Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    I'll throw my 2cents in.
    
    
    I, though I do not hunt from a tree stand( because it scares the crap out
    me) honestly believe there is a direct advantage than hunting from the 
    ground. Most of a deer's danger comes from the ground, therefore that's
    where their looking and sniffing(though I feel movement is slightly
    higher on the list than scent).
    
    The problem here in ( N.H.,Maine) is that portable tree stands are
    manufactured for Southern hunting conditions. The tree stand is
    excellent in the warm month of hunting October when it's in the 50's
    or so, but if it rains or once the frost hits and the trees frezze the
    portable is just about useless and very un-stable.
    
    But, maybe if someone can make one that would hold a 6ft-3in 280lb man
    he would use one more often..until then it's the ground-stand.
    
    Rick
    

    Rick,
    
    I am 6'6" and 285 lbs.  I hunt off of a ladder stand, or tree stands
    that have been hammered into trees.  I saw one at the hunting show
    called "The Tree Lounge".  The thing that made this so interesting is
    that they had a 400 lb. slob sitting on this thing.  The guy was in
    this stand climbing up a metal pole with nothing for it to grip into.
    I understand from people that own this stand, that it is very stable,
    comfortable, and safe.  But most importan, it is $225.00.  That is why
    I hunt a $40 ladder stand.  It works just fine.  I just want to get
    about 10 feet off the ground.  But now I ask, Why?  I shoot my deer on
    the ground.
    
    bob
    

    RE:.2
    
    I want to be 10' up, but now i shoot them on the ground....  why?
    
    WHY??????!!!!!      Because you had a favorable wind!
    
    Too many people think they can just sit anywhere and the deer will run
    by cause their covered in scent... believe me it don't work that way.
    
    I use a Loggy Bayou and a Hang-On Lite and their terrific... especially
    when you bowhunting and need to get within 30 yards or less.  They make
    wind a less important issue.
    
    Fra
    

    
    	The lowest I'll sit in a treestand is about 15'.  If it's possible
    I'll sit up around 18-20'.  Any lower than 10-12' and you might as well 
    be on the ground!  10' in my book is definately not enough to realize
    the full advantage of a treestand.  I've had deer look up at me while
    I've been 18' off the ground, nestled between the limbs of a big pine.
    Of course, I was moving slightly the get the bow around so I could
    shoot it, but as it lifted it's head to look, I just froze.  It
    probably thought I was a squirrel or something, cause after only a few
    seconds, it went back to what it was doing.  I shot that deer while it
    was standing no further than 5 yds from the base of the tree I was in.
    That is definately a nice thing about treestands, they don't even 
    expect danger from above.
    	You'll look kinda funny to a deer while hanging 10' off the ground
    on a smooth tree in your "you-name-it" treestand, with no cover around. 
    Actually, it probably wouldn't matter if you were covered at that level
    anyway, the deer know what their woods are supposed to look like, and 
    that funny looking blob on the side of the tree just won't look right.
        
    - Rob
    
    

    
    I've never tried a tree stand, and never had the need. I've always
    taken deer from the ground with fair success. No scents, no grunts.
    
    This is just MY general thoughts on things, but I think I prefer the
    ground. I feel a little better down in the deer's domain. Not that the
    deer needs any more chance, but it seems a little more like hunting to
    me. Your in *his* element with *his* rules. Up in the tree, waiting for 
    bambi to walk by doesn't seem very challenging. I expect the deer *usually*
    wouldn't have a chance. Anyway that's just MHO. I've never tried them
    and have nothing against them. We all have our ways that suit us best!
    
    Best of luck for those of us who haven't had a chance to get out yet!!
    
    							/ Andrew /

    	Andrew,
    
    	Not using a tree stand is one's own choice based on one's own
    feelings so don't take this wrong. But MHO is that if one feels they
    won't use a tree stand because it takes them out of the deers
    enviroment and out of his rules then I suggest to hunt them with bare
    hands. A rifle, bow, spear, etc are all advantages by way of mans
    ability to think. So it's all part of the game.
    
    	I, like you, used to prefer the ground, Hell trees were put on earth
    for the fuzzy long tailed critters. Hmmm I wonder if you only hunt
    squirrels from a tree stand....  ;^) ;^) ;^)  and lots-of-em.
    
    	Good luck and hope you bag the biggest buck of your life this year so
    you can say TOLD_YOU_SO !!!           
    
    	Steve

    Rick,
    
    In regards to your statement:
    
    "I feel movement is slightly higher on the list than scent"
    
    I know this is your opinion, but I disagree... I've drawn on alot of
    deer which were watching and saw the movement, but didn't quite realize
    what it was that was in that tree or on the ground... I was heavily
    camo'd at the time, and they had no idea what I was.  All were
    obviously within bow range, some as close as 5-10'. Some actually came
    back within range after I released on another deer.
    
