Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

    
    
        How about a Surgeon's Knot...?   
                                                Kiv

    re - .1  Good suggestion.  A surgeon's knot (double overhand) is simple
             tie and a good choice when joining to lines of different
    	     diameters.
    
    re - .0  If the diameter of the mono and dacron are much different, the
    	     blood knot will slip way before the breaking strength is
    	     reached.  A blood knot does not have the strength of a
    	     surgeon's and the surgeon's is simple to tie.
    
    	     The nail knot is a good one for joining mono to dacron, but it
    	     should be a double nail knot.  One knot in each material.  
    
    	     If you decide to try a loop to loop joint, make the loops in 
             each material with a surgeon's knot.
    
    Good luck,
    Greg 

    I've always used a center-splice nail knot for this connection.
    
    Run the mono butt-end up into the dacron about 3/8" with a splicing
    needle and out through the dacron.  Tie nail knot back over the
    dacron/mono core.  Tighten slowly and finish with a drop of zap-a-gap
    cement (available at any Orvis store).
    
    This is the knot that I use to join fly lines and mono leaders and I've
    never had one come apart.  The good news about this knot is that it'll
    flow through your guides without hanging up on the ferrules like most
    other combinations you've mentioned.
    
    -Neal
    

    Just slide the mono up through the dacron (the further the better, I
    go about 15 feet on a tuna header) and whip the ends.
    
    Bruce

    Thanks for all the good advice.
    
    The good news is that there's plenty of time before the season starts
    to try them all and see which one I like best.
    
    The bad news is that there's plenty of time before the season starts.
    
    Art
    

    	I'll second the splice recommendation. It has essentially no
    increase in diameter. It holds like the Chinese finger thingies...
    note the technical definition.    :^)
    	If you want even more security, you can insert the mono several
    feet, come out say 6 inches and go back in for several feet. I don't
    recall the "official" lengths of the various portions of the slice but
    its something you can experiment with till you feel comfortable with
    it.
    
    Paul

        Please, don't mention Knots... The Boy Scouts made me learn Knots.
    Then the Coast Guard made me learn Knots. Then the Navy assumed that
    I already knew how to tie Knots. I just can Not tie Knots.
    But, I've still managed to catch my fair share of Fish using the one
    and only Knot that everybody remembers how to tie. The "Fisherman's".
    
    						tie 'em tight,
    								Bob
    

<    But, I've still managed to catch my fair share of Fish using the one
<    and only Knot that everybody remembers how to tie. The "Fisherman's".

   That's the beauty of the "UNI-KNOT", everything is a minor variation on
the same knot.  In the case of trying to join 2 lines together, it's merely
a variation (more wraps than a single overhand like you tied for the BSA) on 
the classic Boy Scout Fisherman's knot...


Al
    

    I learned a knot yesterday which seems to be just what your looking
    for. It's called the Albright knot. A Penn Rep. showed it to me last
    night for joining heavy leadcore line to a lighter monofilament. After
    a little practice it's easy.
    
    Look it up. If you can't find it let me know and I'll send you a photo-
    copy of the directions I got.
    
    Bob M.

    If you know someone who subscribes to bassmaster an issue or 2
    ago the had 2 pages of KNOTS and step by step how to tie them.
    if not drop me a note offline if you want a copy.
    
    					Ronni

    Thanks for all the advice. I've tried a few of the suggestions here and
    I thought I would share my results.
    
    I am connecting 30# braided dacron with a 50# mono header. The mono is
    Ande (pink, not the tournament grade stuff). The dacron is made by U.S.
    Line. 
    
    1. Inserting the 50# mono into the dacron proved to be impossible. The
    difference in diameters was just too great. So I had to abandon that
    idea. I think, though, that if I can find a 50# line of smaller
    diameter that I would prefer this connection over all the others.
    
    2. Back to back nail knots works very well and I like that connection,
    but I found one that was even smaller and runs through the guides
    better: This one is a uni-knot on the mono and a blood knot on the
    dacron. Makes a smaller knot and appears to be very strong.
    
    3. Tried 2 uni-knots and I don't trust it with dacron and monofilament,
    otherwise it's an excellent knot. I read somewhere that the hard
    exterior of the mono will actually "cut" the softer dacron. And it did
    in my tests. Every time I pulled on the two uni-knots to test it, the
    dacron broke, even with 50lb dacron and 50# mono.
    
    4. Tried the Albright knot, but somehow had trouble with it. Probably I
    need more practice. 
    
    
    Thanks again for all the help. 
    
    Everything is ready.....now, if we could just get one nice day to 
    get the season under way.
    
    Art
    

	I tried splicing 50 lb pink ande line to 50 lb dacron
	last night, because it sounds like a great way to join	
	the line and be able to cast jigs away from the boat without
	stumbling on a knot.  It splices a lot easier than I thought
	at first.

	How far would you splice the lines for cod fishing ?   

	It's pretty tricky keeping mono going in after a while, but I 
	think I'm getting the hang of it.  

	I spliced in a test sample about 20-24'', and could not pull	
	them apart.   However, with little tension on the lines, they
	come apart rather easily.  That's that part that worries me - 
	will the lines tend to separate if the line slacks up. 

