Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    RE: .0
    
    Mark,
    
    Thanks for the info. I've never tried grouse but might give it a
    shot. Just a few questions. What size shot? (7 or smaller?) And
    what choke? (modified or improved?)
    
    Tom,    

    I use #7.5s in a Remington 870 (modified).  Not that this is the
    best or worst, but it's what I've been using.  I've gone as small
    as #6s as well, with equal success (shot many leaves :*)).
    
    Mark.

    
    RE:1
    
    Thunder-Chickens ??  Improved Cyl. for sure!!  I use my slug barrel,
    works great. Note the slug barrel has no choke its wide-open

    re:1
    
    See note 517.11
    
    I agree with 521.3 on his slug barrel.  Modern shells have shotcups
    that allow a cylinder bore to pattern beautifully.  With 7.5s in
    12 gauge either trap or field loads you should have no problem -
    6's ok too.
    
    BTW, Gough Thomas ( the English Gun Writer) believes that aproximately
    130 - 150 evenly distributed shot are needed to fill a 30 inch circle 
    at a given range
    to ensure a clean kill.  So, if your 30 yd pattern is a 30 inch
    circle (IC choke, no?) you need aprox. 150 pellets (of killing energy)
    to cleanly kill a grouse.  7.5's in a slug barrel fulfill this
    requirement.
    
    Any discussion? 

I agree with Bill that cylinder bore is good for grouse hunting (unless
they are flushing wild).  Believe it or not, I seem to be most effective
on grouse and woodcock with my 12 Gauge Side by Side MUZZLELOADER.  This
gun is cylinder bore, and the shot (7.5) just sits on top of a fiber 
over-powder wad and under a thin cardboard over-shot wad (keeps shot from
rolling out.  That gun and lack of shot-cup really spreads the shot out, 
and has a max effective range of about 25 yards.  

With a black powder gun, it's best to hunt with a partner - you need 
someone who can spot whether you hit the bird or not as your view is 
obstructed by a white cloud of smoke.  

When the weather is wet (not conducive to black powder hunting), I use a 
Citori 20Ga O/U in Imp.Cyl/Mod.

Last weekend, I had a chance to observe a grouse up close.  I was deer
hunting (archery) in full camo and moving slowly through wet woods.  I
heard wings and looked up just in time to spot a grouse landing in
a cherry tree about 8 yards away.  The tree was about 3" in diameter,
and had a bend about 10' up so that the bird was standing on a horizontal
piece of the trunk.  I froze and watched - I think the bird must have
had some idea I was around, because it was looking in my direction.
After about 30 seconds, the bird begain to move its head all around - up,
right, left, stretch, duck - like it was thinking "Where the **** is
he?"  Then it started to pace up and down the trunk, looking, and emitting
a few clucks.  The activity got more and more intense and finally it 
flushed.  Grouse like to know exactly where you are so they can fly
a pattern that will put the most foliage between you and them.

- Dave

    
    Is anyone aware of any literature on grouse (partridge in these parts)
    behavior, etc?  I would like to find out more about these birds.  I
    have been baffled by their movements more than once.  I have seen them
    in a particular location all summer long, only to find them gone on
    opening day.  I have seen them littered across a mountainside and then
    when there is an inch of snow on the ground, they're gone.  Some years
    it seems like you have to kick them to get them to flush, and other
    years they flush so far ahead that you never get a glimpse.
    
    I guess thats why they are so interesting (other than the fact that
    they are the best tasting wild game on the continent, IMO)!

    Re. Best-tasting wild game.  If not for my preference to venison,
    I'd agree wholeheartedly.
    
    Mark.

    Mark definately hit the right ideas in the base note...
    
    An old Maine Guide once told me a few things about "Pahtrige".
    
    	1) When flushed they will fly about 90 feet then back right
    	   at about a 90 degree angle. They will more often than not
    	   fly about 20 feet right and land. I have flushed many birds
    	   that behaved exactly like this. I walk to where I think
    	   the bird may have landed and shot many of them while they
    	   were catching their breath.
    
    	2) They will ALWAYS, and I don't know how they do it, keep a huge
    	   tree or brush pile betweem you and them. I can remember many
    	   times swinging around, gun ready, only to bump the barrel into
    	   a tree...What a bust.
    