    On the flip side, I've been winded by deer which walked past me, they
    did not hesitate to go balistic once they crossed my scent which the
    wind was carrying.
    
    I think their sense of smell is much more important than their eyesight. 
    
    JMHO,  Fra

    
    Fra,
    
    I respect your opinion and agree that scent is important, movement to
    me is "slightly" (maybe equal) to scent. I've shot deer, had deer, so
    close, especialy in my younger days, my real training years of what
    deer will most likely do in the state of Vermont in the early 1970's.
    Remember when you would see 15-18 a day?
    
    I've shot them with the wind blowing from my back to them with a
    cigarette in my mouth, I've had them 5ft, while I was sweating up a
    storm after climbing a mountain.
    
    The wind in Northern New England constantly shifts in four different
    directions all day long, I never could understand how to determine wind
    direction for any length of time here in N.H.
    
    Besides, Back then I never used scents and did quite well of getting
    close to deer.
    
    Anyway, seems You and I have had different experience's and different
    opinions, and that's O.K., YES scent is an important aspect to "help"
    increase your odds and one should alway's consider it, but tress don't
    walk around either and one should pay attention to movement.
    
    You can dip youself in a bathtub of scent, have a deer standing 20yds
    away looking at you and you move, that movement will drive that deer
    right up a wall. Of which I've had the above happen with and with-out
    scent.
    
    Just one of those things I guess.
    
    BTW: Good Luck to ya this season!
    
    Rick
    
    
     P.S. When you heading Northbound ?
    

           I agree with the points made in .8 about scent vs. movement.
    In my opinion, if the deer spot movement then they won't even approach
    what they sense could be danger.
    
       I also agree that the wind is constantly changing direction in
    N.E. and if trying to stalk, I pay closer attention to my movements
    and noises that I make over trying to figure the wind direction
    -  Just my opinion 2 cents worth.
    
       QUESTION -  How many of you that use either portables or permanent
    
    tree stands, use them during gun season also - say first and last
    
    couple hours of the day?  Or do you use them for Archery only? WHY?
    
                        Thanks Jeff

    
    	I use both portable and permanent tree stands.  My permanent tree
    stands consist of a 2x8 in the crotch of a pine tree so that I can use
    the limbs to climb the tree.  I usually hunt a different part of the
    state during rifle season (lower deer densities), and these areas are
    very difficult to pattern deer in.  I've shot 3 deer from treestands
    during bow season where I need to be very close, and have tried them
    during rifle season but with no luck.  I would expect, however, that
    they would work well in an area where you could pattern some deer
    movement.
    	As an example, I put a treestand in before rifle season last year
    high up on a mountain in Central Vt. (~ 3000 ft level) where I had
    found some fairly consistant use.  I used cat-eyes to get there on the
    first day, and wouldn't you know it, a buck and a doe had gone through
    during the night ( there was a fresh blanket of snow on the ground
    from the night before, with a scrape 20 yds from my stand!). If I had
    been smart I would have just tried to track the deer.  The rest of the
    season saw no more consistant use of that area than any other.  It
    may be several days before they go through a particular area in this 
    type of forest.  For these reasons I'm going to basically bag the tree
    stand idea in this type of hunting setting;  I've tried this for the
    last several years with no luck.   I think there must be a better way
    to bag a big buck during the rut in November when you really can't 
    predict exactly where he'll be chasing does.
        	
    - Rob
    
    	

    RE:.9
    
    I agree somewhat, you don't want to be waving your arms around and
    twitching and in general being antsy...  but the slight movements
    of drawing a bow slowly or slowly shouldering a rifle will for the most
    part go unnoticed.
    
    When stalking, slow and steady wins the race...  but think about this 
    for a minute;  what good is the best stalk if the deer has already
    winded you???
    
    Everything comes into place, you have to get all the details right
    to have a successful hunt.
    
    Treestands for rifle???  I wouldn't go out of my way to tote one in
    with me, unless it was very dense and had incredible sign all around
    (read that; loads of scrapes and rubs).  This is probably the only
    time, i'd bother carrying one in.
    
    If there happened to be a permanent one in the area I was hunting, 
    i'd use it for the morning/afternoon hours, then pussytfoot around 
    midday.
    
    Treestands are not nearly as important during the rifle season as 
    they are during the archery season, unless as I stated previously,
    you were in a really dense area with lots of sign.
    
    Fra

    
        I like the Screaming Eagle tree stand from Echo Enterprises in
    Montana the best. It is more stable than any I've found. Also, here
    in the East, whitetails seem to be more tree stand wary each year. I
    prefer 18 to 20 feet up with a pine tree in back of me. If no pine
    available, I go with skyline camo. Always, I repeat, ALWAYS wear a
    safety strap (properly adjusted so you dont hang yourself) when in the
    stand. It lets me lean out when I need to while shooting and has kept
    me alive on more than one occasion when the wind shifted/gusted when
    I was unprepared. 
    
