Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    Personally I think it is un-sporting to shoot them on the ground/water
    they don't have a chance. Being taught in MA, and now hunting in NH
    this is what seems to be the common belief. 
    
    However, this seems to be a location dependant thing. A person I know
    who grew up in Northern Maine, just about in Canada, and I were talking
    about partridge hunting. I guess the normal thing to do up there is 
    shoot them on the ground.
    
    I guess you should do what makes you comfortable though.
    
    --Bob
    

    My goal is to have a good time.
    
    My definition of a good time is to enjoy the fresh air, the good
    company, the preparation, having ducks deke and just being out.
    
    Shooting ducks is a bonus.  Watching a dog retrieve, whether it be
    after my duck or someone else's, is a real treat.
    
    Mark.

    I was taught NEVER to shoot duck on the water...Not very sporting, and
    can be hazardous to anyone or anything that happens to be in the 	
    general direction of the shot...
    
    Yep, I can second the statement "Watching a dog retrieve, is a real
    treat"...
    
    Jeff...

    I don't duck hunt, but I agree with all replies so far.  I feel that
    it is unsporting like, and unsafe to shoot at a "sitting duck" in the
    water.  One of the first things they teach in ANY hunter safety course
    is, "DON'T SHOOT AT WATER!!"  That sounds like putting a deer on a
    leash tying the other end to a tree, and fire away.
    
    Bob
    a hunter who hunts by the book!  You have to defend hunting, there are
    alot of people out there who want to abolish it.  If you hunt like a
    slob, you don't deserve the right to hunt.  that's my .02 cents worth.
    

    
    
       I'll have to disagree with "not shooting at water with a shotgun".  I
    don't believe that it constitutes much of a threat as the maximum range
    of a shotgun is quite short even when not slowed by water.  Also how do
    you guys kill cripples if you don't shoot them on the water?   I've
    never seen shot (lead or steel) bounce off the water.  It could I
    suppose but I've never seen it.  I think the lessons people are
    remembering about not shooting at water apply to Rifles.
    
       I do agree that you should take them on the wing.  It is far more
    challenging and you have a better chance of hitting the vitals when
    their chest isn't resting in the water.  Also I wouldn't want to be the
    guy with 400 decoys that shoots ducks sitting in them.  WOW what a lot
    of decoy patching he must do! 8-)
    
     My $.02
    Chuck

                My dad always encouraged me not to shoot ducks in
    the water.  I think the first and foremost reason was because
    he didn't like the thought of shooting at that level, meaning
    straight across a body of water.  I personally took two pellets
    in my upper thigh because of a careless shooter, doing exactly
    that.  I was obviously closer then he thought.  The second rea-
    son was that he said when they are on the water, feeding or
    what-ever, they are even harder to kill, unless of course a
    pellet catches them in the head.  But, with their wings up
    against their body, it is much harder for a pellet to penetrate.
    Anyway, I would feel much better about taking a duck on the
    wing, then shooting it off the water.  Actually, after the way 
    I shot last year, I'll probably throw a party if I knock one
    down this year..............
    
                Bob
                   

    
    From the stand point of sporting, the only time that fowl be shot when
    in contact with the ground is when crippled,(this applies to water)    
    period.  
    
    There is a cultural difference to be considered, however the
    description of the hunter types leads me to believe that they are not
    just doing this to survive or for the meat.  Ducks are very
    interesting, I was just amazed when I saw them in flight avoiding
    shotgun blast, unless one is proficient, assuming the ducks are not
    right on top of them, downing them is a challenge.  Sounds like the
    folks your talking about like all the odds in their favor.  BTW what
    are local hunting laws in the area, do they support this type of
    hunting activity?
    
