Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

      Wow.  That is sure a frightening story.  Glad everything turned
    out all right.  Its hard to imagine what provoked the bear.  You
    haev to wonder if there is something wrong with the bear (rabies?).
    I have also seen bears in the woods, but (as you stated) they all
    have run off when spooked.  As for the handgun, that would be il-
    legal to carry with you while bow hunting (at least in Vt), but it
    sure makes you think about it.  We had two coyote attacks on Bow 
    hunters last year here in Vt.  Makes you kinda nervous about walking
    in the woods in the dark, eh??
    
    -Ron-

    BTW, you should also post this note in the archery notesfile.
    That is located in IMGAWN::ARCHERY.

I'm curious.  Has the Mace that you mentioned been proven effective
against bears?  And what's the deal with Cayenne Pepper?  Does all
mace have it, or just certain brands?  This seems like important
information to know.

Jerry

    I TALKED TO SPORTS SHOPS THAT SELL THE MACE AND THEY TELL ME IT WILL
    RENDER A HUMAN HELPLESS FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES OR SO WITH NO SIDE
    EFFECTS.
    IT ATTACKS THE EYES AND MUCOUS MEMBRANES, THE MEMBRANES I UNDERSTAND
    WILL SWELL SEVERLEY. IT WILL ALSO WORK ON BEARS AND I BELEIVE IT MIGHT
    BE EVEN WORSE TO THEM BECAUSE OF THEIR ACUTE SENSE OF SMELL. THE CONN.
    GAME WARDEN I TALKED TO EVEN CARRIES IT BUT HE HAS IT MORE FOR DOGS.
    THE OLD MACE (WITHOUT PEPPER) WAS PROVEN TO BE NOT EFFECTIVE
    ENOUGH IF A PERSON WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR NARCOTICS IT
    COULD POSSIBLY MAKE THEM MORE ANGRY. THIS NEW MACE IS POTENT.

 What we are talking about is the capsicum spray (not mace!) which has recently
been approved for self defense. I believe that the anti-bear version of this 
spray is a more potent concentration of the capsicum (the active ingredient
in hot peppers). The anti-bear spray is purported to be selling well in the
pacific northwest; I don't know how available it is around here.

 The Doctah

    Re: Capsicum spray
    
    	How reliable is it ? Any field test results ? This particular
    	bear sounds like the type that would only get more pissed
    	after being sprayed. I get the feeling that he would have
    	backed off, but when the spray wore off would have been
    	a wee-bit more agressive
    
    	If anyone has more input on the effectivness of this spray
    	please input as the results may or may not be useful to
    	others.
    
    	As a side thought, I've always questions why they don't let
    	archers carry side arms. As for the poaching side, hell if it's
    	bow season, someone is sure to notice a handgun being fired.
    
    	Red

    I remember while at a gun show a few years back, one table was selling
    this stuff(pepper mace). His sales pitch was that some forest ranger
    somewhere used it to drop a grizzly bear. I bought a 4oz can of the 10%
    capisum solution just not to long ago. I carry it with me when in the
    woods, along with a 41mag. The guy at the table did not say how much
    was used to drop the grizzly. There was a discussion of this type of
    deterant in the firearms notes file awhile back. We have been ordering
    the 5% stuff for humans and the 10% stuff for bears here in CXO for
    over a year. We get it from Ollie North's place in arizona. Its called
    bodyguard(human) and Bearguard(bears) the also sell Dog guard which is
    a 1/2oz of 10% capiscum.  If you're interested send me mail.
    JC 

    Guardian Personal Security Products
    Dept. CH
    8350 North 7th Street
    Phoenix, AZ. 85020
    
    1-800-527-4434
    
    Ask about "BEARGUARD" not "bodyguard"

    
    Got me totally convinced. I just called Guardian Personal Security
    Products and ordered it.  It comes in various sizes, starting at
    4 oz. on thru l5 oz.  They informed me that the most popular size 
    with hunters is 9 oz.   The price is $39.95 (without a holster) or
    $49.95 with a holster.
    
    They take all kinds of credit cards and service is a couple of days
    delivery for a minimal fee.
    
    

    cheez and rice!  my god, it put skid marks in my undies!  how many days
    Earl.
    
    bob
    

    15 days bob.
    
    
    Earl S

    
      I was reading the local Springfield MA paper's sportsman column
    yesterday.Frank Sousa wrote of two bear attacks recently on hunters
    in Conn.One was on a Westfield MA. man in Colebrook and the other
    attack was in Peoples State forest down there.Was either of these
    the incident reported in here?I hope this wouldn,t make 3!
       When I woke from a nap with the kids Sunday night my dog was
    in the house which is unusual.My wife said that he was barking and
    growling on the back steps so she flipped on the floodlights.There
    was a big bear out about 50 feet.SDhe opened the door and the dog
    backed in.Guess he learned after I saved his butt from the last
    bear he tussled with!
                                                 John Grabowski
                                                 Montgomery MA.
     I heard they took 3 bears
    in town this last season
    

    The one in the paper from Sousa is from me, I entered the note here
    also.

    During the past year I've read several accounts of hikers in the
    Cascades (east of Seattle) being mauled and in one case being killed
    by bears.  Seems that the fatality was caused by the group not having
    bells or rocks in a can around their necks as they normally would.
    Usually, this noise is enough to scare away most blacks and grizzlies,
    yes there is a population here.
    
    When a grizzly entered my campground I considered myself lucky when he 
    backed off after we started whispering ever so quietly while gradually
    increasing the level from the nearby tent.  While living in Montgomery
    Mass I used the same tactic from a partially opened door while I gazed
    at a 300 lb. + black bear who was on my deck.
    
