Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    You should be using Improved Cylinder for shooting slugs.  I don't
    know what effect a choke has on the slug or its' performance but
    you will ruin a choke if you shoot slugs through it.
    
    

    I had always thought, but could be wrong, that modified and improved
    were okay to use for slugs but a full choke would be ruined by a
    slug. Also i believe it just came on the market, is a rifled choke
    for slugs. That is if you have interchangeable chokes on your shot
    gun. There are also rifled slug barrels made by hastings.
    							Bret

    Bret,
        The rifled choke idea sounds interesting. Do you know where
    you saw it, and do you know if it comes in a Rem choke?
    
    Jamie

    Rifled chokes for slugs?   Never heard of them.  Any additional
    information?

    I think I saw it in North American Hunter or American Hunter.
    I think they come in Winchester, Remington and Mossberg. I am
    not sure about the others. It looks a little longer than the
    usual chokes. Supposed add quite a bit of accuracy to a slug. 
    I will try and find it and print the article here. I think one 
    of the magazines I mentioned gave it a field test and liked it.
    I bet it would be alot cheaper than going out and buying a
    whole new barrel for the rifling.
    							Bret

    
    One of the distributors I use shows it in thier flyer. It is a screw-
    in type choke, and from the looks of the picture it may extend the
    barrel length. The ad doesn't say who makes it, all they advertise
    is specify make of gun. Most likely it will retail for between $30-
    35 dollars.
    
                                                   Guy

    Rrinted without permission from North American Hunter, issue January,
    February issue;
         Serious shotgun hunters can improve the accuracy of their shooting
    by as much as four times with the new high tech Sniper Rifled Choke
    Tube from Cation Corporation.
    	 The key to increased acfruacy is in the "rifling" of the Sniper
    Choke Tube. The rifled grooves stabalize slugs, thereby providing
    improved accuracy for big game hunting and for target and silhouette
    shooting.
    	 Sniper Rifled Choke Tubes are available for all 12 guage shotguns
    equipped for choke tubes. Just screw it into the threaded opening.
    They are made from high quality stainless steel and have a black
    oxide coating. For further information write;
    				Cation Corporation
    				Dept. NAH
    				99 Ridgeland Road
    				Rochester, NY   14623
    
    
    
    
    I wonder how a 20 guage or a .410 would do with Sabots? I wonder
    about 12 guage?
    							Bret

             VELOCITY AND ENERGY FOR RIFLED SLUGS

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
               FEET PER SECOND              FOOT POUNDS OF ENERGY
    GAUGE  WT   25     50     100      MUZZLE    25     50     100
           OZ   YDS    YDS    YDS                YDS    YDS    YDS
    
    12    1.25  1560   1285   ---        2950    ---    1980   ---
    12    1     1365   1175   950        2485    1810   1340   875
    16    7/8   1365   1175   950        2175    1585   1175   765
    20    5/8   1365   1175   950        1555    1130    840   550
    28    1/2   1365   1175   950        1245     905    670   440
    .410  1/5   1560   1335  1025         650     475    345   205
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I might be making a big assumption; that being that slugs are for
    mid/large size game.  With that assumption in mind, I thought the 
    above table may be helpful in matching the right gun for the
    appropriate application.  
    
    I'm sure a .410 would kill a deer size animal if you could get close
    enough but you'd probably be better off using a bow.
    
    Dave

    	Dave,
      I would much rather use a bow myself, but with all these rifled
    barrells and chokes around and the claims they make, I am kind of
    interested to see how accurate they are. The Trophy Mossberg with
    BRI Sabot slugs is supposed to be quite accurate to a hundred yards.
    I think they claim 3 inch groups ata hundred yards. A rifle definately
    does better in my mind. I am just curious though anyhow.
    							Bret

    
    
    
    	Do these chokes have any legal restrictions in states(mass)
    that restrict the use of rifled barrels?
    
    
    		Chuck
    

    I was always under the impression that a shotgun slug (in any
    given gauge) is sized a few thousandths smaller than the
    tightest choke available in that gauge.......think of the
    product liability the ammunition manufacturers would face if using
    their product blew up or ruined your gun! So, you can shoot
    slugs through a full choke. (I did hear that you couldn't shoot
    *steel shot* through a full choke, but thats another issue).
    
    What that means essestially is that in any given barrel, regardless
    of choke, the slug is wobbling down the bore after being fired.
    The folks making rifled slug barrels are playing around with 
    diameters to get those tight groups.....but I am willing to bet
    they are making the ID of the barrel smaller or something like
    that.......in any case, a tighter fit of slug to barrel is
    necessary to improve accuracy, especially if the rifling is to
    do any good (at shotgun velocities especially).
    
