THE
    DAYLIGHTS OUT OF HIM SO HE WILL GIVE ME THE UNIT?????????)  :-)  :-) 
    :-0  I will admit that the fish finder got me a few fish this fall that
    I otherwise would never have caught.  However, we are talking LATE
    FALL, INACTIVE fish.  In all other cases, the finder only found me the
    cover to fish, not the fish.  So, if seeing what you are fishing on the
    bottom of the lake is unfair advantage, I guess it's unfair.  But, in a
    clear lake, a glass bottom in a bucket will suffice for that!!!!

    To Coonas. 
    A loon is a bird in the duck family. You cook them using a
    brick (that you build with?). Put both in the pot, when the loon is done,
    eat the brick.
    		lavendar
    
    P. S. -- I now have one of everything. I'm starting to dupe. (In reply to
    the original topic.)

    Sorta like a poule d'eau. Dere black wit a white bill and dey don neber
    mitigate to de north.
    
    Hell we eat de livers outta dem an gib de res to de turtles.
    
    Coonass

    	Howdy,
    
    	I've been a lure slinger and into catch and release long before
    (about 25 years now) it became fashionable.  I respect the fish
    I seek and try to do my part helping the resources to live a long
    future life.  I've always thought that using real bait is sort of like
    guilding the lily and usually results in deeply hooked, harder to
    release fish.  Sometimes when the chips were really down and I REALLY
    wanted a fish by hook or by crook I've used little critters to catch
    'em and can tell you that even that isn't a guaranteed thing if
    the fish aren't into playing the game with you.  
    	All these aids can't catch fish but do make the sport a bit
    easier so go for 'em if you want/can.  There is a lot to be said
    about the satisfaction one gets out of findin', foolin' and landin'
    these valuable game creatures with a minimal amount of high-tech
    gear as every trout or salmon purist knows by now but again, in
    the end it is all up to us!
    
    	Re: BasserBeazley
    
    	You sir are a truly funny fisherman and constantly crack me
    up.  Don't let your meat loaf!
    
    	Chow 4 now
    
    	::Larry::
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Well folks
    
    After much negotiation, we have now got a consensous,  My brothers all
    agreed this year to use scents and the electronics.   I used much of
    the arguments presented in this note and finally told him that hey you
    can lead a horse to water but....
    
    My die hard brother finally could see that scents, fish finder etc are
    just one more tool in our arsenal to try and catch the elusive bass.
    
    So at our annual brothers Pro/AM fishing tournemet we are going fully
    loaded.  Thanks for all your feedback.
    
    the Bassassin