	Do I need to splice far as 6 feet or so ?  And does threading 
	the mono out and back into the dacron give more security to 
	the line ?

	Thanks,
	Ken

re: .-1
I believe that they put a little super glue on each end and sometimes whip the
end where the mono comes out of the dacron.

Never tried it just read about it

Gordon

    Having the mono come out of the dacron and back in does help according
    to some of what I've read. I think the key, though, is to whip the ends
    using a wrap similar to what you would use in wrapping a guide, using a
    tie-off loop to slide the end under the wrap. Then cover with super
    glue or clear nail polish. 
    
    According to some advice that Bruce Sweet gave me, I think he goes 
    over 10' in on a tuna header, so I suspect the farther the better.
    
    Hope that helps.
    
    Art
    

    I not sure putting the mono header on these rigs meant for cod
    is a good use of your time. I don't think cod are leader shy
    especially down 200-300 feet. The reason to go to dacron is to
    avoid line stretch in the deep water. I just went back to dacron
    from mono becuase I know I will be fishing more deep water. I
    just tied the dacron to the snap swivel and then will come off
    the snap with the usual double teaser rig we tie (out of mono).
    The mono header makes sense for leader shy fish or to some degree
    as a shocker to add a little stretch (this is why we go about
    100yrds on a tuna header).
    
    The boat is in the water and I'll be out monday with a first hand
    report.
    
    Bruce

re:                      <<< Note 269.15 by LEVERS::SWEET >>>

	I think I agree with ya Bruce.   If it was as easy as a simple
	splice, I could handle it.  But "whipping" the ends by tieing
	guide-like loops and all that seems like a long process.  I'd
	like the end result, but it seems like a lot of work for a 
	temporary setup (ie, when the leader gets chewed up, cut, etc).

	I've been using about 15' of mono leader, as opposed to how
	you use basically dacron except for the short rig of mono.
	The reason for the long leader is advice from others who
	think the jig swims better with a long mono leader. In this
	case a swivel doesn't work so well, and I'd been using knots.
	I don't do it for leader shy fish.

	What do others use for mono leader length with dacron ?
	Think the 15'+ is needless ?

	(I've been doing real well jigging since about a year or 2 ago,
	so my system works. Don't know if it's due to more skill/feel or
	if the long leader actually helps).

	Ken

I did a little research over the winter when I was trying to find the
"ideal" line to use for jigging cod. As part of that process I wrote to 
Salt Water Sportman asking them if they would undertake a project to compare
various lines (stretch factor, resistance to abrasion, thinness, etc.). I
received the following reply from their editor, Barry Gibson. 

Basically he recommends 30-36 lb dacron with a 10 yard 50-lb mono header for
abrasion-resistance. My biggest problem was attaching the mono to the dacron 
without a swivel (see the first few replies to this note for ideas). I wound up
using a combination uni=knot/blood knot.

Hope this info helps.

Art

Here's Barry Gibson's letter:


Thank you very much for your letter of Feburary 12th. No, we've never done 
a comparison test between various brands of mono lne, but that's not to say 
we shouldn't do one in the future. We'll see if we can.

In the meantime, as one who has done quite a bit of line research and who 
has run a bottom fishing charter boat out ofMaine for the past 20-plus 
years, I have a few comments on line for deep jigging.

I too began looking for an alternative to 50-pound Dacron some years back. 
I tried mono, but it ws just too stretchy for the 250 - 350-foot depths we 
normally fish. So, I went to 30-pound Berkley braided Dacron, and it 
performed great. In experienced hands it's probably the best bottom jiggin 
gline available -- low stretch, good "feel" and hook-setting, and thin 
diameter so your jig or bait "tends" the bottom better and you can get 
plenty on your reel. In inexperienced hands it's a bit touchy --- I settled 
on Berkley's 36-pound braid for my charter rods, 30-pound for my own. I 
have no complaints and will never go back to mono for deep jigging until 
they get the stretch out. One word of caution: the braid is not as 
abrasion-resistant as mono so you have to be careful it doesn't chafe on 
the side or bottom of the boat. What I do is splice in a 10-yard "header" 
of 50-pound mono on the business end to take all the abrasion abuse on the 
bottom -- rocks, dogfish, etc. That way I get a clear "header" that's lower 
in visibility to the fish, better on abrasion, yet I get all the 
non-stretch properties of Dacron.

That's how I deal with it. Maybe you can come up with a better method.

Best regards,



Bary Gibson
Editor

    	The line splice, without a doubt, is going to take more time to do
    than one is going to be willing to spend while actually fishing. One
    variation of this that I've had pretty good luck with is to thread 
    about 2' through, run it out of the dacron, and tie a single knot
    in the mono around dacron. You still get a knot but it is a fairly 
    small one.
    
    	Regarding the line slipping out of the splice, I had that happen 
    while cod jigging. When the line goes slack after jigging, it's able 
    to slip through some before it catches again.
    
    	RAYJ

    How about doing the blind splice, wip finish the end of the dacron on
    the mono and glue with thinned rubber cement.  Then make a loop in the
    mono a short way from the dacron.  Now take another section of mono and
    make a loop in one end.  Join the two sections of mono with a loop to
    loop connection.  The second section of mono is your leader and is
    easily replaced if needed while fishing.
    
    Regards,
    Greg