    That choke thing in the last few replies sounds like snake oil
    to me :-)
    
    DAP
      

    I doubt it would be legal in Mass. but I don't know. I had thought
    that any rifling in Mass. is illegal. .11 They are using plastic
    sabots around the slug to make that tight fit. The barrell is not
    changing other than rifling being added. Same ID. THe sabot drops
    off after leaving the barrell.
    							Bret

	RE: .11
    
    	Your right the slug is smaller than the full choke. However
    when the gun is fired the slug actually grows in diameter!! the
    base of the slug begins to move before the nose, hense the slug
    grows in diameter and shrinks in length. When the slug reaches the
    choke it is in fact larger than the choke. The so called rifling
    is used to allow the slug to be compressed down by the choke with
    out damage to the gun. The ridges are compressed into the groves.
    Much to the beleif of many the slug does not spin as it leaves the
    barrel. That is not the purpose of the "rifling" but rather is a
    means of allowing compression of the lead.
    
    	This info is recalled from one of the sporting mags.. I can't
    for the life of me remember which one or the date but I think it
    was the American Hunter. If I can find it I'll pass alone the info.
    
    	Steve The_forgetful_one_on_mag_titles  
    
    	Hmmmmmmmmmm Did I just open a pandoras box?? The base moves
    before the nose of the slug???    
    
    	CRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKK
    	

	Got a cataloge from Gander Mountain yesterday.  They list 
	rifled barrels for shotguns made by Hastings.  List them
	for 870's, 1100's, Browning's, and some others.  Made from
	4130 chromemoly.  Can be had with sights or scope mounts.
	Costs range from $150 to $190 depending.  The rifling is
	6 lands and grooves and 1 in 34" twist.

    re: 10
    
    it is definitely illegal in Mass.
    
    
    Guy

    
     Hi Everyone,
    
      I recently purchased a new (to new) 11/87 with a 20 1/2" slug barrel,
     for use in the comming deer season. The barrel is not rifled. I
     all set to get to the range and start sighting this new toy of mine
     in. I would like to get peoples opinions on the types of slugs they
     use and why. This shotgun is chanbered in 2 3/4 and 3".  It is my
     understanding that I should be looking for riffled slugs and not
     the sabbot rounds because the barrel is not rifled.
    
      I'll be hunting mostly Mass with this gun, and it will also serve 
     as backup for my annual Maine hunt. I therefore expect that I'll be
     sighting in most likly at 50 yds.
    
      soooooo whatcha using for slugs out there? and Why?
    
     Thanks
    
      Mike
    
    

Mike,

i've tried several brands in the past, all with average results, but have
had my best accuracy using Federal rifled slugs. (2-3" groups at 100 yards)

Remington Sluggers worked good (4-6" avg group @ 100 yds)

Breneeke rifled slugs	about the same as the sluggers

Federal Sabots showed horrible results. definately made for rifled barrels.
these were the copper hourglass shaped slugs with the plastic sabot.

I use a mossberg shotgun with a slug barrel and a 4x fixed scope, FWIW

Good Luck,  Fra

    Hi Fra,
    
       Thanks for the tips! I'm sure you saved me alot of time and $$!
    I just happened to get a flyer from Walmart yesterday and Fedral
    rifled Slugs are on sale for $1.90/box. On your advise I'll most
    likely sight in with the Fedrals.
    
    In your tests did you happen to try any 3" slugs? Do you think
    the mags are worth the extra $$ and punishment your shoulder will
    mostlikly take?
    
    Again thx for the info.
    
    Mike
    
    

I was reading an article on slugs last year in one of the shooting magazines,
I think it may have been Petersons Hunting...  The author, stated something
to the effect that, for the most part the mags were not much better... forgot 
jist of the article.  But it left be believing i'd be wasting money going with 
the mags... Anyone else remember the article i'm talking about??

let me know how you make out...

Fra

    
    
      Fra,
    
       I have shot both the 2 3/4" and 3" mags and I have found that the 3"
    mags throw very poor groups out of my slug gun, I figured I would try 1
    box of the 3" mags, and wasnt pleased with the results so I now
    exclusively use the 2 3/4" slug shells.
       Although the recoil doesnt bother me there was definatly a
    difference in the amount of recoil, and in my honest opinion the
    3" mags with the added recoil and poor grouping doesnt stand as a #1
    pick for me.
    
    
                                                   Lee
    p.s. all I can say is try it once and make a decision from there.
    

Lee,

got my gun shooting terrific, and as they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
i'm getting exceptional accuracy, the gun is shooting better than i'm capable, 
and thats just fine with me.

looking forward to the Quabbin this year... ;^) hardwick segment 1  yahoo!!
heading up to VT tomorrow...  can't wait!!!  good luck to all!!

Fra