    leonard
    

    
        After hunting ducks for about 30 years, it's interesting to note
    that everyone's replies had something of value to add. Thanks Brett for
    bringing it up. I personally won't shoot a duck on the water unless
    it is a cripple that I feel even my dog won't be able to retrieve.
       I hunt off an island rock blind, so the dangers of ricochet are
    less, but, the minute a duck hits the water from being shot from 
    our blind, the dog is in the water and I'm not about to let someone
    shoot over the dogs' head. If it's a feisty cripple that is of the
    diver variety, I'll hold the dog, wait until it is out of my deke
    spread and then put it out of its' misery. If ducks decoy into my
    spread and I'm sitting there drinking coffee (which does happen) and my
    hunting partner doesn't see them, well, shame on us. We will attempt
    to take them as they're departing, however. I've brought my 14 year old
    up on the advice that we don't shoot ducks sitting on the water only on
    the wing. He picked off his first birds last year.... a hen merganser
    and a drake Whistler(or Goldeneye).
        9 more days to the opener.
    
                  John
    in the water, and I'm not about to 
    

    
    Seems there is a general consensus.  I agree with a few exceptions.
    Everyone has different ideas about what the challenge of the hunt
    should be.  For me, this happens once or twice a year, I will spot
    a flock of late season blacks, red legs (Canadian migrators), and
    will put the sneak on them with my dog.  Now sometimes it takes 2
    hours to sneak up on a flock of 30-100 birds without being seen/heard,
    and with a dog mind you.  So when I get in position, and can take a 
    shot that will allow me to stay within the legal framework, that is
    one black duck, I will take it cleanly on the water.  Two years ago
    I wouldn't have done this, but that's when I shot and 2 birds went 
    down, even when I picked a bird on the edge of the flock.  So it's 
    safer, legally, for me to take the bird on the water.  As far as the
    challenge goes, killing the bird is not that challenging, sneaking up
    for the 2 hours and waiting for the shot is the challenge.  I don't
    feel bad about it at all, sometimes I win, sometimes they win.
    
    Brett, I've noticed this behavior goose hunting on this club I hunt
    once or twice a year, where this one blind let all the birds land.
    Something I wouldn't do, especially in a decoying environment.  Feel
    good you have developed the ethics you have, for some people killing
    is everything, these people miss alot of what the whole experience
    really means.  IMO.
    
    Kevin

      I have to agree with the majority of folks in here.  While legally
    there is nothing wrong with shooting a sitting duck, I believe it is
    contrary to what makes duck hunting the experience it is.  To me,
    the fun of hunting ducks or geese involves putting out a spread and
    calling the birds in range and killing them cleanly.  The challenge 
    is in fooling them at there _own_ game.  Sometimes you talk to geese
    until your blue in the face and they still won't come in.  Thats part
    of the game.  Anyone can hit a sitting duck.  Whats the challenge? 
    There is nothing like the thrill of working and finally pulling a flight 
    of geese to a set of dekes, and then dropping a couple cleanly as they
    set there wings.  The iceing on the cake is watching a good dog
    retrieve the dead birds.  In my mind the only reason to shoot a sitting
    duck is to dispatch a cripple.  We don't allow people who hunt with us
    to shoot sitting birds.  My partner and I have Labs which we love
    dearly.  While they are generally steady, they have been known to break
    on occasion.  A breaking dog and shooting birds on the ground don't
    mix.  If folks want to shoot sitting ducks then thats there buisness,
    just don't do it if you want to hunt with me, over my dekes, infront of 
    my dog.
    
    Jeff                                        

    
    
    To some, all hunting is unsporting, to others it is sporting to shoot
    game which is flying or running, but not sitting or standing. To still
    others, the essence of the hunt is locating the game and obtaining a
    clean, one shot kill, and they have no qualms about shooting a sitting
    partridge, standing deer, or swimming (sitting) duck.
    
    
    Rick
    

    
    	I know of a former noter(here and in Firearms) that blasted one on
    the water.
    
    Turned out to be a Decoy!
    
