Conference vmszoo::rc

        Re:< Note 183.0 by GOLD::GALLANT >

                I strongly  recommend  Great  Planes'  PT trainers as the
        first plane.   They  build  easily, are incredibly strong and are
        extremely stable.  They  can  be built either as 3-channel with a
        lot of dihedral or 4-channel  with less.  The only drawback I can
        think of is that the plane is so stable that you cannot get it to
        roll with the ailerons.  The bottom  line is that if it's a first
        plane and you want ailerons then this is the best buy around.
        
        Anker

    
    		I have as a first plane a PT-20, and am buying a wing
    	kit to put alerions on and try a flat bottomed wing with 
    	alerions. It has a .25FSR that I hope will find a home in a
    	couple of years in a Sportster 20. But Im now looking for 
    	a semetrical foiled forty shoulder wing to build over the winter. 
    	I have seen the Trainer 40 from Great Planes and I think there is
    	an inherant design problem (tail heavy). I intend to stay away 
    	from it. As far as the Train-Air 40 I dont know anything.
    	       
    				Michael Gallant
    	

        Re:< Note 183.3 by GOLD::GALLANT >

>    	I have seen the Trainer 40 from Great Planes and I think there is
>    	an inherant design problem (tail heavy). I intend to stay away 
>    	from it. As far as the Train-Air 40 I dont know anything.
        
                My Great  Planes Trainer 40 isn't tail heavy with a Saito
        .45.  The only comments of a negative nature I'd make is that the
        plane is very hot  for  a  trainer.    Because of the symmetrical
        airfoil it really has to  move!   It flies at least twice as fast
        as the PT 20.  The  greatest  problem is that the fuselage is too
        weak to stand the abuse of a  novice's heavy landings and aborted
        takeoff's.  This can be fixed easily by  home  brewing  some thin
        ply doublers.
        
                On the positive side the trainer 40 is very responsive to
        controls, particularly ailerons, which is exactly the opposite of
        the PT20.    I  fly  both  models with the same radio and have to
        switch the dual  rate controls between low and high when I switch
        planes.
        
        Anker

RE: .3

What's a Sportster 20? Who makes it?

The reason I ask is that I have a magazine plan from MAN for a
Sportster .20, just wondering if its the same plane.

    
    		I believe the name is Sportster 20 and the manufacturer
    	is Great Planes. Its a nice but small low wingger thats very
    	acrobatic, from the four of them that I have seen.
    
    					Mike
    

    
    	Getting back to the subject matter of this note, I'm not
    sure why you say the kavalier isn't a .40 sized plane? The
    oen's I've seen all ahd .40's in them. They flew great. I
    lean towards the Kavalier over the commander. The commander
    ha very long main landing gear and I've heard of problems
    keeping them in the wing. This is due to the leverage of the
    long gear legs. i'd go with the Kavalier. A good combo would
    be with an OS forty. The plane will be a little groovier than
    a cabin type aileron trained. It is really a shoulde winged
    plane. They do slow down well. The only issue I have is that
    the plane has a lot of parts. This is true of the commander as
    well. Another ship to consider is the Midwest Sweet Stik.
    With the new dihedral it is a calmer plane then the older design.
    One mor alternative if your trying to get into the air in a
    hurry would be to buy one of ModelTech's sweet sticks. They
    come with a prebuilt fuse and balsa covered foam wing. You
    could probably get one in the air in about one week.
    
    
    	Once again, I suggest that if your heart is set on a SIG
    plane go with the Kavalier. It's the better of the two kits/ships
    you mentioned.
    
    						Tom

    If you are interested in a sweet stick, I just picked up
    one of the thunder tiger sweet sticks from hobby shack.
    For $70 it comes completely built ready for your choice
    of covering. I was really suprised how well made, and how complete
    the kit is. Every thing fits together really nice, and it comes
    complete with hinges, control horns, push rods, fuel tank, wheels, etc.
    The only thing I had to buy to complete it was a couple of rolls
    of ultracote. I hope to see how it flys real soon.
    
