Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    How big of an area are you looking for?  Give me a call off line.
    
    Jeff

    I just received the application for the NH Gundog training
    permit. It asked for the type of game used in training, but
    does not list pigeons, it does list gamebirds. Is a pigeon
    considered a gamebird in NH?
    
    Does anyone have any experience with the NH Gundog training
    permits? Is this permit required to use pigeons in training? 
    I spoke with two different people in Concord, and got two 
    different answers.... neither was absolutely positive.
    
    Any help would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    Michael

    This is California, but I think that if you contact your local fish and
    game the rules may be the same. Pigeons are varmits here, you can
    collect them (ask any farmer to catch them in his barn). Bridges are
    also a good source for birds. Use a fishing net to catch them at night.
    Training permit here costs $3.00 it cannot be used during the spring as
    we dont want dogs out killing the chicks.  For hunting Pigeons there is
    no permit required (you catch them and they are your property) However
    I have one just in case the game warden has a bug up his butt.  Air
    wash the birds, ( turn them over and rub there stomach this will put
    them to sleep then chuck them a few feet away from you and mark the
    spot.  They will stay put until you bring the dog in (you might have to
    kick the bird up with your foot).  
    hope this helps
    Joe

    
    Joe,

>    This is California, but I think that if you contact your local fish and
>    game the rules may be the same. Pigeons are varmits here, you can
>    collect them (ask any farmer to catch them in his barn). Bridges are
>    also a good source for birds. Use a fishing net to catch them at night.

    I live in MA, where according to the Wildlife and Fisheries person I
    spoke with, pigeons are considered "Rock Doves"? Anyway this person
    "strongly" suggested that I do no such thing in MA!
    
    So that is why the questions about neighboring states.
    
    I have spoken to a VT game warden who said the there is no problems
    using pigeons for training in VT.
    
    I have a call into a RI and NH game warden, hopefully I hear from them
    soon.

>    I have one just in case the game warden has a bug up his butt.  Air
>    wash the birds, ( turn them over and rub there stomach this will put
>    them to sleep then chuck them a few feet away from you and mark the
>    spot.  They will stay put until you bring the dog in (you might have to
>    kick the bird up with your foot).  
>    hope this helps
 
    I've heard of spinning a bird to make it dizzy, but not this method.
    Have you used it? Does it work? How long will the pigeon stay put?
    
    Thanks,
    Michael
 
 

    I have done this many times. I causes the blood to rush to the head. 
    The birds stay put for quite a while. Since pigeons are a problem
    consider buying Quail from a breeder. I buy Red Legged Partridge from a
    Vet here for $8.00 each. A little steep but after a while he will gives
    me a few birds when he has two many.  I might be able to have him send
    them out for a little more.  I do the same thing with these as the wife
    has a standing order to stop the storing of live game she will have to eat.
    City folk!!  By air washing the bird the dog has to work for them not
    just follow your scent to the birds. (my dog knowns that I placed them
    for her if she smells me and she wont point. I guess she figures I
    know where the birds are.
    Joe.
    

    Interesting note:
    
    Last night I was training with some friends and a EPO officer
    stopped in to see what we were doing. She was very pleasant so
    after a few minutes talking to her I decided to ask about using
    pigeons for training in MA. I explaining some of the conversations
    that I have had with other EPO officers from other states and
    my conversation with the MA Wildlife and Fisheries.
    
    Her reply was not what I expected.
    
    She said that there are no laws that prohibit using pigeons for 
    training, including shooting the pigeons over your dog. However,
    you could be in volution of cruelty to animal laws, this would
    be something like retrieving live birds for training. She explained 
    that this is a gray area and depends... etc. 
    
    The bottom line was that it is not very clear, it comes down to the
    interpretation of the EPO officer and the judge if it comes to that.
    
    She also had some suggestions that were helpful.
    
    Michael