Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Bob,
    
    
                 ......BAD JEANS...........
    
    
    
    
        jeff

    
    
    
    	What causes non-typical antlers is damage such as a cut, when
    the antlers are in velvet. To make it simple, the new antlers
    "remember"	the configuration of the last years set, but where ever
    the damage was (during velvet) done, a new tine grows.
    
    	Steve

    re:3
    
    
         Geeze....i guess the game biologist i talked to was wrong????
    
     I would like to hear any other " facts " about this issue!!!!!
    
    
    
              jeff

        I SHOT A BUCK IN 1985 THAT WEIGHED 241LBS DRESSED OUT AND UPON
    KILLING IT I WALKED UP TO THE DEER AND ONE ANTLER WAS MISSING, I
    WAS STUNNED. IT WAS ALL BLOODY WHERE THE ANTLER HAD FALLEN OFF,
    UPON BACK TRACKING IN THE SNOW I FOUND THE ANTLER ON THE GROUND
    WHERE HE HAD HIT AN ALDER TREE AFTER I HAD SHOT HIM IN A SNOWSTORM,
    RETURNING TO THE BUCK I PROCEEDED TO DRAG HIM AND THE OTHER ANTLER
    CAME OFF. IF IT WASN'T FOR THE TWO BLOODY BURRS STICKING OUT HE
    LOOKED LIKE A HUGE DOE. UPON INSPECTING THE DEER THE LOCAL WARDEN
    TOLD ME THAT BECAUSE IT AHD BEEN DOWN BELOW ZERO FOR SEVERAL DAYS
    IT KILLS THE BLOOD CELLS IN THE ANTLERS AND THE FALL OFF EARLY,
    THIS MADE SENSE. IT WAS ALSO ONLY NOVEMBER UP IN MAINE.
      TO ANSWER YOUR OTHER QUESTION ABOPUT NON TYPICAL DEER, A NON TUPICAL
    RACK IS STARTED BY THE DEER RECEIVING AN INJURY TO THE OPPOSITE
    SIDE IN WHICH THE NON TYP[ICAL ANTLER IS FORMED, OR IF HE IS INJURED
    BAD ENOUGH IN THE NECK BOTH ANTLERS GROW OUT NON TYPICALLY, THIS
    IS CARRIED THROUGHOUT THE DEERS LIFE UNTIL HE DIES AND HE ALSO CAN
    PASS ON THESE GENES THROUGH HIS BREEDING. I HAVE WITNESSED THIS
    SEVERAL TIMES ON NON TYPICALS AFTER SKINNING THEM OUT FINDING OLD
    WOUNDS ON THE DEER EITHER FROM FIGHTING, CAR ACCIDENTS OR BULLET
    WOUNDS.
                                                        RICK L.

    
    From my biology days...
    
    Genes are a part of the chromosome that have an influence on hereditary
    makeup.  My question is can the gene change because of an injury?
    I can understand how genes can give the basic form of the antler,
    but carry an injury through a gene???  It doesn't seem logical to
    me.  Maybe I am thinking too much in human genetics...animals certainly
    are different.  I guess if the injury is equated to disease than
    I can see how the mutation can be genetic.
    
    Kevin

    I had always thought that the food supply might also have an effect
    on antlers, age, and possibly injury too.

       A hunter in our group killed a 161 pound buck while muzzleloading
    in Mass a couple of years ago.  Both antlers had already fallen
    off, leaving two bloody depressions in the skull.  As far as
    non-typical goes we took a NH deer this muzzleloading season that
    had somewhat of a non-typical rack in that a couple of the tines
    took the shape of human ears.  When we checked it in we were told
    that the deer was 8.5 or 9.5 years old and that it was normal for
    old deer to produce odd/non-typical antlers.  (the deer only weighed
    148 but it was obvious that its frame once carried much more weight...
    the teeth were also worn down to nubs).  I've read in magazines
    that non-typical growth was caused through genetics and I've also
    read that abnormal antler development on one side of the deer was
    caused by an injury to the opposite side of the body.  I don't know
    if the two can be related .... I'll ask my Rue III book "Deer of
    North America" and see if theres a link.

    I shot a nice 6 pt elk a couple of years ago.  The right side was
    normal but the left side had tines that went odd ball directions
    (down, back, etc.)  When I went to pick up the meat, the butcher
    complained about a saw blade he broke on an arrow head.  It was
    lodged in the right shoulder bone.  It had been in over a year -
    probably the previous years archery season - according to the butcher.
    
    Ken