                                Good shooting
    
    
                                  Mike
    

Another satisfied Loggy Bayou user.

 So far this stand has lived up to all its claims. It's easy to tote around 
and can be used on whatever tree you want to be up in.

 Getting above the whips that border the swamps is important mainly because 
where I'm hunting that's where the deer are. It doesn't do any good to see 
the tops of the scrub moving if you can't see what's making them move.

 The tree stand lets you see what it is and if it's worth while to take or 
not.

 I watched 2 deer for over an hour last saturday that if I wasn't up in a 
tree I'd have never seen. Wish they'd have decided to mozey over my way but 
they didn't.... :-)  Stayed about 150-200 yards away and that's just a tad 
bit too far for a 12 ga slug gun. 

 Oh well,,, maybe this weekend... :-)


  Corky

I use(d), this year injury prevents use, a TSS stand that holds my 240lbs
pretty well, it's easy to set up (around 6-18" tree), not very heavy, and
gets me up high enough for not only the deer to not as readily detect my
motion but, whatI like is that I can see them a lot sooner. The area I
hunt in MA. are uasually pretty well laden with undergrowth limiting shots
to less than 20 yds and being up in the tree gives me the added advantage
of early sight (now that I can see them all I have to do is shoot one).

Good shooting to all!!

Jack

Ps. I only use it for bow

    i have a question about tree stands. has anyone ever built a stand made
    out of 2x4's and plywood. i'm handicap and can not use a regular tree
    stand so what i was thinking of is building one out of 2x4's and
    plywood. it would be about 10 feet high and with a safety rail around
    it i would paint it with camo paint so it would match the surrounding
    area. i would place it about 5 to 10 feet in from the the edge of the
    woods so i could see the field i'm hunting. should i wait and do this
    after the deer season is over in january so the deer can get use to it
    or can i do it now without bothering the deer around the area. if
    anyone has any ideas about building one i would like the information i
    know i should built in the tree but i can not climb any tree bacause
    i'm a amputee with a prosthetic and i can not climb except something
    like a ladder.

RE:<<< Note 831.15 by GULF::DESROSIERS >>>

 Hmmm, just a thought about using the Loggy Bayou climbing tree stand with the 
climbing aid. The effort needed to get up a tree is very minimal and I bet 
you could handle it.

 If your prosthetic is attached fairly firmly, that is, if slight upward 
lifting of your body won't pull you out of it, I'll bet you could use this tree 
stand.  The other consideration would be you need to be able to bend your 
knees a little bit to pull the stand up the tree with you. If your device 
allows this movement you got it made.

 The best part of using this stnad is it doesn't rot out and it isn't fixed
permanently to a tree. You can climb whatever tree you want to whenever you 
want to.

  Corky

    If you inevitably end up building one with lumber, stay away from
    plywood (the rodents love to chew on it to get at the glue)  Better
    to stick with 5/4" PT decking.  This way you'll never have to worry
    bout it rotting or being eaten out from under you.  
    
    The Loggy may be another option!
    
    good luck,  Fra
    
    

    do they sell the loggy bayou in most sporting stores? how wide is the
    platform thats were i have my biggest problem standing on the platform
    most of the one's i have looked at they are very small platforms. corky
    i use to work for tpl with jessie taylor in tech edit. i have been
    transferred to alabama.

RE:<<< Note 831.18 by GULF::DESROSIERS >>>
   
 The Loggy Bayou is made in Louisiana. Heck, that's just down the street from
you.. :-)

 The platform is about 18 inches wide by about 24 long. the slats are close
enough together that unless you got a Captn' Hook peg leg you should be all 
set and shouldn't have to worry about falling through. :-)

 It has a fairly comfortable chair built into it so until your butt goes to 
sleep and you need to stand up to get the blood flowing again,all you need to 
do is just sit there. 

 It will handle up to 350 lbs. 

 I'll try to remember to bring in the address for you so you can either write 
or call. They have a toll free questions line so you can call and ask them if 
you would be able to use it.

 Most sporting stores down that-a-way should have it. I understand it is a 
real popular stand down south.

>>	corky
>>    i use to work for tpl with jessie taylor in tech edit. i have been
>>    transferred to alabama.


  Hmmm, I can't remember your first name... :-) Last name rings a bell 
though.  I'm working in CSS now in the order admin area.. 

   Corky

RE: .18  The address:

  Loggy Bayou Inc.
  10397 LA. Hwy. 1
  Shreveport, LA 71115-9981

  (800)544-8733

  Good luck and let us know how you make out...


        Corky