    
    	Chuck
    

    Re.11 
    
     Rick,
    
      I agree that it all depends on the individuals particular outlook.
    I think that fact is a big reason why good hunting partners are
    hard to find. It is difficult to find individuals who have the same
    set of values as you do.  I won't hunt with folks who shoot birds on
    the ground.  I don't enjoy hunting with folks who do these types of
    things.  Being that I am out to enjoy myself, I hunt with folks who
    feel as I do.
    
    Jeff

    So Jeff, where's the invitation?
    
    :^)
    
    Mark.

    
    
     in reading the responses in here I too am amazed at the different
    idea's ethics of people. I for one can speak from experience shooting
    at water with ANY WEAPON is extremely dangerous, and being a NRA
    instructor I have never told a class its ok to shoot at water with a 
    shotgun but not a rifle, I was also shot during duck season one time, 
    and it was the last time I hunted ducks, kinda hard to get over being 
    shot in the back from 60 yrds by #4's, thank god the pellets didnt
    penetrate my skin but I had 1 inch black & blue circles all over my 
    back for a week!
    
      I will say that any wounded animal should be put out of its misery as
    soon as possible, whether you shot it first or someone else shot it,
    dont let an animal suffer, but also dont do something dangerous either.
    
    I agree its very unsportsman like to shoot any animal in/on the water,
    and the only bird that is sporting to shoot on the ground is a turkey,
    unless you hunt grouse like I enjoy hunting them with a .22, if you
    have never done it try it, they are really hard to see and to shoot
    them in the head is a real challange.
    
                                      My .02 worth
                                                    Lee
    

    Well, I'm glad to see that I am not totally out of contact with the
    world.  For the most part, folks here seem to share the same ideas on
    "what you do" when you sit in a duckblind.
    
    So let me re-emphasize what I think I've observed (again, lots of times,
    more than not).  I believe that most of the folks feel that the game is
    to set the dekes, then call them in until they land.  It seems that the
    game ends with a duck sitting on the edge of the decoy formation and
    then shooting the duck is just a matter of fact.  Then the dog does the
    retreive on command.
    
    I saw this happen so much that I thought I was hunting incorrectly. 
    Then one day, I was hunting at on end of a lake.  At the other end of
    the lake (not so big) were two duck blinds across from each other.  One
    group of hunters had been taking ducks in the fashion I described.  
    
    A flock came down low and circled.  I thought they were well within
    range and I'm no skybuster.  No shots fired.  A second pass.  No shots.
    The third and final approach, the one group of hunters opened up and
    dumped a few.  The guys that were shooting them on the water were
    royally peeved that these guys took them in the air.  Both groups had
    equally good range on the ducks but only the one group fired.
    
    I decided that since I would have fired, then I must not hunt right. 
    Therefore, I better get up *real* early and head way out to the
    boonies where nary a hunter will be found!
    
    Thanks for the sanity check.
    
    /brett

    
    
    RE: .15
    
       You say as an NRA instructor you never taught that it was any better
    to shoot at water with a shotgun than a rifle but you didn't say how
    you'ld go about dispatching cripples?  
    
        I don't worry much about shot bouncing off the water because as I
    taught in my Hunter Safety courses  you don't shoot if there's someone
    in the "general direction" of the target anyway.   I see little
    difference in sending shot in a "general direction" by bouncing it on
    water or by sending it through the air.
    
    Chuck

    So,

    Shooting at an aerial target avoids injuring people (other hunters),
    their pets (hunting dogs) and private property (decoys or other
    equipment).
    
    Should dispatching a cripple become necessary one should make every
    effort to determine that nothing else will be affected before
    firing (clean shot, no obstructions).
    
    This kind of discussion is the reason I read this file. Just the
    kind of info a novice needs.
    
    
    Doug.
    

    
    	Not totally Doug.  I've been *rained on* more than
    	once by another hunter's shot pellets launched from
    	a good distance away.  The first thing I do is cover
    	my dog's eyes when I hear it start hitting the ground.
    
    	Clay