Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    The length of barrel plays a "key" part in the swing of your gun. For
    Trap shooting and Waterfowl hunting you would prefer to have a 30"+
    barrel, but most Field guns on the market today come with a 28" barrel.
    When sighting your target the longer the barrel the smoother your swing
    will be, and the shorter will be fast and jerky.
    
                                                  Hope this helped,
    
                                                       Guy
    

    Clay,
    
     Give us a little help.  What type of action do you want?  How
    much are you willing to spend?
    
    Jeff

    Jeff, Clay is making the big stamps.  
    
    Soak 'im.
    
    Mark.

    
    	Ha!  I'm just a lowly tech. Mark.  :^)
    
    	Anyway, I prefer semi-auto but haven't totally ruled out
    	a pump.  I've had my eye on the Remington 11/87 with the
    	dull finish.
    
    	Clay

    
    	I forgot something.  Won't a longer barrel cause the
    	pattern to be held tighter than a shorter barrel?  
    	I'm already shooting steel shot (which in itself has
    	tighter patterns).  The 28" barrel might be the longest
    	I'd want to go shooting steel wouldn't it?
    
    	Clay

    
    
>    	I'm already shooting steel shot (which in itself has
>    	tighter patterns).  The 28" barrel might be the longest
>    	I'd want to go shooting steel wouldn't it?
    
    	I'd go as long as you feel comfortable with. The longer your
    barrel, the more range you're going to get (more powder gets burned
    rather than thrown out the end of the barrel). Your going to want the
    tightest pattern you can get, also.
    
    
    						jim s.

    
    
      Compared to rifles a 12 GA shotgun has a huge expansion ratio (the
    amount of space available for the gasses to expand when the gunpowder
    is ignited) and a comparatively fast burning powder.  The amount of
    un-burned powder expelled from a shotgun is probably nil.  But a 30"
    barrel on an average 12 GA will increase your effective range by about
    2" over a 28" barrel.8-)
    
      Also, if you're shooting steel shot you may find that getting tight
    patterns is not a problem.  I've found that with my gun the patterns I
    get with steel shot are much tighter than those I get with lead.  The
    steel shot doesn't deform in the barrel like lead does and so files
    truer.
    
      I like a 28" as it balences my Winchester 1300 slightly weight
    forward and gives ME a good swing.  Get the barrel length that feels
    "right" for you.
    
    my $.02
    Chuck

      With modern powders, the _vast_ majority of powder in a shotgun 
    shell is burned with in about 15" going dwn the barrel.  A longer
    barrel gives you virtually no advantage in in down range effectiveness.
    In the days of black powder it did help because black powder burns alot 
    slower.  The only advantage of a longer barrel is the longer sighting
    plane and the added weight helps some people to smooth out there swing.
      In regards to chokes, most people in this country are way over choked.
    In Britain they use IC or cylinder for just about everything.  Besides 
    if you buy an 11-87 it comes with Rem-Chokes (invectors) so you can
    switch them anyway.  I shoot geese with an IC/MOD Citori and manage to
    kill a couple each year.  Don't get conned into thinking you need a 
    Full choke to kill a duck or goose.  If you keep your ranges reasonable
    and aim for the head you'll kill them, regardless of the steel vs lead
    debate.
    
    Jeff

    
    Some old myths about shotguns:
    
    -a longer barrel will hold a tighter pattern
    
    	This is absolutely untrue.  The only thing that affects pattern,
        from the barrels point of view, is the choke.  A 21" barrel will
    	pattern pretty darn close to a 30" barrel.  The point is EVERY
        barrel patterns a little different.
    
    -a longer barrel will extend your range, allowing more powder to
     burn
    
        Also basically untrue.  And I quote (Vermont Fins & Feathers, June
     	1984, "Barrel Length Revisited, by Tom Roster);
    
    	"For every inch of barrel beyond 20" and out to a max. length of
    	40", about 4 ft. per second is gained at the muzzle for any given
    	load."
    
    	He goes on to talk about the difference between 2 barrels 5"
    	different in length.  "..the difference in muzzle velocity between
        a 26" and a 32" would be about 25 fps, and 25 fps at the muzzle is
    	a difference so slight its negligible.  In fact there must be a
    	difference of at least 100 fps in muzzle velocity before per-pellet
        retained energy and lead distance is significanlty affected
    	down-range."
    
    	I've also heard and Tom Roster points out that, "Another concern
    	with barrel length stems from the MIStaken notion that slower-burning
    	powders require more barrel length in which to completely ignite
    	than do faster-burning powders."  and "..with modern smokeless
    	powders, complete combustion takes place within the first 18" of
    	barrel length, and USUALLY before the shot charge and wad column
    	travels 6" past the chamber.  So as long as your barrel is longer 
    	than 10", it doesn't matter a bit whether you've got a 26,28,30,
    	or 32" barrel.
    
                     
    The only real advantages to a longer barrel are:
    
    	-increased sight plane
    	-more weight on the front end to stabalize the swing, primarily a
         concern with the pass shooter.
    
    The advantages of a shorter barrel are:
    
    	-quicker swing
    	-quicker target acquisition
        -quicker gun mounting
        -etc.
    
    Weigh out the advantages/disadvantages of each scenario, and depending
    on what type of hunting you're going to do, make a decision.
    
    I'll offer some personal experience.  I was under some of the same mis-
    conceptions a lot of other people have about the questions you asked,
    and the question I answered.  So I went out and bought a shotgun with
    a 30" barrel.  It took me a long, long time to get use to it.  I can
    shoot it fairly good now, but it's a fairly slow moving gun.  Than I
    educated my self and bought a 21" barrel for the gun.  I can kill ducks
    and geese as effectively with that little barrel and it didn't take 
    any time to get use to.  So the 30" barrel sits collecting dust, or I
    use it occasionally.  I am an avid duck hunter, and I have found
    absolutely no reason to have a barrel longer than 21", the minimum
    length barrel I could buy.  By the way, I use steel shot and that's
    what these statements are based on.  Good luck sorting all this out.
    
    Kevin                                
    
    

    
    re .8
    
    Jeff you summed it up pretty good, I was entering some quotes and
    you slipped in under my reply.  I agree with you, I shoot IC for
    ducks/geese.

 I got the 26" barrel on my 11-87. I wish I got the 28" barrel; I think it
is more balanced on the 11-87. Live and learn.

 The Doctah

    
    	Thanks guys.  I knew I came to the right place :^)
    
    	FWIW, I've always used an improved cylinder for
    	waterfowl as well (shooting steel).  My only complaint
    	about steel is that unless you break a wing or hit 'em
    	in the head, the bird is gonna fly a ways before hitting
    	the ground........but that's what my yellow lab is for :^)
    
    	Clay

    
    	Agree with all the comments re barrel length re powder burning
    	and pattern(no real effect) and sight plane and swing (real
        effect).  Other things to consider are weight, balance, and
    	manuverability.  For upland hunting I like to carry a side by side
    	20 guage with about a 26 inch barrel that is light overall, 
    	including the shells carry weight. Side by sides just seem to hang
    	better when walking.  For the blinds I use a Valmet O/U with only
    	24 inch barrels and screw in chokes. Easy to handle in tight	
    	quarters.  A gun I have just recently been using at sporting clays
    	and I believe would be a nice all-around alternative is the Beretta
    	302/303 with the 26 or 28 inch barrel with the screw in chokes.
    	Pretty light overall, no real recoil, and easy on the maintenance
    	for a autoloader.   If your in the GMA and would like to handle/try
    	these alternatives send me a note.

    
    	Thanks, but I reside in Colorado.
    
    	Clay