    Last year on opening day of deer season I spooked a bird in a water
    hole that had grown in the middle of a cut down. The damn bird about 
    gave me a heart attach. Well as soon as my heart stopped scaring every
    deer around, another bird flushed, then another. Within 2 minutes,
    ELEVEN different birds took off from this one water hole...When deer
    hunting I carry a 357 with 38 special wad cutters for birds..It is
    VERY hard to hit a moving bird with a pistol...
    
    As for great tasting, Grouse are great. I have a recipe for Partridge
    Mornay..Fantastic..
    
    	Four Partridge Breasts
    	1/2 stick of butter
    	1 cup flour
    	Salt & Pepper
    	1 Can Cream of Mushroom Soup
    	1 lb shredded chedder (the sharper the better)
    
    	Roll the breasts in the flour, salt and pepper. Sautee the floured
    	breasts in butter about 5 minutes on each side. Place the breasts
    	in a 9x13 deep baking dish. Pour the soup over the breasts. Make
    	sure you cover each breast. Spread the cheese over the top. Bake
    	at 350 for 30 minutes...
    
    	I like to serve this with a wild rice pilaf. Far East is a good
    	one or make your own.
    
    Enjoy..
    
    Jim
    

    >>>  They will ALWAYS, and I don't know how they do it, keep a huge
    >>>  tree or brush pile you and them.
    
    
    Birds, like fish, have incredible vision behind them.  This is
    because their eyes are on the sides of their heads.  Wouldn't it
    be great if we had little built in rear view mirrors?
    
    All they have to do is look backwards and get that tree between
    themselves and you.  Maybe that explains why I've seen them fly into 
    trees.  They're watching where they've been instead of where they
    are going.
    
    

    My first rule of grouse hunting is SHOOT FAST.

    Grouse can reach 40 mph almost immediately after leaving the ground.
    Couple their speed and smarts with heavy cover and the window of
    opportunity is less than two seconds.
    
    Doug

    I guess I'll have to enter our (Eastern Oregon) type of hunting,
    because it still looks like we're talking about some different type
    of birds here.
    
    We hunt mostly blue grouse.  They come out on bare ridges in the
    evening and when the sun comes our they feed on the grasshoppers.
    As the day wears on they "graze" down in the draws to get water
    and feed on "grouse berries". (I know this because I've looked in
    their craw to see their feeding habits.)
    
    We go at the crack of dawn to be out on the ridges at daybreak.
    We do most of our hunting in 4wd's til we spot birds.  This is usually
    done by driving down a ridge and glassing and area to spot them
    out feeding.  When spotted we plan a hunt - surround the flock -
    and go for it.  I should point out this is the plan, not necessarily
    the execution.
    
    As was pointed out, they flush fast, fly fast, and usually head
    for the deepest canyon around.  In fact, I've pulled up from shooting
    because the bird was out over a canyon I didn't feel like climbing
    down and back up.  
    
    As for dogs,  they are not worth the effort in hunting, but have
    done farely well in retrieving.  Some of my friends have brought
    their prize hunting dogs out and they usually end up with burrs,
    bloody feet, and severe dehydration.
    
    The birds are about the size of chickens and we use #5's & 6's.
    I personally use a 12 ga. Browning auto and bring lots of shells.
    We have had good luck - limiting every day and being back at the
    cabin by 10 o.clock.
    
    If we hunt during the day, we usually go for ruffed grouse, which
    spend more time in the timber and are a much smaller bird.  We have
    less success, use a smaller shot and walk more miles.
    
    Ken

    Ruffed Grouse are the official name here in Maine. They also have
    a Spruce Grouse which are illegal to hunt..Personally, I can't
    tell the difference...
    
    The Ruffed Grouse, or Partridge, weigh between 2 and 3 pounds when
    fully grown. The only good eating is the breast. The legs to not be
    very meaty and the wings are tougher than show leather...
    
    I'm told the North American Rough Grouse has a range that covers most
    of the US and southern Canada...So your Grouse is the same as we have
    only they probably have adapted to the specific area they live in.
    
    Either way, they are great fun to hunt.
    
    Jim
    

    Spruce grouse will let you walk on past and very rarely flush (in
    my limited experience).  Also, they are primarily tree roosters.
    
    Mark.