    Wayne

    I HAVE A TRAINER 40 AND REALLY LIKE IT. HAD TO PUT A LITTLE WEIGHT
    IN FRONT, IT WAS SLIGHTLY TAIL HEAVEY. ITS STRONG AND A GOOD TRAINER.
    ITS A NICE SIZE AND EASY TO SEE. I WOULD RECCOMMEND IT AS A FIRST
    PLANE.

You guys aren't listening - there is some reason why more people have learned
to fly with a Carl Goldberg Falcon 56 than any other RC Plane.

              _!_
Bye        ----O----
Kay R. Fisher / \
 
==============================================================

    
    I reply the first note if your looking for a trainer do not buy
    the kavelier or comander they are not trainer aircraft.SIG
    manufacture will suggest that you buy the KADET MK11.That's
    the one I trained on and it is very easy to build step buy
    step detailed instruction I found it very easy.
    
       I am now in the proccess of building the SIG KAVELIER with
    an o.s. 40.The KADET that i just sold is a good trainer because
    it has a flat bottom wing with airloins,and very stable.
    
      You could put an o.s. 40 on the KAVELIER if you want.The
    KAVELIER has a semi-semetical wing witch unlike the KADAT
    makes it very unstable for the beginner.If you have any
    questions call me @223-6967.
    
       I think that for the beginner sig makes a very good aircraft.
    
    
                                        KEEP'EM FLYING
                                         Jerry

    Lot's of opinions again! That's good, it means there are a lot of
    good planes to choose from.
    
    I just finished my Sig Kavalier and got it in the air this week.
    I love it! It is a "40 size" plane; the ads say .29 to .40 but
    I can't imagine it with a .29. I have an OS 45FSR which is plenty 
    of engine for it.

    It has a rugged landing gear, as Tom pointed out, and that's important
    to guys like me who occasionally have a somewhat harder than
    recommended landing. My first few flights wound up short of the
    landing strip (it comes down faster than the Kadet, which is what
    I was used to), and dropped into tall grass with no damage whatsoever.
    A low-wing plane would likely have sustained some gear/wing damage
    from one of those landings.
    
    If you're looking for a first trainer, though, I wouldn't recommend
    the Kavalier. It is my second plane. I started on the Kadet Mk
    II. The good thing about the Kavalier is it picks up where the Kadet
    left off. Meaning, I can fly it slow and steady, it's easy to take
    off and stable on landings. But I can now begin increasing the speed
    and trying some of the aileron maneuvers that you can't do on the
    Kadet.
    
    If you start with the Kadet, I wouldn't bother with putting ailerons
    on it. I have Kadet wings with and without, and it's designed such
    that the ailerons and rudder do much the same thing (ailerons are
    just like more rudder), which is why I wouldn't consider the Kadet 
    a good aileron trainer.
    
    The Kavalier is not difficult to build, but it does take a significant
    amount of time and moderate skill. It was somewhat harder than building
    the Kadet (I got my Kavalier for Christmas, and just finished it
    last weekend, but I didn't put consistent time into it).
    
    One of the guys I fly with just started with a PT40, and we think
    that's a great first trainer, and probably has better aileron action
    than the Kadet.

    If you're anywhere near Westboro, MA, let me know and you can check
    out the Kavalier some day at lunch time.
    
    Dave Hughes

    Mike, I think you're on the right track - put an aileron wing
    on the PT-20 and follow it up with the Kavalier.  You can put
    a 40 in it.  Check out Dave's Kavalier next time you join us
    at lunchtime.  Looks like a nice plane to me.
    	Everyone got a bit carried away with their trainer recommendations.
    Funny how emotional people get about their trainers!  I guess it's
    kinda like your first child.
    						Bill

    I forgot to add that a plane is only tail heavy if you let it be.
    
    							Bill
    

    On aileron trainers, and the Sportster 20 (two different beasts).
    I've taken a new member's Great Planes 40 sized aileron trainer
    up for him earlier this spring with excellent stability and
    controllability.   It balanced nicely, and as Bill said, tail
    heavy isn't forever (I paraphrased that).  
    
    The Sportster 20 (now after some 20+ flights for my new one), is
    also by Great Planes, and it flies great.  Having built Goldbergs,
    Top Flites, Midwests, Krafts, Sigs, Royal, Sterling, kits in the
    past, I liked the Great Planes kits.  (Don't ask where all the above
    planes are).
    
    			-Mike