    These days while fishing or mushrooming in the Cascades I carry a
    sidearm and make it a point to make human noises after dark. Going
    to one's treestand and making some noise would clear the woods of
    bears in all probability and I bet normal conversational levels would
    not spook a deer either. I have eyeballed deer, nice bucks, during 
    hunting season from within 30 ft of my car with the engine running.
    However, when I would shut the engine off they would be off in a flash.
    
    I believe the bear was startled and reacted to protect himself. In
    anycase I'm glad you came away unscathed.
    
    

Well, I had a close encounter with Goldilocks and the three bears
this weekend (ok, I'm lying about Goldilocks), but it wasn't near
as exciting as the one in the base note.  It did get a bit tense,
though.

I was still hunting though heavy aspens (western Colorado) this past
Sunday.  I heard something that sounded like a footstep on the leaves.
It was very dry, and the forest floor was covered with leaves, so it
was also very noisey.  Anyway, I just stood and waited, and about
5 minutes later I saw something brown coming toward me.  At first I
thought I was looking at a cow elk, but as it got closer, I realized
it was 3 bears.  There was a sow and her cub (it was very small), and
a third bear about the size of the sow.  I don't know if it was last
year's cub, or if it was just another adult tagging along.  I didn't
ask.

The bears had not detected me, and were meandering toward me.  When
the got to about 20 yards away (I already had my rifle ready and
the safety off), I called out to them.  They stopped and looked at me.
I made sure that they saw me.  The third bear headed back in the direction
from which they came, and the sow and cub just changed their direction
to head away from me.  The third bear then followed them.  They never
did seem to get excited, as they walked away from me at the same
pace as they were originally walking.  And that was it.  All it took
was to let them know where I was before they got too close for comfort.

In this case, I really do think it was just a matter of letting them
know where I was before they got too close.  I was ready to shoot, but
it never came to it.  Regardless, it's one of those little adventures
that happen when you're hunting, and will make a great fireside story
for years to come.

Jerry

P.S.  I also hunted in a different direction aftewards.  No sense taking
any chances.

    Jerry:
    
      What kind of bears were they? Blackies or "Ursus Horriblis (griz)"
      :-)
    
    Joe

>>                      <<< Note 1206.16 by MKFSA::HOLLEN >>>
>>
>>    Jerry:
>>    
>>      What kind of bears were they? Blackies or "Ursus Horriblis (griz)"
>>      :-)
    
    Joe,

They wuz blackies.  There aren't (supposedly) any Grizzlies in that
part of Colorado.  FWIW, there was a recent sighting of a Grizzly in
the San Juan mountains of southern Colorado.  This made news because
Grizzlies were thought to be extinct in the state.  A research team
combed the area for several weeks/months but didn't see a single
Griz.  However, feces and hair samples that were collected were
analyzed in a lab in Montana, and the lab analysis established that
they were indeed from Grizzlies.  So, maybe there are some still here.

Jerry

P.S.  I think it was in the 70s when someone killed a Grizzly in this
same mountain range.  They were thought to be extinct at that time,
also.  When this happened, it was assumed that this was the last
remaining Grizzly in Colorado.

Jerry,

	Sounds like the right thing to do. Did you react out of knowlege of
the bears or just instinctive??

	Reason I asked is because I just learned some new things about animals
from my son who just got a degree in wildlife biology.

Point is he told me all animals (including MAN) have a "flight distance".
This is defined by the biologists as being the distance that the animal will
tolerate danger knowing it can flee. If by chance you are inside this flight
distance limit before the animal knows you are there then flight is ruled out
and agression takes over for defense.

I know from experience that for an alligator the distance is about 30 ft.
I also whistle and talk to myself when going to or from stand in the dark.

I was just tring to make the point that the bear did not necessairly have
to have anything wrong with it to react like it did. It's self preservation
instinct told it flight was out of the question because of the proximity of 
the danger and agression was the only option left.

FWIW
Harvey

>>       <<< Note 1206.18 by MUTT::HAMRICK "The Great White Rabbit ..." >>>
>>                          -< FLIGHT DISTANCE  a SWAG >-



>>Jerry,
>>
>>	Sounds like the right thing to do. Did you react out of knowlege of
>>the bears or just instinctive??

Harvey,

A little bit of both.  I've heard and read lots of advice to the
effect that you should make lots of noise when going through Grizzly
country so that you won't surprise them at close range.  Also, it
just seemed like the smart thing to do.  My reasoning was something
to the effect of 1) she didn't know I was there and was headed at
me, 2) I wanted to give her a chance to change directions while she
had time to react and I had time to shoot.  And since she had a cub
with her, I sure didn't want to get between her and the cub.  In
other words, I pretty much agree with your assessment of the
situation.

As a side note, one of the other hunters in our party spotted a
sow and a cub the same day.  It was definitely different bears,
as the ones I saw were brown and these were black.  All in
all, we saw 5 bears.  This is the third year we've hunted this place,
and have seen bears every year.  Maybe I'll apply for a bear tag
next year. ;-).

On a more humorous note, one of the other hunters in our part (he's
74) was walking back to camp in the near-dark.  He saw something small
and black stirring close to him and just about ruined his pants (his
description).  It turned out to be a porcupine, but at first he
thought it was a bear cub, and he was afraid that Mama would not
appreciate his familiarity with junior.  Guess I can't blame him
for that.

Jerry

P.S.  That's the great thing about hunting.  Even if you don't get
anything, you still have lots of neat stories.

In the FWIW category, I spoke with a DOW official yesterday and mentioned
the 3 bears.  I was curious about a sow with a small cub having another,
larger bear tagging along.  His best guess was that it was probably
her female cub from a previous year.  He said that occassionally,
a sow will allow a female cub to tag along for awhile, but will 
eventually run it off.  He didn't think it was a boar, or just
another bear friend.

Jerry